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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

FR
While we are not an M/s dynamic, I don't think I could do what we do if they did not love me. I need to know I m loved if I am going to make myself as vulnerable (physically, emotionally, and mentally) as I do.

I have also a rather long history of being a fucktoy without there being any emotional connection, and I found it demoralizing, dehumanizing, and very bad for my self-esteem, it very nearly destroyed me. So yeah, I need to know I am loved, that I m precious to them, that I matter and that they care deeply for me, that they will do their best to indulge my dark places and yet protect me. That they will still want me even after I do some of the shit I do.

Now, that being said, I can understand, I think, where tamaka and Ishtar's slave are coming from, the idea of serving somebody who does not care for me, someone who does not value me other than for how I can serve/please them is terribly appealing to me, but that sort of objectified dynamic is not something I can do again. I am not strong enough, and am far to insecure to do so.

I really appreciate your honesty. Thanks!

ETA: Last Sunday, I hugely misunderstimated how much (unrealistic) hunger for connection I'd brought to a casual play date, and discovering that made for a very rough week.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Now, that being said, I can understand, I think, where tamaka and Ishtar's slave are coming from, the idea of serving somebody who does not care for me, someone who does not value me other than for how I can serve/please them is terribly appealing to me, but that sort of objectified dynamic

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Now, that being said, I can understand, I think, where tamaka and Ishtar's slave are coming from, the idea of serving somebody who does not care for me, someone who does not value me other than for how I can serve/please them is terribly appealing to me, but that sort of objectified dynamic

Just to be clear:

I never said that I don't care for my slave. Nor that I don't value her.

I care for her a great deal. I value her a lot. I think she's an amazing person and I'm very fond of her.
If she would ever reach the point where slavery (at least slavery as it's defined in this house) wouldn't suit her anymore, I would hope that our dynamic could transform into something else (more equal partnership), or if that wouldn't work I'd hope we could at least stay close friends.

But for all the care I have for her, I don't love her, and I don't love her precisely because she's my slave. The qualities I need in a partner in order to love them are things she cannot offer me in the slavery she's kept. For me to love her would be a far too one-sided relationship, and she wouldn't be able to fulfill the emotional needs I have from a romantic partner. Thus, I don't see her as 'romantic love partner' potential, and so I haven't fallen in love with her, despite caring quite deeply for her.

In a sense you could say that I objectify her, because I do very much see her as nothing more or less than property, but if you from there jump to the conclusion that it means I'm emotionally left cold about her you'd be incorrect. My dog and my cat are my property as well, and are 'objectified' as my property, and yet I care very deeply for them despite their status as my property.

My emotions towards my slave girl are very similar than those I've got for my dog. They're different than what I feel for my dog, because my slave is human, but they're of a generally similar type. In a sense you could even call what I feel for my slave a kind of love (I dislike how easy it is in English to say you 'love' stuff though... I certainly don't love ice cream the way I love my dog, or love my husband... Dutch makes making distinctions between those kinds of 'loves' much easier), but even so, what I feel for her is definitely not romantic love, and doesn't come close to how I feel about my husband. But then again, she doesn't offer me anything near to the things my husband offers me as my partner either, so I don't see how I could love her the way I do him. If she did offer me those things, I might feel quite different about her than I currently do. But if that was the case, she also wouldn't be my slave anymore -as slavery is defined in this house.

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I never said that I don't care for my slave. Nor that I don't value her.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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I never said that I don't care for my slave. Nor that I don't value her.

I didn't mean to imply that, that's why I said I think I can see where they are coming from, because of that particular fucked up fantasy of mine, I can see the appeal of not being loved. I'm just not able to do it, nor could I be a slave as defined in your household.
I do not have the strength and my sense of self-worth is far too fragile to do what I do without being loved. Their love allows me to indulge my twisted side without falling back into the dark place I used to be in.

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Yeah I wasn't feeling you were accusing me of anything, just clarifying.

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Paradoxically, it's precisely because she lacks self-worth and is too fragile that she feels more secure not being loved.

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ORIGINAL: MasterSpiritual
I believe to really place the collar in the correct place, she must feel like there is no quality of life without you in her life.

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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

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ORIGINAL: MasterSpiritual
I believe to really place the collar in the correct place, she must feel like there is no quality of life without you in her life.

I disagree with this statement. A relationship shouldn't be the reason you have quality of life. You should be a whole person whether you are in or out of a relationship.

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

I don't think that it's so much that the person is actually valueless, as it is that they don't really feel their best value... their best self... unless they are in service to their Master. I think he is probably seeking a submissive who truly feels deeply this way, and if she is not in service to someone everything else about her, while perhaps having value, is not allowing her to express her best self/value. There are submissives who truly are this way deep down at their core.

Relating this to quality of life... how limited is the quality of life if one is unable to express the best version of themself? It's always going to be lacking something extremely important.

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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

I don't think that it's so much that the person is actually valueless, as it is that they don't really feel their best value... their best self... unless they are in service to their Master. I think he is probably seeking a submissive who truly feels deeply this way, and if she is not in service to someone everything else about her, while perhaps having value, is not allowing her to express her best self/value. There are submissives who truly are this way deep down at their core.

Relating this to quality of life... how limited is the quality of life if one is unable to express the best version of themself? It's always going to be lacking something extremely important.

Which is pretty much the definition of "Co-Dependent Relationship".

And the OP literally said "NO quality of life".

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ORIGINAL: tamaka


Perhaps it is co- dependent but if that's what you are... a servant... than i guess you are dependent one someone to serve. Teachers are codependent on students, nurses/doctors on patients, etc.

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Which is pretty much the definition of "Co-Dependent Relationship".

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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Which is pretty much the definition of "Co-Dependent Relationship".

That can be said of almost any D/s type relationship, especially if S&M is an aspect of it.

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If you need a relationship for a purpose in life, there's something wrong.

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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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Which is pretty much the definition of "Co-Dependent Relationship".

That can be said of almost any D/s type relationship, especially if S&M is an aspect of it.

I disagree. I'm not talking about being an enabler in a relationship. I'm talking about those that essentially are addicted to relationships, can't function without one and use those relationships to hide from the issues in their lives.

If you need a relationship for a purpose in life, there's something wrong.