jlf1961
Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
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IF the NRA was as powerful as many claim, you would be able to get a gun at the local 7-11, and there are worse pro gun groups around than the NRA.
But, I find it funny as hell when the GOP lawmakers are condemned for stopping any gun legislation, while liberal support of those Dem lawmakers who fight any legislation that would actually make it possible for certain people to be prevented from purchasing guns in the first place, in the name of the right to privacy.
When a liberal screams that back ground checks dont work, I will agree with them, but then add the caveat that if every law enforcement agency, state and county magistrate court, and mental health care provider were required to report to the National Crime Information Service any information that would put a person in one of the prohibited categories effectively making it impossible to purchase a firearm, I get:
It would cost money the states and counties dont have.
My response is: How, the clerks have to input the information into their own computer records, all it would add is a command to send that to the damn data base, how much more would that cost in labor? 5 cents?
It is an invasion of privacy for a person's mental health status to become accessible by anyone with access to that system.
The only people that access that system are law enforcement and gun dealers, so, we dont want them to have guns, but we are not going to make it impossible to buy guns, AND lets also not put information in a data base that might clue some officer that answers a call on the individual that they have a mental or emotional condition that might need some specialized handling, so when the cop shows up, they dont fall back to their training on threats to safety and blow the fucker away?
Hey, you folks remember the recent incidents where cops have killed mentally and emotionally unstable individuals and it came out later they had been under treatment?
And people have screamed that cops need better training in dealing with those types of individuals?
Gee, what would have happened if the cop in question had a heads up that the suspect was being treated for a mental or emotional issue and for whatever reason, went off the deep end?
Could that have prevented the suspect from getting shot?
Lets take one example, Seung-Hui Cho and Virginia Tech.
Total dead 32
Wounded 17
Cho had been diagnosed and treated for a couple of severe mental health issues, but because of Federal Privacy laws, not only did Virginia Tech not know, but his name was not flagged on the National Crime Information Service database (you know the thing they use for back ground checks to keep crazy people from buying guns) so even though he was treated for them, he could buy guns...
And he did, and used them on his fellow students.
Well, the state of Virginia closed the loophole in their own laws that allowed for him to not be reported, and low and behold in 2008, George W. Bush, president, Republican, and avid gun enthusiast, signed a bill that strengthened the NICS requirements concerning people with mental health issues be reported....
Well, it still left one big hole in the problem, the part that would have made the reporting mandatory at all levels of government from city up was watered down, leaving it to the states to decide.
Oh there were sound arguments, Federal dictating to states what they have to do (state's rights,) privacy issues (oops, wasnt it the privacy consideration that allowed this nut case to buy a couple of guns and kill some folks?) and cost.
Yes a couple of republicans agreed with these arguments, but it was a lot more dems that were raising hell about it (Dems still seem to be stuck on state's rights while creating more federal agencies.)
So, while the NCIS rules were strengthened, the participation in the system is still voluntary.
And the NRA supported the stronger version of the bill, I mean hell, crazy people shooting folks makes them look bad, makes all gun owners look bad and they want more people to buy guns and no one to complain about it....
So, once more (and no one on the anti gun or more gun restriction side is going to answer, they never do) how in the fuck are new gun ownership regulations going to work if the key part of ANY gun regulation still has voluntary participation?
How is a gun retailer going to know if someone is prohibited from purchase if the information is not there?
Does the retailer need to hire a shrink to screen all potential gun buyers prior to running the back ground check?
Or is the retailer supposed to be psychic?
Hell, the libs supported new laws making it harder to forge ID's, hence the 3d bar code on the back of the dang things, and the week wait while the state sends you your new ID with all the new stuff on it because it is too expensive to have the equipment in the smaller offices to print the damn thing where you got it.
Hell the NRA supported the stricter NCIS bill, and they have repeatedly said they support making participation mandatory for all jurisdictions, which would help keep prohibited people from buying guns (Real fucking evil of them.)
Hell, the NRA has even stated they support automatic registration at point of purchase, which would make the fact retailers have to keep a record of all gun sales and who bought the damn things make sense, I mean shit, a room full of boxes with the damn hard copies of the ATF paperwork is a fucking fire hazard, seriously. Even the NRA thinks it makes more sense to keep 5 years worth of sales records IF the information was transmitted to the ATF at point of sale. One local shop is paying for 3 storage units to store their entire gun sales history so they are following the fucking regulations just in case someone needs the information.
However, the liberal more gun regulations groups wants every firearm to be registered with law enforcement, so the guy buying the gun has to fill out the same fucking paperwork twice, once when they buy the gun, once again with local law enforcement, and again if they move to a different state. Information that is already collecting dust in some back room because to keep their dealer licenses, the retailers have to store all that fucking paperwork until they go out of business or it disintegrates due to the age of the paper.
But the answer is always more regulations because the present ones dont work.
The simple fact is that the present ones dont work because they cant work with the way the fucking system is, and every gun owner knows it.
The NRA knows it.
The ATF knows it.
The cops knows it.
Everyone that deals with firearms on a daily basis knows it.
Everyone with an ounce of common sense knows it.
Everyone except those idiots screaming for tougher gun laws, that will cost millions if passed to print, and still wont work for the same fucking reasons the ones we have now dont work.
And because they dont work is the very reason some of the people are screaming for a complete ban of private gun ownership.
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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?
You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.
Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
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RE: The original arguments FOR the second amendment - 
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For what it's worth, I'm kinda familiar with ToS. If you're actually inviting me to post this stuff, I'm relieved of infractions. (I know you're really desperate to have the sliver of hope that people will call you, but posting that crud on the internet isn't the way to do it.) 
). I could have been at that gig - I have pretty eclectic musical tastes and, were I to visit the USA, I'd say 'yes' to an invite to some good old country stuff were my host to suggest it. An intensive dose of 'Americana' in a night? Yes, I'd be up for that. However if I'd got shot and killed at said venue, I *know* what my family and friends would have said, here in England: "What the fuck was he doing? You go to the USA, you risk being on the arse end of some American fruitcake who loves shooting his gun too much." 
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