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Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 3:34:16 PM

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is it possible to clearly make a definition between a submissive and a slave. Regardless of Oxfords or other dictionaries, is there clearly a defining mark and/or line between the two.

i clearly define myself as submissive as i have a very submissive personality with the right Other. But it is not wavering on the ideas in my mind of what a slave is...... clearly in my own mind there is definition.

However in stating the above, i get overwhelmed when speaking to said Dom's whom have little hesitation to insist that i will become their slave, regardless of the insistence from me that that will not happen. i know myself well enough that i know when and where my freedoms lie, and these freedoms tread quite far from a true slaves life.

Or perhaps it is a whole spectrum of misinterpretation evolving from so much convoluted crap on line and out there that is even confusing the said Dom types that there no longer exists a clear image between a submissives heart and slaves heart.

Although the line might be drawn as very fine between the both, i am not swayed to believing that these roles are interchangeable as and when we see fit to suit the flavour of the day (be it vanilla or otherwise j/k).

As always, any and all feedback will be respected.

RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 3:37:55 PM

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A slave submits, so by nature is submissive. I think we get caught up in words too much. Thinking about differentiation, there are many submissive women in vanilla type relationships, so perhaps the defining factor for the word *slave* is that it is a submissive person within a conscious bdsm relationship. That definition works for me

< Message edited by slavejali -- 4/22/2006 3:39:50 PM >

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 3:38:14 PM

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Personally, I think that the only clearly defining mark that should be made is in what each individual perceives a word to mean for them and them alone.

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 3:40:57 PM

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http://www.collarchat.com/m_192079/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csubmissive%252Clinks/tm.htm#192118

Links on submissive vs slave discussions

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 3:42:12 PM

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I also think we get too caught up in semantics. But I sympathize. Some Masters/Doms insist on using the term slave. I tend to stay away from them. To me, that signals that they want to set your limits or make sure you don't have any. With the right Master, I think the difference between a sub and a slave is just about non existent.

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 3:46:12 PM

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Being a submissive doesnt equate to anything.

No two submissives are the same unless making a conscious descision to do so.

Being Dom/me does not equate to anything either.

There is no such definitons here. You are who you are, and thats it.
You have no guideline to fit into, except that of your partner. Whatever the situation be.

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 3:51:22 PM

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quote:

Does submission = slave

No.

quote:

With the right Master, I think the difference between a sub and a slave is just about non existent.

I disagree bandit25

quote:

i clearly define myself as submissive as i have a very submissive personality with the right Other

then you are a sub. however desiring to submit or being forced to submit does not make you a slave, only a submissive or a person being forced to submit. There are many differances in a submissive and a slave. Instint being the first sign to most who are slaves that inheirently subjudicant to most any who show signs of Dominance whereas a sub would not take such a stance but only as you have discribed only submit to that one * Other *.

quote:

KarbonCopy

I would like to disagree with You on principle however it will have to be another day as I just want to look at You today and admire that redness about You. JMO

< Message edited by MistressDREAD -- 4/22/2006 3:54:41 PM >

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 3:52:55 PM

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I was just thinking about something, I wonder if why so many american woman need to classify themselves as submissive or slave because of Americas past history of slavery. The society itself has a distasteful view of what a slave is. Being australian, I have no bad association with the word *slave*. It's neat and cool to me.

Anyways, just a thought, some people get so passionate about not being a *slave* and I just wonder why sometimes...

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 3:54:44 PM

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They are not interchangeable. There is quite a difference between a submissive and a slave and NOT all submissives can be molded into a slave. ALthough there are similar points of origin, the 2 are about as different as night and day.

Which is not to say that a submissive cannot grow into being a slave, or that he can't embrace that in stages. I'm just saying that it is not true of ALL submissives. These "all submissives are naturally slaves" is as much nonsense as the "all woman are naturally submissive." Just roll your eyes and move on to the next profile.

< Message edited by LadyMorgynn -- 4/22/2006 4:05:23 PM >

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 4:02:04 PM

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I agree with others here. We get to caught up on words and definitions. To me it is what you feel inside and how deep the relationship goes. I began as Masters submissive , He saw long before i did what i was inside, what with the many conversations we had , the questions He asked. It took me a while to realize it myself but once i did i began a wonderful and often scary journey with Master that i have never once regretted for the 4 plus years i have been His.

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 4:17:43 PM

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Well the one prominent issue i do dispute and have from not making definition is the fate one will chose with their life. hence having the ability to make and have definition clearly defines ones role in a situation aka similar to having negotiated a contract upon entering a relationship that clearly defines limits (hard, treadable, whatever). So dismissing a clear definition between slave and submission allows for miscommunication because it seems that it has not been clearly defined.

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 4:23:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

quote:

KarbonCopy
I would like to disagree with You on principle however it will have to be another day as I just want to look at You today and admire that redness about You. JMO

When you feel up to discussing this matter further, I would be more than happy to engage you on the subject.
In the meantime, I hope you enjoy looking at my "redness" as you so put it.

Be well.

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 4:23:48 PM

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Despite the intersting arguments, or rather staments of view to be had so far, i find the most agrement in LadyMorgynn's comment.. they are in fact two distinctly different things. while in somes minds perhpase interchanagable. i dont belive so. to me each is an entierly different level of things.

it would be much the same as saying any Top is a Dom.. there not the same things. the way i learne dit and have always seen it, i dont feel either is any more or any less then the other, each has there way of doing things, of serving. some can go that little bit further. personaly i cant. some days i find it a struggle to submit myself to the extents ive agrred to much less even consider the thought of completly turning myself over for all choices.

* realizing i stoped makeing any sort of sense about an hour ago im gona bloody shut up now*

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 4:30:20 PM

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when I aquire a slave My expectations of said slave who has become My posession or My Homes posession are CLEARLY DEFINED.
I would not even look at a sub to aquire or any who defines themselfs as sub.
Why? Simple, For the same reasons I would not practice My Sadism on any who were not a masocist.
a submissive defines submission to a Dominant by the moment, day, experiance, emotion and controls the submission. In other words they control the exchange of TPE.
a slave submits onetime at the beginning forever completly as a posession to the Dominant who controls the TPE. JMO

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 4:44:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

when I aquire a slave My expectations of said slave who has become My posession or My Homes posession are CLEARLY DEFINED.
I would not even look at a sub to aquire or any who defines themselfs as sub.
Why? Simple, For the same reasons I would not practice My Sadism on any who were not a masocist.
a submissive defines submission to a Dominant by the moment, day, experiance, emotion and controls the submission. In other words they control the exchange of TPE.
a slave submits onetime at the beginning forever completly as a posession to the Dominant who controls the TPE. JMO

Where as I see these arrangments made by the two parties in play.

A slave and a submissive are personal terms used by personal situations.
My Domme may call me her slave, or submissive, its really up to her.

Either way I am who I am, and to dwell on such differences seems to be almost a complete waste of time. Of course in my opinion.

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 4:50:29 PM

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MistressDREAD, i very much appreciate your later response. it cuts the chase and makes a line. So my signals aka red flag remains that the delete key shall continue for each that insists that they shall make me or i shall become his slave ................ i think there are alot of confused tops out there lol ... hummm but maybe i have a slaves heart and just don't know it....... omg another dynamic to be dealt.... oh yeah almost forgot i was given that line on more than one occassion. geeeesh one really has to be infront of the race to find wholeness don't they. lol

What an interesting jouney this is turning out to be !

Thank you everyone for your responses. And, LuckyAlbatross i did go back and read the discussion thread, quite old but never the less some interesting tid bits of information in it, thank you. guess i should learn to use the search button although i do know some forums are not favourable to rebirthing old threads.

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 4:57:37 PM

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I think it varies from person to person. For me, I am always a submissive. It is a part of my nature. However, I am only a slave when scening as one. "Slave" is more a role I play. Submission is who I am.

(in reply to quietWonder)

RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 5:07:49 PM

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SweetEscravo know you bring up a whole new dynamic to this picture. Wow, i can not even envision playing slave let alone playing submission on a parttime bases. i get far too confused and in essence this has really messed up my life. Having to fight my way through life in a dominant world when i am not dominant, attempting to challenge society in submissive mode just don't cut it very well. Certainly there is a degree of compassion and intregrity that is appealling to the Dominant side but when it comes to winning a battle, i have just not found that the submissive spirit wins out, more like sacraficed for the sake of sympathy. Anyhow, thanks for the input, it is greatly appreciated considering it is going to make me think about something i forgot to think about.

Best regards :)

< Message edited by quietWonder -- 4/22/2006 5:08:48 PM >

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 5:13:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: quietWonder

is it possible to clearly make a definition between a submissive and a slave. Regardless of Oxfords or other dictionaries, is there clearly a defining mark and/or line between the two.

i clearly define myself as submissive as i have a very submissive personality with the right Other. But it is not wavering on the ideas in my mind of what a slave is...... clearly in my own mind there is definition.

However in stating the above, i get overwhelmed when speaking to said Dom's whom have little hesitation to insist that i will become their slave, regardless of the insistence from me that that will not happen. i know myself well enough that i know when and where my freedoms lie, and these freedoms tread quite far from a true slaves life.

Or perhaps it is a whole spectrum of misinterpretation evolving from so much convoluted crap on line and out there that is even confusing the said Dom types that there no longer exists a clear image between a submissives heart and slaves heart.

Although the line might be drawn as very fine between the both, i am not swayed to believing that these roles are interchangeable as and when we see fit to suit the flavour of the day (be it vanilla or otherwise j/k).

As always, any and all feedback will be respected.

If you have "doms" telling you that you will become their slave and ignoring your own identification then it isn't about word definitions its about their self-esteem issues.

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RE: Does submission = slave - 4/22/2006 5:14:13 PM

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As I see it, in most cases, th terminology will depend on the relationship and the expectations of the Dominant partner. Having said that, from a personal and practical perspective only, I am Gorean, thus any relationship with a submissive will be on Gorean Terms and you will be slave, submitting totally to me or not at all... You will have no limits. I will set those. We do not "Do SM" so you will have no safe words. If I choose to indulge myself with some BDSM Games such as shibari, needle play, fire play or fisting etc, I may give you a safe word at least for the early days whilst we are both learning..... However, in the final analysis if you wear a collar from House Iron Bear, Lady Neets and Myself, you are owned totally, you are protected from outsiders who would harm you, you are looked after to the best of my ability ..... I could go on and on and on...... But I think you get the drift..

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(in reply to SweetEscravo)

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