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RE: Degradation 101 - 5/11/2005 5:39:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

Well, I know that if I saw people having a vicious argument in public, or if I saw somene being made clearly uncomfortable, humiliated, or degraded in a non-kink setting I would -definatly- approach the people and confront whomever was doing the "top" part. I would do this even as someone who lives an "alternative lifestyle." (and yes, i have done this. It isn't just bluster.)

I've never understood people who get involved in other people's private arguments. You can't possibly know what is really going on when you see a couple fighting in public. It's folly to pretend that you do.

quote:

Can you imagine what someone who -doesn't- think bdsm is ok would do?

What's the point--we should only do what the vanilla majority would like us to do?

quote:

I would also be upset if I had small children in a place where someone was calling herself "this cunt." I plan on raising my children aware of sexual practices, however I belieive this is unnecessary exposure.

Then just remove your kids from that place. You can't expect the world to conform to the environment you'd like your kids to grow up in. It's your responsibility as a parent to create that environment.

Really, I don't want my child to grow up in a place where people deplete the world's petrochemical resources by driving SUV's. In fact, I think that's a much more serious moral issue than calling your partner a cunt. But I don't consider it productive to go up to everyone who drives an SUV and "confront" them.

Lam

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/11/2005 9:59:32 PM

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I am sorry, but the "why should I be considerate of anyone else, I should do what I want when I want to" attitude from people in general makes me ill. If everyone behaved like that, think of the extremely selfish world we'd be living in. Sometimes, because you are an adult and you understand there are other people aside from you, you have to curb your behavior in consideration of them. Not screaming curse words in middle of a nice restaurant is an example... sure there is freedom of speech and you might want to scream obscenities, but there is also social decorum appropriate to certain places. Your neighborhood bar where you are friends with all the barflies might be a more appropriate place to curse.

If someone were to blow their SUV smoke in your face, that would be offensive. The fact that they drive them may be something you do not like, but it is considered socially acceptable behavior by the majority of people to drive an SUV, plus driving is a necessity for 99% of the people who own cars. Degrading your slave in a public place visible to people who have not consented to YOUR lifestyle is not a necessity or a necessary aspect of life. Sexual behavior to most people is private in nature and does not belong in public. I don't think someone giving oral sex or masturbating would be at all appropriate in a public restaurant or in public view, sexually degrading behavior for you and your submissive follows those same lines. Fortunately or unfortunately, you live in a world with other people. If you want them to respect you, you have to show respect in return. In this case, showing respect on your part means not opening up your sexual lifestyle that may be odd or weird or different or even abnormal to many people, but moreso your sexual behavior or sexually laced behavior should not be exposed to children. People have a right to take children outside of their homes and in public places that are not porno shops or sex shops or sex clubs and have them not exposed to sexual demonstrations. The respect for you comes when people agree that what you do in your home is your business and if you want to keep a chained slave that is your right in the USA. Furthermore, everything in the BDSM lifestyle is about mutual consent; the people in a restaurant never consented to participate in your lifestyle.
Why not just keep the degradation limited to the privacy of your home and invite whomever you would like to particpate to it or in bdsm parties or clubs that are set off from the rest of the non consensual world? What is so difficult in that?
I WANT IT NOW... think of Veruca Salt in Willie Wonka, that is what "I want to do what I want to do regardless of anybody else" always reminds me of.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/11/2005 10:32:29 PM

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Lord save us from what is considered acceptable behavior by the majority of people. Gassing Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and so on was considered acceptable by the majority of Germans in the 1930's and 40's. Burning witches was considered acceptable by the majority of people for a lot longer than that. If history has proven ANYTHING, it is that the majority's morality is usually corrupt.

Lam

Edited to add: This whole discussion about whether it's right to do any of these things in public is artificial anyway. When we talk about things like blowjob technique on here, is it really necessary to add the disclaimer that we're only talking about what we do in private? The original question was about degradation; it wasn't about whether the rest of the world has the right not to see people like us in public.

quote:

ORIGINAL: boundfem

If someone were to blow their SUV smoke in your face, that would be offensive. The fact that they drive them may be something you do not like, but it is considered socially acceptable behavior by the majority of people to drive an SUV, plus driving is a necessity for 99% of the people who own cars.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 5/11/2005 10:36:09 PM >

(in reply to boundfem)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/11/2005 11:10:14 PM

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Joined: 3/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

Can you imagine what someone who -doesn't- think bdsm is ok would do?

I was thinking the same thing myself...

quote:

I would also be upset if I had small children in a place where someone was calling herself "this cunt." I plan on raising my children aware of sexual practices, however I belieive this is unnecessary exposure.

Again, I agree with you.. as someone who is a bit of a potty mouth and teaching little kids also, I am constantly biting my tongue before it gets me into trouble! Like a Dom friend of mine has said on more than one occasion, in a restaurant, "don't shock the vanilla's". I'm just not one who believes in practicing BDSM where it could be misconstrued by others who are either unaware of what it is or who think it is abusive. That doesn't present the lifestyle very well, especially when people don't understand.

cello

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 12:17:33 AM

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Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

Well, I know that if I saw people having a vicious argument in public, or if I saw somene being made clearly uncomfortable, humiliated, or degraded in a non-kink setting I would -definatly- approach the people and confront whomever was doing the "top" part. I would do this even as someone who lives an "alternative lifestyle." (and yes, i have done this. It isn't just bluster.)

I've never understood people who get involved in other people's private arguments. You can't possibly know what is really going on when you see a couple fighting in public. It's folly to pretend that you do.

quote:

Can you imagine what someone who -doesn't- think bdsm is ok would do?

What's the point--we should only do what the vanilla majority would like us to do?

quote:

I would also be upset if I had small children in a place where someone was calling herself "this cunt." I plan on raising my children aware of sexual practices, however I belieive this is unnecessary exposure.

Then just remove your kids from that place. You can't expect the world to conform to the environment you'd like your kids to grow up in. It's your responsibility as a parent to create that environment.

Really, I don't want my child to grow up in a place where people deplete the world's petrochemical resources by driving SUV's. In fact, I think that's a much more serious moral issue than calling your partner a cunt. But I don't consider it productive to go up to everyone who drives an SUV and "confront" them.

Lam

So then it is perfectly acceptable for me to make a male slave go jerk off in front of your niece's or daughter's bedroom window for the humiliation?

How about humiliating a slave by giving him horrible gas and making him release it in a restaurant sitting right next to you? Or losing his enema in his pants just when you are about to finish a nice quiet dinner with your wife and kids?

If you find it offensive, tough shit! Go find another restaurant.

Just becuase YOU don't find someone pissing in their pants in front of vanillas, or calling their partner a "cunt" in front of little ears offensive doesn't mean others don't. As for the "who cares, it's THEIR problem" attitude -- it's the ultimate in selfishness when your arousal, your jollies comes above common courtesy.

You can't whine and toss out the argument that "something" will "offend" just about "anyone" -- we're not talking about kneeling in public. We're talking about things more extreme.

If I had to explain it to my 8 year old niece I would not say, "Those people are engaging in consensual adult make believe play" -- I would say "That's someone who is rude, ignorant and immature. Ignore him. You will meet many people like this in life. Avoid them."

Akasha

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 12:21:29 AM

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From: My Mothers womb.
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A little common sense would be prudent. Doing or saying certain things in public could be misconstrued as domestic violence. This could result in a innocent bystander (or more than one) coming to the aid of a lady and beating the hell out of a Dom. In some places even consensual S/M related activites are illegal and is tied (again) to domestic violence laws. There are some things kids should not be exposed to regardless of if their parents are liberal or not.
I think the operative theme here should be not infringing on anothers rights. A little respect for the public forum and venues should go without saying. I might like partaking in the occasional golden shower (for example) but that doesnt mean I want to see or witness it when I'm out for pancakes first thing in the morning.

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RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 9:05:54 AM

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Joined: 6/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

So then it is perfectly acceptable for me to make a male slave go jerk off in front of your niece's or daughter's bedroom window for the humiliation?

Acceptable? I don't know. Illegal? Yes. So that's a pretty irrelevant example.

quote:

How about humiliating a slave by giving him horrible gas and making him release it in a restaurant sitting right next to you? Or losing his enema in his pants just when you are about to finish a nice quiet dinner with your wife and kids?

If you find it offensive, tough shit! Go find another restaurant.

Don't forget that the restaurant management could throw you out. We said IN PUBLIC, not in a restaurant. You keep on changing the terms.

quote:

You can't whine and toss out the argument that "something" will "offend" just about "anyone" -- we're not talking about kneeling in public. We're talking about things more extreme.

Frankly, I don't really know WHAT we're talking about anymore. Sounds like we're just making it up as we go along. The whole silly discussion started when someone said you can't call your partner "cunt" in public. Now we're talking about losing an enema in a restaurant. We've lost the thread, wouldn't you say?

Lam

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 9:24:23 AM

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Joined: 2/2/2004
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quote:

Don't forget that the restaurant management could throw you out. We said IN PUBLIC, not in a restaurant. You keep on changing the terms.

The original post that started this whole thing was someone suggesting that the submissive pee her pants in public and an example of a restaurant was given. That's where that came from

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 10:42:27 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
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From: Davis, Ca
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I was using "public" to mean "a place open to the public" such as a resturaunt, a library, a public park, a store...

And I stand by what I previously said. While I do believe it is a parent's repsonsibility to regulate what a child is exposed to, that should -not- entail being restricted to one's home.

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(in reply to siamsa24)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 10:44:03 AM

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From: Houston, Texas
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There is a huge difference between degradation and humiliation. One often does irrrepairable damage to the psyce. It is imperative that is be balanced out with positive praises and affirmations so that damage is not done to ones self esteem.

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 11:58:24 AM

ruffnecksbabygir

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Joined: 1/4/2005
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ugh! come on guys, who gives a rats ass who pees in public and who doesn't....i would've liked some ideas, as i was getting before this turned into an argument about whether or not it's ok to flush your enema in a restaurant!

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Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

(in reply to MaitresseEden)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 11:59:15 AM

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*giggle* Don't you find being on these boards a lot degrading on some level? Why else would I be here so much?

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 12:07:00 PM

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Joined: 2/18/2005
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Cause your a perv...lol

There's nothing like a little bit of degredation to warm the depths of ones soul.

arwen xxx

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 12:10:06 PM

ruffnecksbabygir

Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
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not sure my soul is what warms up

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~hugs~
Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

(in reply to arwenbabysub)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 12:17:30 PM

Posts: 11766
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quote:

ugh! come on guys, who gives a rats ass who pees in public and who doesn't....

at the Folsom Street Fair last year, there was a booth selling Watersports videos, a guy behind the counter wearing a yellow shirt that said "Got Piss?" and a toilet slave sitting on his heels with a toilet seat in his lap and a sign around his neck that said "Human Toilet, please use".
not sure if anyone used him there, when we passed by it looked pretty clean, but there had to be some degradation involved--it was a street fair, open to the ADULT public and there were plenty of vanilla's with cameras slung around their necks...

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 12:24:52 PM

Oumae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir

not sure my soul is what warms up

More than arwen's soul warms up too.....

I mean her smile of course.

I prefer the term humiliation for what I do to a sub as degredation holds negative connotations for me...just my take on it. What works on one might not on another. All it took with a sub recently was to make him keep his socks on when stripping for play... mild for some but it was difficult for him, vanity can be a good thing to hit on.

Oumae

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 3:40:19 PM

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i was as well looking forward to the ideas that came of the thread. Unfortunetly the thread got sidetracked to the appropriateness of public humiliation, side tracked further along the same lines, and still side tracked further to feeling hot and horny.

As to the appropriate of publix stuff. i believe things are okay in moderation. i understand what Lam said (gave me a chuckle too). the point i got from him was about the appropriateness (spelling on the word, if it is a word) of what the vanilla's do. i think the point was Nobody is going to find everything everybody does appropriate. Why worry about it? Of course there is conisderation (which i do try and follow) and i wouldnt want to have to explain certian things to my daughter. But maybe that is a selfishness on my part. As she will surely hear them, learn about them and discover them. Which is better? Making myself uncomfortable explaining them to my daughter or "waiting" until she learns them on her own? What parents need to remember is that kids learn things today alot faster then we can imagine. And unless you keep your kids seperated from other kids and the rest of the world, they're going to hear and learn.

Back to the thread.

ANYONE have any other suggestions?

(in reply to Oumae)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/12/2005 4:14:31 PM

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Sorry to come into the discussion late and if any of these ideas have already been used by anyone else...

Most forms of degradation are enhanced by making them a public spectacle or doing them in front of an audience. But obviously, many of them would be hard to get away with in public and it might be considered unethical to force nonparticipating people into some types of humiliation scenes. Other methods of creating the additonal humiliation of being degraded in front of an audience is to do it without them knowing, or to do it only with scene related and participating people in the audience, like at a scene event or via a webcam.

Degradation ideas:

Loss of control over bodily functions: Being made to pee in front of an audience, in a public place, while being photographed, while being displayed on a webcam, etc. Also peeing in your clothes, outside, or even peeing on yourself, or into a container to later pour the piss over your head. For anyone lactating, being made to nurse a puppy, kitten or other animal.

Same sorts of things with enemas...

Other possibilities include eating, drinking or wearing something disgusting... Like drinking your own or you Master's piss, brushing you teeth or washing your hair with a glass of piss, filling a soda bottle with piss and drinking it with a straw in public or even in front of your parents without them knowing it, have someone cum on a food item and then eat it, eating dog or cat food, etc. Of course, we can all probably think of even more disgusting things to be forced to eat or drink depending on your personal limits in that regard.

Exposing yourself, displaying yourself while masterbating, fucking, douching, pissing or defacating.

Being sold, rented, loaned or passed around.

Writting degrading words and phrases on your body (either for others to see or not).

Having standing rules that require you to piss outside, eat from a dog bowl on the floor without your hands, ask permission to piss, deficate, eat drink, sleep, get dressed, being denied the use of underwear, toilet paper, feminine hygeine products, etc.

In general, think of any right, ability, comfort, or convienince that you might take for granted and think of way to eliminate it, remove it or control it.

Hope you find some of this helpful.

HW

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/13/2005 3:46:58 AM

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I know im very new to this site bt my two cents on this are;

when my miss was training me way back when to become a domina as well as a good sub she taught me about 50 rules, most of them were common sense ones like make sure your equipment is in good condition etc. One ofthem rule 3 in fact was that if you intend to degrade or humiliate someone verbally make sure that with a change of tone and inflection it can be complimentary or neutral rather than simply degrading.

as for suggestions one of her favourite things (and its become one of mine over time) was to turn me into her kitten and deny me any humanity, no speech, no toilet (litter tray) etc. the degrading part wasnt that, I could do anything for miss without any feelings but joy at serving her when we were alone, the degrading was often miss would invite her friends over, who would then have a good time making my life yuck. It worked though taught me to know my place in her presence.

(in reply to Horsewhisperer)

RE: Degradation 101 - 5/13/2005 7:19:10 AM

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quote:

i would've liked some ideas

I'm personally a very private player. So what I do tends to not involve public play, and if so, very discreet. What I'm going to suggest probably doesn't apply to you Babygirl, as mostly, I humiliate boys (I play with girls a lot less often and I find it hard to find girls who can tolerate a lot of humiliation). But then again, this is a Degradation 101 post so here are my techniques.

I make him wear pink panties or paint his toenails candy pink or fire engine red, all this under his business suit.
I write "whore boy" on his chest with my lipstick or nail polish.
I turn him into my footstool while I read or watch a film
I make him call my cat Sir (that one is just plain funny to me) and he better not laugh!
I make him pretend he is any animal I chose and he has to make the exact sounds and gestures
I do puppy training play, eating out of a dog bowl, peeing on a newspaper (which I do in the tub that he has to scrub afterwards for sanitary reasons)
I take him to a gay bar and make him flirt with boys, sometimes get down to his skivvies while dancing... and this is usually quite consensual from the perspective of the other men there and particularly fun when my boy is straight

All of this is much more fun to do in the presence of other kink friendly people of course. But that is where I personally draw the line. As for others who choose to subject others to their kink—and I’m not talking about the occasional Sir or Miss or bite on the neck, but more the peeing in a resto type play— I’m not impressed, simple as that. And if someone did make their slave pee in a resto I was eating in, I’d have the resto management make them pay my bill for deliberately ruining my meal.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

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