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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/28/2007 10:27:54 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

  I did not state they had no agenda, did I? I said that the media I read does not have direct advertisers.


If advertisers are not setting the agenda, then someone else is.  My question:  why do you presume (as it appears you are) that this someone(s) else has your best interests, as a regular person, in mind? 

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 5/28/2007 10:29:19 PM >

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/28/2007 11:04:00 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

why do you presume (as it appears you are) that this someone(s) else has your best interests, as a regular person, in mind? 


Appearances are deceiving... lets recap my points....

I stated that in our American media... (I was thinking mostly broadcast, the type that one needs a license for) we are not consumers of that media, we are a product. Because we are a product to be sold to advertisers their interests are the ones that are represented in the media that most people get. I further said that this sickens me because I do not like being a product to be sold to entities trying to sell things to me.

Because of this I tend to try to get my media from other sources. I did not say that these sources were unbiased, I said that they were not supported by advertising dollars that seek to turn me into a product. This type of media tends not to want to offend those who spend their ad dollars with them... so news stories that do not agree with the worldview that is supportive of corporations do not get a lot of time...there are stories that we never hardly hear about because of our media... stories that are slanted toward one view of the world... my point is that if one goes to alternative sources (more than one mind you) and compares and contrasts this to what one sees in the "mainstream" you will find a vast difference in how these stories are presented and covered...

You can assume whatever you like, clip out most of my posts to present my views in a slanted way, but I have been pretty clear already... so unless you can come up with something to refute what I have stated about mainstream media being representative of the interests it really serves (corporations that pay for advertisers), then my point stands as is.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 2:53:20 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Ya know guys, somehow I just don't see the appelation of
"twinkle toes" going well with either of your personas.  
 
But if you go the leotard route, send photos! 


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It is gonna be a peter pan moment for both of us then.



LOL

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 2:56:04 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Every time I look at this thread, I see "Hugo Chavez Fries".......... and picture the people of his country deposing him, and Chavez working at a McDonalds....

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 5:22:31 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b


As for Chavez, the man can now rule by decree ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6277379.stm ). He's a dictator.



No he isn't because he can be voted out at the next election. I'm not saying the situation is great but when the opposition tried to overthrow the elected government in a coup, you arten't going to get a perfect situation.

The problem you have is that you can't stand the man because he is leftwing and supports the poor instead of selling out to the highest bidder, ie. American oil interests, which is the source of the anti-Chavez movement in the US. If there was a rightwing dictator in Venezuela that let the poor rot in their ghettoes and put the rich and the oil interests first, I doubt there would be any rightwing Americans interested in the domestic politics of Venezuala.

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 7:58:25 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:


Appearances are deceiving...

Which is why I ask questions.
quote:


You can assume whatever you like, clip out most of my posts to present my views in a slanted way, but I have been pretty clear already... so unless you can come up with something to refute what I have stated about mainstream media being representative of the interests it really serves (corporations that pay for advertisers), then my point stands as is.

I wasn’t seeking to refute your view on the mainstream media (that was an presumption on your part), I happen to largely agree with it. I was merely curious to know whether you viewed these alternate media with the same skeptical eye you cast upon the mainstream media.

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 8:00:26 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Amy Goodman is HOT!



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 8:03:11 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Amy Goodman is HOT!




She is also delightfully biased, which gives me another view of the world... if it were not for her my understanding of the world would be more limited because I would not hear that other side... only the corporate side.. more voices more choices.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 8:07:04 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
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Status: offline 		Amy Goodman is what Ann Coulter *COULD BE* if Coulter wasn't just whoring for the Speakers' Fees, Air travel, limos, hotel rooms, and food.

A Journalist.

And if Coulter dropped a LOT of acid, first, I guess.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 8:15:00 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Ann Coulter is not intelligent, Amy Goodman is.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 8:50:01 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

No he isn't because he can be voted out at the next election

Can he? Speaking out against him in Venezuela seems to be a dangerous thing to do.

quote:

I'm not saying the situation is great but when the opposition tried to overthrow the elected government in a coup, you arten't going to get a perfect situation.

I imagine similar things were said when Lenin came to power, as well as Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Ortega, Castro, Batista... etc, etc, etc. You will never have a "perfect situation" which makes it the perfect excuse.

quote:

The problem you have is that you can't stand the man because he is leftwing and supports the poor instead of selling out to the highest bidder, ie. American oil interests, which is the source of the anti-Chavez movement in the US. If there was a rightwing dictator in Venezuela that let the poor rot in their ghettoes and put the rich and the oil interests first, I doubt there would be any rightwing Americans interested in the domestic politics of Venezuala.

The problem I have is that the man rhetorical spouting bullshit artist who uses an age old, tried and true, method to gain power – fear mongering. Tell the people that someone else is to blame for their problems. Get them stirred up with envy, resentment and hatred at the other. Promise them that you will protect them from the other and will even punish the other. All they have to do is give you the power then everyone can join in the fun of smiting our enemies (ambrosia for the ego).

I see little difference between his fear mongering (the Americans are out to get you) and anyone else’s...

The terrorists are out to get you...

The communists are out to get you...

The Jews are out to get you...

The right wings Christians are out to get you...

The homosexuals are out to get you...

And on and on it goes...

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 5/29/2007 8:54:20 AM >

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 8:57:48 AM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Ann Coulter is not intelligent, Amy Goodman is.


Coulter is intelligent enough to realize that by acting like a cunt, she can get free first-class airtravel, free stretch limos, free first-class hotel accommodations, free meals and snacks, and a nice fat check for speaker's fees...



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 9:04:34 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Every time I look at this thread, I see "Hugo Chavez Fries".......... and picture the people of his country deposing him, and Chavez working at a McDonalds....


oh good Level.....it's not just me then

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 3:24:00 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Ann Coulter is not intelligent, Amy Goodman is.


Hmm, I would tend to disagree, julia; I'd say Coulter is intelligent, but she's also vicious and deceitful.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 3:25:03 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Every time I look at this thread, I see "Hugo Chavez Fries".......... and picture the people of his country deposing him, and Chavez working at a McDonalds....


oh good Level.....it's not just me then


lol, I bet more than us see the Golden Arches when this thread pops up.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 11:21:24 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

No he isn't because he can be voted out at the next election

Can he? Speaking out against him in Venezuela seems to be a dangerous thing to do.


It was the rightwing opposition that made the coup attempt and I have yet to hear of mass arrests, torture and death squads of the typical rightwing US supported Latin American regimes.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b


quote:

I'm not saying the situation is great but when the opposition tried to overthrow the elected government in a coup, you arten't going to get a perfect situation.

I imagine similar things were said when Lenin came to power, as well as Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Ortega, Castro, Batista... etc, etc, etc. You will never have a "perfect situation" which makes it the perfect excuse.


As I have indicated above, the situation in Venezuala is better than the typical US supported rightwing Latin regimes. When its worse, perhaps people will take seriously the concerns of rightwing Americans. Er.. I am thinking of the US placeman, Pinochet, Ortega and Batista. If the US had not been so bitter, petty and has a 40 year sulk about Castro that little revolution might have turned out better. As it is, the average Cuban lives longer than the average American due to their health system and their education system is also very good considering American policies have starved them of resources..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
quote:

The problem you have is that you can't stand the man because he is leftwing and supports the poor instead of selling out to the highest bidder, ie. American oil interests, which is the source of the anti-Chavez movement in the US. If there was a rightwing dictator in Venezuela that let the poor rot in their ghettoes and put the rich and the oil interests first, I doubt there would be any rightwing Americans interested in the domestic politics of Venezuala.

The problem I have is that the man rhetorical spouting bullshit artist who uses an age old, tried and true, method to gain power – fear mongering. Tell the people that someone else is to blame for their problems. Get them stirred up with envy, resentment and hatred at the other. Promise them that you will protect them from the other and will even punish the other. All they have to do is give you the power then everyone can join in the fun of smiting our enemies (ambrosia for the ego).

I see little difference between his fear mongering (the Americans are out to get you) and anyone else’s...

The terrorists are out to get you...

The communists are out to get you...

The Jews are out to get you...

The right wings Christians are out to get you...

The homosexuals are out to get you...

And on and on it goes...


For a minute I thought you was talking about Bush but you said it, it is little difference than fear mongering Americans. I'm not convinced his populist policies will work but he has been democratically elected and the people who have elected him have experience of the alternative which is rotting in poverty. If the right had been democratic and showed concern for their fellow countrymen that languish in bitter poverty, they might be in power now. I don't remember rightwing Americans caring about the poor either as long as they had access to Venzeualan oil.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/29/2007 11:27:33 PM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/29/2007 11:53:01 PM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Ann Coulter is not intelligent, Amy Goodman is.


She's intelligent, she just doesn't show it very well and has some radical beliefs.

But she graduated as an undergrad at Cornell University with cum laude honors. Then she went to University of Michigan law school. Which is a very difficult law school to get into.
She was in private practice for awhile before serving as a clerk for a federal judge.

You can't be unintelligent and do all that....

Keep in mind that not all intelligent people are liberals...

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/30/2007 1:22:18 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I'll repeat myself...

Coulter is intelligent enough to realize that by acting like a cunt, she can get free first-class airtravel, free stretch limos, free first-class hotel accommodations, free meals and snacks, and a nice fat check for speaker's fees.

And add, beats WORKING for a living!




_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/30/2007 7:30:24 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I'll repeat myself...

Coulter is intelligent enough to realize that by acting like a cunt, she can get free first-class airtravel, free stretch limos, free first-class hotel accommodations, free meals and snacks, and a nice fat check for speaker's fees.

And add, beats WORKING for a living!





Compare and contrast Amy Goodman and Ann Coulter.. that would be fun to read

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Hugo Chavez Frias - 5/30/2007 8:43:39 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

I find it amazing that many on the left actually like this clown. And the lefties that support him brush off any and all criticism as "American propaganda."

The man is a dictator. It is that simple.


ya but american propaganda only applies to the "other guy"


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