quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

No he isn't because he can be voted out at the next election

Can he? Speaking out against him in Venezuela seems to be a dangerous thing to do.

quote:

I'm not saying the situation is great but when the opposition tried to overthrow the elected government in a coup, you arten't going to get a perfect situation.

I imagine similar things were said when Lenin came to power, as well as Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Ortega, Castro, Batista... etc, etc, etc. You will never have a "perfect situation" which makes it the perfect excuse.

quote:

The problem you have is that you can't stand the man because he is leftwing and supports the poor instead of selling out to the highest bidder, ie. American oil interests, which is the source of the anti-Chavez movement in the US. If there was a rightwing dictator in Venezuela that let the poor rot in their ghettoes and put the rich and the oil interests first, I doubt there would be any rightwing Americans interested in the domestic politics of Venezuala.

The problem I have is that the man rhetorical spouting bullshit artist who uses an age old, tried and true, method to gain power – fear mongering. Tell the people that someone else is to blame for their problems. Get them stirred up with envy, resentment and hatred at the other. Promise them that you will protect them from the other and will even punish the other. All they have to do is give you the power then everyone can join in the fun of smiting our enemies (ambrosia for the ego).

I see little difference between his fear mongering (the Americans are out to get you) and anyone else’s...

The terrorists are out to get you...

The communists are out to get you...

The Jews are out to get you...

The right wings Christians are out to get you...

The homosexuals are out to get you...

And on and on it goes...

quote:

It was the rightwing opposition that made the coup attempt and I have yet to hear of mass arrests, torture and death squads of the typical rightwing US supported Latin American regimes.

quote:

As I have indicated above, the situation in Venezuala is better than the typical US supported rightwing Latin regimes.

quote:

When its worse, perhaps people will take seriously the concerns of rightwing Americans. Er.. I am thinking of the US placeman, Pinochet, Ortega and Batista

quote:


If the US had not been so bitter, petty and has a 40 year sulk about Castro that little revolution might have turned out better.

quote:


As it is, the average Cuban lives longer than the average American due to their health system and their education system is also very good considering American policies have starved them of resources..

quote:


For a minute I thought you was talking about Bush but you said it, it is little difference than fear mongering Americans.

quote:


I'm not convinced his populist policies will work but he has been democratically elected

quote:


If the right had been democratic and showed concern for their fellow countrymen that languish in bitter poverty, they might be in power now. I don't remember rightwing Americans caring about the poor either as long as they had access to Venzeualan oil.

quote:

But she graduated as an undergrad at Cornell University with cum laude honors.

quote:

ya but american propaganda only applies to the "other guy"

quote:

Ha! i had to reread that because i would have sworn you were talking about America.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Amy Goodman is HOT!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I was talking about Bush. Fear mongering is fear mongering (you know, I’m not sure is "mongering" is a real word – my spell check refuses to recognize it). The result is always the same – oppression, pain and death.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

But she graduated as an undergrad at Cornell University with cum laude honors.

Don’t confuse education (knowledge of facts – which leads to the question: whose "facts") with intelligence (reasoning ability). There are many intelligent people who are not educated. Likewise, there are a great many well educated idiots (e.g. socialists).

quote:

Perfect example of a well-educated lacking in intelligence individual would be AnencephalyBoy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

It was the rightwing opposition that made the coup attempt and I have yet to hear of mass arrests, torture and death squads of the typical rightwing US supported Latin American regimes.

Journalists being arrested for speaking out against Chavez, mobs attacking his supporters, people fleeing the country. I don’t see much difference. But Chavez is "for the people," so I guess that makes it okay, huh?
You do realize that if U.S. media outlet did what they did the U.S, media would also lose its license?  I watched the same videos that were presented on the U.S, media to support your position of mobs rioting it sorta fails the body count test.  A couple of hundred people does not a mass movement make.  The only people one sees fleeing the country were the coup leaders.
The reason you do not see much difference is that you do not choose to.

quote:

As I have indicated above, the situation in Venezuela is better than the typical US supported rightwing Latin regimes.

Tell that to the guy laying in the middle of the street bleeding to death.
Which guy in the middle of the street bleeding to death are you referring to?

quote:

When its worse, perhaps people will take seriously the concerns of rightwing Americans. Er.. I am thinking of the US placeman, Pinochet, Ortega and Batista

I have already mentioned Pinochet and Batista (Ortega? A U.S. right wing "placeman?"
Are we talking about the same Ortega here?),
Yeah, that confused me too. Is he really talking about Daniel Sandinista Ortega...hardly a U.S. placeman.


The primary difference between you and me is that you give a pass to some dictators because you agree with their politics. I do not. Chavez can spout all the "populist" nonsense he want’s to. His actions belie him. He’s a dictator.
Unless you can cite something I have not read in the press about him he on most any point would be less of a dictator than Bush & co.

quote:


If the US had not been so bitter, petty and has a 40 year sulk about Castro that little revolution might have turned out better.

Not likely. History has proven socialism (communism, marxism, whatever you want to call forced collectivism) a failure.
Not so, history does not prove that at all.  What history does show is that when the most economically powerful nation on the planet brings its full weight to bear it can topple almost any government.


Nobody (except the leaders of course) prospers under it – and nobody has any freedom because freedom is anathema to the centralized plans of the exalted know-it-all leaders.
It would appear that you are ignorant of the history of Russia.  What it was like before the fall of the Czar vs. what it was like after.  Your rhetoric seems to come directly from the play book of Joe McCarthy.  You might just for fun try a history book. 



If socialism is for the people why did the Soviet Union need the Gulag?
One might also ask why the U.S. has reservations for Native Americans.

Why did Eastern Europe have to build walls and fences to keep their people in? Why do Cubans construct ramshackle rafts out of doors and corrugated tin in a death defying attempt to get out?
If this is so then why do they keep going back to Cuba.  If I remember correctly wasn't the mother of Elion Gonzalez on her fourth or fifth round trip from Cuba to Fla. when she died?

quote:


As it is, the average Cuban lives longer than the average American due to their health system and their education system is also very good considering American policies have starved them of resources..

How do you know it is due to their health care system? Maybe there are dietary factors or other environmental factors in play.
Or perhaps you just don't like the facts.

Correlation is not automatically causation.
You apparently choose not to do any research to prove otherwise but still feel comfortable denying the benefits of health care.  If you do not believe that health care is a good thing perhaps you should discontinue yours since you do not feel that there is any correlation between health care and health.


You won’t get any argument from me that the American education system sucks but that doesn’t make the Cuban system any better.
You are the one who has made the allegation that the American education system sucks.  Were you referring to the one that Bush imposed on Texas or what the rest of the U.S. uses.
The Cuban system seems to work better because when Castro took power the literacy rate in Cuba was about 50% and now it is 100% and the U.S. is not.  If Castro is such a horrible dictator why on earth would he want his people to be literate?



If they are being taught that socialism is good for them – then they are being taught lies.
Since you do not have a clue as to what is being taught, how can you logically have an opinion about it?


You also won’t get any argument from me that the embargo is stupid. There is no better antidote to the silliness of socialism than the free market.
You do this a lot Mark.  You use free market,free Enterprise and capitalism interchangeably.  As you are well aware the more economically powerful will crush the weaker in both capitalism or in free market but not in a free Enterprise system so lets be on the same page when we talk of level playing fields.  Unless you are not in favor of a level playing field.

I have to wonder though, if Castro was a right wing dictator, would you be in favor of an embargo then?

quote:


For a minute I thought you was talking about Bush but you said it, it is little difference than fear mongering Americans.

I was talking about Bush. Fear mongering is fear mongering (you know, I’m not sure is "mongering" is a real word – my spell check refuses to recognize it). The result is always the same – oppression, pain and death.

quote:


I'm not convinced his populist policies will work but he has been democratically elected

His being democratically elected is questionable considering that mobs of his supporters attacked those they knew were likely to vote for the opposition on their way to the polls. And for every soul brave enough to try, how many did’t vote out of fear for their safety?
Is this some more opinion being passed off as truth?  Try to remember it was the thugs of the rt wing who staged the coup attempt.  Hardly the sort to be intimidated by the peasants.

quote:


If the right had been democratic and showed concern for their fellow countrymen that languish in bitter poverty, they might be in power now. I don't remember rightwing Americans caring about the poor either as long as they had access to Venzeualan oil.

You just don’t get. Neither the far left or the far right care about democracy.
Venezuela has more freedom and democracy now than at any time in her history and you are against it.  Why?  Tell us when the Venezuelan people have been better off than now.

If you continue to paint one side as saints and the other side of sinners
When compared by any measure to his predecessors he is a saint in comparison.


then you are caught in the same trap that humanity has been caught in ever since we were squatting in the African sun, contemplating the sticks and stones, grasping at possibilities – our animal heritage. We are a tribal species and this once served us well but now it is getting us into serious trouble. Until we begin to look at the human race as a single tribe we will continue to divide ourselves along fatuous lines, convinced that our tribe (race, culture, nation, political party, etc.) are the good guys and those others are the bad guys (so it’s okay to hurt them).
Yup that is exactly what you are doing.  Extolling the virtues of the right and telling how bad the left is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

It was the rightwing opposition that made the coup attempt and I have yet to hear of mass arrests, torture and death squads of the typical rightwing US supported Latin American regimes.

Journalists being arrested for speaking out against Chavez, mobs attacking his supporters, people fleeing the country. I don’t see much difference. But Chavez is "for the people," so I guess that makes it okay, huh?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

As I have indicated above, the situation in Venezuala is better than the typical US supported rightwing Latin regimes.

Tell that to the guy laying in the middle of the street bleeding to death.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

When its worse, perhaps people will take seriously the concerns of rightwing Americans. Er.. I am thinking of the US placeman, Pinochet, Ortega and Batista

I have already mentioned Pinochet and Batista (Ortega? A U.S. right wing "placeman?"
Are we talking about the same Ortega here?), The primary difference between you and me is that you give a pass to some dictators because you agree with their politics. I do not. Chavez can spout all the "populist" nonsense he want’s to. His actions belie him. He’s a dictator.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:


If the US had not been so bitter, petty and has a 40 year sulk about Castro that little revolution might have turned out better.

Not likely. History has proven socialism (communism, marxism, whatever you want to call forced collectivism) a failure. Nobody (except the leaders of course) prospers under it – and nobody has any freedom because freedom is anathema to the centralized plans of the exalted know-it-all leaders. If socialism is for the people why did the Soviet Union need the Gulag? Why did Eastern Europe have to build walls and fences to keep their people in? Why do Cubans construct ramshackle rafts out of doors and corrugated tin in a death defying attempt to get out?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:


As it is, the average Cuban lives longer than the average American due to their health system and their education system is also very good considering American policies have starved them of resources..

How do you know it is due to their health care system? Maybe there are dietary factors or other environmental factors in play. Correlation is not automatically causation. You won’t get any argument from me that the American education system sucks but that doesn’t make the Cuban system any better. If they are being taught that socialism is good for them – then they are being taught lies. You also won’t get any argument from me that the embargo is stupid. There is no better antidote to the silliness of socialism than the free market. I have to wonder though, if Castro was a right wing dictator, would you be in favor of an embargo then?

quote:


For a minute I thought you was talking about Bush but you said it, it is little difference than fear mongering Americans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I was talking about Bush. Fear mongering is fear mongering (you know, I’m not sure is "mongering" is a real word – my spell check refuses to recognize it). The result is always the same – oppression, pain and death.

quote:


I'm not convinced his populist policies will work but he has been democratically elected

His being democratically elected is questionable considering that mobs of his supporters attacked those they knew were likely to vote for the opposition on their way to the polls. And for every soul brave enough to try, how many didn’t vote out of fear for their safety?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:


If the right had been democratic and showed concern for their fellow countrymen that languish in bitter poverty, they might be in power now. I don't remember rightwing Americans caring about the poor either as long as they had access to Venzeualan oil.

You just don’t get. Neither the far left or the far right care about democracy. If you continue to paint one side as saints and the other side of sinners then you are caught in the same trap that humanity has been caught in ever since we were squatting in the African sun, contemplating the sticks and stones, grasping at possibilities – our animal heritage. We are a tribal species and this once served us well but now it is getting us into serious trouble. Until we begin to look at the human race as a single tribe we will continue to divide ourselves along fatuous lines, convinced that our tribe (race, culture, nation, political party, etc.) are the good guys and those others are the bad guys (so it’s okay to hurt them).

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

You don't get it. I don't remember you or anyone of your rightwing friends complaining about rightwing regimes supported by the American establishment and I suggest it is because you as they, see rightwing governments in the interests of America. It is not for nothing that the only Latin dictators America seems to have a problem with are the leftwing ones, even leftwing governments that are democratically elected are called dictators. It seems from here that rightwing Americans have a problem with leftwing governments per se. When you and your kind seem concerned about rightwing dictators I will take you serious but they are easily bought with dollars so aren't a problem.

quote:

You do realize that if U.S. media outlet did what they did the U.S, media would also lose its license?

quote:

I watched the same videos that were presented on the U.S, media to support your position of mobs rioting it sorta fails the body count test. A couple of hundred people does not a mass movement make.

quote:

The only people one sees fleeing the country were the coup leaders.

quote:

The reason you do not see much difference is that you do not choose to.

quote:

Which guy in the middle of the street bleeding to death are you referring to?

quote:

Unless you can cite something I have not read in the press about him he on most any point would be less of a dictator than Bush & co.

quote:

Not so, history does not prove that at all. What history does show is that when the most economically powerful nation on the planet brings its full weight to bear it can topple almost any government.

quote:

It would appear that you are ignorant of the history of Russia. What it was like before the fall of the Czar vs. what it was like after.

quote:

Your rhetoric seems to come directly from the play book of Joe McCarthy.

quote:

You might just for fun try a history book.

quote:

One might also ask why the U.S. has reservations for Native Americans.

quote:

If this is so then why do they keep going back to Cuba. If I remember correctly wasn't the mother of Elion Gonzalez on her fourth or fifth round trip from Cuba to Fla. when she died?

quote:

Or perhaps you just don't like the facts.

quote:

You apparently choose not to do any research to prove otherwise but still feel comfortable denying the benefits of health care. If you do not believe that health care is a good thing perhaps you should discontinue yours since you do not feel that there is any correlation between health care and health.

quote:

You are the one who has made the allegation that the American education system sucks.

quote:

Were you referring to the one that Bush imposed on Texas or what the rest of the U.S. uses.

quote:

The Cuban system seems to work better because when Castro took power the literacy rate in Cuba was about 50% and now it is 100% and the U.S. is not. If Castro is such a horrible dictator why on earth would he want his people to be literate?

quote:

Since you do not have a clue as to what is being taught, how can you logically have an opinion about it?

quote:

You do this a lot Mark. You use free market,free Enterprise and capitalism interchangeably. As you are well aware the more economically powerful will crush the weaker in both capitalism or in free market but not in a free Enterprise system so lets be on the same page when we talk of level playing fields. Unless you are not in favor of a level playing field.

quote:

Is this some more opinion being passed off as truth?
Try to remember it was the thugs of the rt wing who staged the coup attempt. Hardly the sort to be intimidated by the peasants

quote:

Venezuela has more freedom and democracy now than at any time in her history and you are against it. Why? Tell us when the Venezuelan people have been better off than now.

quote:

When compared by any measure to his predecessors he is a saint in comparison.

quote:

Yup that is exactly what you are doing. Extolling the virtues of the right and telling how bad the left is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Do I really want to go another round of this dance? I suppose, but only because I have some time to kill.
How about the next time you have nothing to do and lots of time to do it in you could bring some facts to the discussion.

quote:

You do realize that if U.S. media outlet did what they did the U.S, media would also lose its license?

Assuming the allegations made against them are true and the "facts" being reported are accurate.
So it appears that now you approve of his shutting down the TV stations.  Glad to see you agree.
Is it really that difficult for you to do your own research?  Why do you find it necessary to dance around the subject...the broad cast in question are not only a matter of public record they have been in the American media.  It seems that you just refuse to believe anything that does not fit your preconceived notions of reality.  So instead of saying yes or no you ignore the facts and use all the weasel words you have at your command.  If you have en ought time to respond to me you have enough time to research what we are discussing.  Playing dumb just make you look dumb and we both know that is not the case.

quote:

I watched the same videos that were presented on the U.S, media to support your position of mobs rioting it sorta fails the body count test. A couple of hundred people does not a mass movement make.

You should have watched that so call election.
You need to pay attention....this thread is about the riots that broke out about the closing down of the opposition TV station not the election.

quote:

The only people one sees fleeing the country were the coup leaders.

Wrong. The middle class in Venezuela is fleeing, or looking to flee (to America as well as other countries) in huge numbers. Just do a Goggle search and you’ll find dozens of articles about it.  I've actually met people from Venezuela who fled because they feared for their live under Chavez. 
This would constitute what percentage of the 26 million people who live in Venezuela.
Perhaps you might learn Spanish and take a vacation there to see how things really are?  Not likely since you clearly have your mind made up.  Yeah I been there.

quote:

The reason you do not see much difference is that you do not choose to.

It is you who chooses not to see the similarities. Does it really matter what political slogan is being shouted in the name of oppression?
The only ones I see being oppressed are the right wing thugs who are advocating the violent overthrow of the legally elected government.  Are you against criminals being brought to justice?
 

quote:

Which guy in the middle of the street bleeding to death are you referring to?

The one you see every time oppression and tyranny reign.
Oh I am sorry I thought you had an actual victim to point to.  So you have your knickers all bunched up over a metaphorical guy laying in the middle of the street bleeding to death, not a real person.  I had no idea you were such a sensitive guy.

quote:

Unless you can cite something I have not read in the press about him he on most any point would be less of a dictator than Bush & co.

The man can rule by decree – he’s a dictator. I wonder how long before the Venezuelan constitution is amended to make him "president" for life.
That is not an answer to the question.  Because of your "agenda" you are projecting this boogy man image on him.  Get a life.

quote:

Not so, history does not prove that at all. What history does show is that when the most economically powerful nation on the planet brings its full weight to bear it can topple almost any government.

Every country that has foolishly tried socialism (communism, marxism, whatever you want to call it) has seen as a result an increase in unemployment (often in double digits), a decrease in prosperity
Is this some more of your metaphorical man laying in the street bleeding to death...how about some facts your opinions are just not relevant.

(when was the last time you had to stand in line for toilet paper?),
I have a bidet.

and of course, a decrease in personal liberty since all these things tend to piss off the people and they start squawking about it.
How about some facts....which country are you talking about?  Are you saying that Russia had more personal freedom under the Czar?  That Viet Nam had more personal freedom before the current communist government?  That Cuba had more personal freedom under Batista?  That the previous government of Venezuela provided more personal freedom than Chavez does?  You talk like a man with a paper asshole fighting a forest fire.

Now that I think about it, maybe socialism has succeeded in it's aims.  It's real aims that is, not it's stated ones.
It would appear that your ideology must create a "secret" agenda  because you cannot rebut the stated one.

quote:

It would appear that you are ignorant of the history of Russia. What it was like before the fall of the Czar vs. what it was like after.

Russia before the revolution: an oppressive regime where most people lived in poverty and had no freedom. Russia after the revolution: an oppressive regime where most people lived in poverty and had no freedom.
This is something you know or more of your opinion?  Have you ever been to Russia.  What exactly have you read about Russia?  Have you read anything that differs from your preconceived opinion?

But I should look at the differences right? The Soviet Union after all was a worker’s paradise, so it was all okay.
As compared to what?

quote:

Your rhetoric seems to come directly from the play book of Joe McCarthy.

Ahhh, yes. I’ve dared to criticize the left wing (they being all so noble and pure, how dare I?).
Please save the drama for your acting class...you have heard my opinion of both the left and the right so try to confine your self to the discussion.  There is no purity in politics but please do not get all righteous with me when Chavez does what Bush or any other U.S. president of either stripe would do.  You use the public airways to advocate the violent overthrow of the legal government and you will loose your license to broadcast.

So I must be a Joe McCarthy wannabe.
That is abundantly clear.

quote:

You might just for fun try a history book.

Unless you’re a professional historian, odds are I have read more history books than you have. Even if you are a professional historian, you need to read a wide variety of views.
I would be more than happy to discuss the vacancies in your bibliography.

quote:

One might also ask why the U.S. has reservations for Native Americans.

So we could take their land from them... Duh! Aside from the fact that both are examples of oppression, I fail to see the connection.
The connection is that you are quick to see perceived problems in another's back yard while not saying one word about the problems that you might actually have some ability to change in your own back yard...I think the word is hypocrite.


Then again, the Soviet Union was a workers paradise, so if some people had to be cruelly imprisoned, tortured, and worked to death in freezing temperatures – it was a small price to pay.
Again your agenda seems to focus on someone Else's situation and to ignore one of your own problems that you could actually have some effect on.

quote:

If this is so then why do they keep going back to Cuba. If I remember correctly wasn't the mother of Elion Gonzalez on her fourth or fifth round trip from Cuba to Fla. when she died?

Siting a specific exception does not necessarily invalidate a known generality
The facts are that it is not a specific exception....the facts are that the two way travel between Cuba and the U.S. is quite common.  Your so called known generality is just false.  Perhaps if you were to cite some numbers as to how many Cubans have entered this country illegally in the past forty years  by year and just what their status was before Castro came to power.

(you do this a lot). Thousands have fled Cuba, thousands more would love to flee Cuba. If Cuba is so great, why do they have to be forcibly kept in?
Cuba only has ten or eleven million people one would think that if they are leaving at the rate you  claim that they would all be here by now I mean it has been more than forty years.
Where do you get your numbers?  How do you know that there are thousands who would love to flee Cuba?  When was the last time you were in Cuba?  You keep making these wild claims but never provide any thing to substantiate your position.

quote:

Or perhaps you just don't like the facts.

I don’t have a problem with facts. I do have a problem with blindly accepting "facts" without questioning the reasons behind them. I do not seek to buttress an ideology, I seek to arrive at truth (a never ending journey).
The problem I see that you have with facts is that you never seem willing to deal in fact but rather only in your mono manic hatred of anything that differers from your agenda.

quote:

You apparently choose not to do any research to prove otherwise but still feel comfortable denying the benefits of health care. If you do not believe that health care is a good thing perhaps you should discontinue yours since you do not feel that there is any correlation between health care and health.

I did not say "correlation is not causation." I said "correlation is not automatically causation."
Actually you were quite dismissive of the health care in Cuba having anything to do with their health.  Instead of doing any sort of research as to the cause.  You come to this and other discussions with opinion and no facts and when pressed you claim ignorance of the minutia.  If you do not know what you are talking about why do you post?

If Y goes up every time X goes up and down whenever X goes down the "logical" conclusion most people arrive at is that X is causing Y. That may be. Then again, maybe Y is causing X. Maybe there is a third factor, Z, which is causing both. Then again maybe the whole thing is just a coincidence. But if the notion that X causes Y is comforting to someone’s world view, then they are loath to think otherwise. Some of us, however, want our notions challenged. It is the only way to see if they stand up to reality.
Instead of dazzling us with your grasp of x,y and z why don't you bore  us with facts to support your "possible" contention that the public health care in Cuba does not contribute to their well being and extended life span.

quote:

You are the one who has made the allegation that the American education system sucks.

And I’ll make it again: The American education system sucks.
With the exception of Texas would you care to flesh out your "opinion" with some facts to support your allegation.  American educated scientist seem to win a lot of Nobel prizes.

I’m willing to acknowledge some shining exceptions but there is no way to extol the virtues of an education system that graduates students who can’t even find their own fucking country on the map (and it’s not like it’s little country) for cripes sake.
More opinion with out facts to shore it up.  What percentage of those who graduate from high school cannot find the U.S, on a map,  have you got a real number here or is this just more opinion.

quote:

Were you referring to the one that Bush imposed on Texas or what the rest of the U.S. uses.

I’m refering to the one imposed on America by the NEA.
So what would you like to replace it with?

quote:

The Cuban system seems to work better because when Castro took power the literacy rate in Cuba was about 50% and now it is 100% and the U.S. is not. If Castro is such a horrible dictator why on earth would he want his people to be literate?

Assuming that Cuban literacy is 100%, my guess is so that Castro and useful idiots who shill for him can crow that they have 100% literacy.  I’m wondering, can the Cubans use that 100% literacy to read anything they want, or will possession of certain reading materials land them in prison?
This would seem to speak directly to your own educational background.  How hard would it be for you to find out?  There is this really kewel thingie on the net it is called "google" and you can find most anything you want to learn about even what sort of books the Cuban people can access.  On that same line I have noticed that the U.S. government has interdicted some things on the net as not being fit for U.S, citizens to readhttp://english.aljazeera.net/News/archive/archive?ArchiveId=22706
Every time I try to go to this site I get a forbidden notice....I am on a personal computer that no one else has access to...I am not part of any network.
 

quote:

Since you do not have a clue as to what is being taught, how can you logically have an opinion about it?

I said that IF they are being taught socialism (a fairly safe assumption under a socialistic government, I should think) THEN they are being taught lies.
It is your "opinion" that it is a lie.  The rest of the world thinks it is an economic system.


It logically follows because socialism IS a lie.
Do you really think it is logical to base a conclusion on an opinion?

It is the false belife that that everyone can have their cake AND eat it too -- ALL THE TIME! 
I do not remember ever seeing that in any of the writings of Marx or any other socialist.  I know it is much easier for you to knock down your own opinions of another than it is to deal with what they actually said.

quote:

You do this a lot Mark. You use free market,free Enterprise and capitalism interchangeably. As you are well aware the more economically powerful will crush the weaker in both capitalism or in free market but not in a free Enterprise system so lets be on the same page when we talk of level playing fields. Unless you are not in favor of a level playing field.

You and I obviously have very different definitions of these terms. As for a level playing field, there is no such thing, it’s a myth, a pretty fantasy
So it appears that you are not in favor of fair play, level playing field or any of the other niceties of civilized behavior.



negated by the reality that different people have different skills and abilities. What we need is a consistent body of laws applied neutrally.
In another thread you called a flat tax an example of this.  All I see is a guy who wants to stack the deck so he will pay less taxes.  It would appear that you are in favor of a consistent body of laws that favor you and they would be applied in a neutral manner so as to prevent any exceptions for any reason, thus ensuring your perpetual position on top of the stack....nice work if you can get it.

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Is this some more opinion being passed off as truth?
Try to remember it was the thugs of the rt wing who staged the coup attempt. Hardly the sort to be intimidated by the peasants

Not according to some Venezuelans I talked to when the were touring the art gallery. They were recent immigrants, by the way. They fled when they were burned out of their home and beaten for opposing Chavez.

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Siting a specific exception does not necessarily invalidate a known generality

This appears to be a bit contradictory....I am not allowed to cite an individual circumstance to make a point but you are...ahhhhh yes your contempt for the level playing field.

But I guess it’s Kay since it’s all in the good cause of building a socialist workers paradise.
So you do not feel that traitors should be prosecuted...So do you want to release Hinckley and Sirhan Sirhan

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Venezuela has more freedom and democracy now than at any time in her history and you are against it. Why? Tell us when the Venezuelan people have been better off than now.

I’m getting sick and tired of saying this but here I go again: The man can rule by decree! He’s a fucking dictator! Until that changes, there is no democracy in Venezuela and no freedom either!
Would you agree that the Venezuelans have more freedom and democracy now than before Chavez but not as much as you would like them to have.

But it’s Kay, it’s all in the good cause of left wing ideology.
This again would be opinion and not fact.  How about a cite?

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When compared by any measure to his predecessors he is a saint in comparison.

Let me know when he has jailed or killed enough people to no longer qualify as a saint in your eyes.
Are you saying that criminals ought not to be put in jail.  Are you saying that you are against the death penalty?  What would you do to the person or persons who would try to murder you?

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Yup that is exactly what you are doing. Extolling the virtues of the right and telling how bad the left is.

Criticism of one is not extolling the virtues of another. I am no more right wing than I am left wing.
I have read all of your posts and you come through loud and clear as a right winger.  To deny it is fatuous.

I have made many criticisms of the right on these boards (and been called a left winger for it) You need to shut down you’re ideological filter. I realize that it’s not easy to do –
The only ideological filter I use is the one that skims the bs.

life is so much more fun when you are morally and intellectually superior to others.

You bet it is

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And people afraid to vote against Chavez ? I don't buy it. They could band together and make it to the polls.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

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And people afraid to vote against Chavez ? I don't buy it. They could band together and make it to the polls.

Easy to say if you’re not there. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: it’s easy to have high moral principles so long as the consequences don’t affect you.
I’m still trying to figure out the rest of your... discourse.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

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Perfect example of a well-educated lacking in intelligence individual would be AnencephalyBoy.

Sad but true.  As for my spell check, shooting it may be a bit drastic, I think I'll put it over my knee and give it a good spanking instead -- it obviously hasn't been paying attention at school.