RE: How many Doms were subs first?

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HardnRuff -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 2:52:01 AM)
I was trained as a sub By a Mistress for 2 years . And I am Sooooooooooooo Not a sub . She was very hard on Me , WAY harder than the others in the family. She did that for a reason , I had expressed My views and My interest in the Lifestyle and she suggested this was the best way to learn what it felt like to be on the recieving end of things. It Made Me see what this is all about... I Hated every minute of it at the time .But it was def a growing experience .

AdventurousLife -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 3:45:13 AM)
Focus has said that Doms who sub are playing a role, and seems to imply they aren't real doms. I see a lot of doms insist that they could never sub-- and I think they do this because they feel that if they admitted that they could others would claim they are fake. I've seen rumor campaigns started about people claiming they were irresponsible, etc, simply because the person in question did not hide the fact that they were a switch. Its watching this kind of behaviour that caused me to stop associating with the local BDSM community - as I don't get off on the constant drama. Dominant and submissive are personality types. and they come from two sources-- insecurity and ability. Some let insecurity cause them to try and compensate for their insecurity by being dominant or submissive--- and I believe these people will let their insecurity cause them to insist that they (while slaming their dick on the table) are so dominant they could never be a sub. I believe in reality that dom and sub are positions -- and like one who is learning how a business works-- working in the different positions is good training. Your personality may be dominant, but your domination ability is greatly enhanced by time in the submissive position. The originators of BDSM in america-- gay veterans of WWII -- created a training program for this very reason. Unfortunately, het BDSM has rejected much of these traditions. But I would advise any submissive who is seeking a method to find trustworthy doms to consider asking them if they ever have or would submit-- if they say no, move along. Not because they don't have that training- but because they don't have the right attitude. And for submissives who want a relatively safe way to learn--- seek out one of the overabundance of inexperienced submissive men and experiment with them in the dominant position-- it will make you a better submissive. Humility is another trait to look for in dominants.

SweetAndInnocent -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 7:52:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HardnRuff I was trained as a sub By a Mistress for 2 years . And I am Sooooooooooooo Not a sub . She was very hard on Me , WAY harder than the others in the family. She did that for a reason , I had expressed My views and My interest in the Lifestyle and she suggested this was the best way to learn what it felt like to be on the recieving end of things. It Made Me see what this is all about... I Hated every minute of it at the time .But it was def a growing experience . Just a question here. This is the stance that always makes me not understand why some who know from the beginning they are Dom, submit first. Now, before I begin, please understand I am not referring to "offering service" as Archer talked about. What he described sounded to me much more like a bottom than a submission. It was never about "doing for the Dominant" as much as about "getting what the other needed". Now, back to my original statement. You said you hated every minute of it. If the person who knows they are a Dom, is attempting to submit, and is miserable in the role, won't it then give them a skewed view of submissives? How does it help to understand being on the other side, when submissives enjoy being there?

KMsAngel -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 8:58:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Always was a "control freak"; always will be! Never been a slave, a sub or a bottom - never wanta be! I'm a Dom (and a male and an Aussie) and for the life of me I can't see the logic of ever trying anything else in order to justify or validate what I really am and always was. Focus. let me see "Aussie=Male=Dom" (throwing in some xxx or VB as well), yup pretty normal progression! (just kidding, seen plenty of wimpy males over here too)

HardnRuff -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 10:40:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetAndInnocent quote: ORIGINAL: HardnRuff I was trained as a sub By a Mistress for 2 years . And I am Sooooooooooooo Not a sub . She was very hard on Me , WAY harder than the others in the family. She did that for a reason , I had expressed My views and My interest in the Lifestyle and she suggested this was the best way to learn what it felt like to be on the recieving end of things. It Made Me see what this is all about... I Hated every minute of it at the time .But it was def a growing experience . Just a question here. This is the stance that always makes me not understand why some who know from the beginning they are Dom, submit first. Now, before I begin, please understand I am not referring to "offering service" as Archer talked about. What he described sounded to me much more like a bottom than a submission. It was never about "doing for the Dominant" as much as about "getting what the other needed". Now, back to my original statement. You said you hated every minute of it. If the person who knows they are a Dom, is attempting to submit, and is miserable in the role, won't it then give them a skewed view of submissives? How does it help to understand being on the other side, when submissives enjoy being there? Ok I knew I was a Dom from the start but I didnt know where or how to put it to use. I had a friend who was a Mistress and she told Me if I Really wanted this lifestyle then I should prove it to her and I did .. She wanted Me to make damn sure this is what I wanted and for me to be trained from the bottom just so I would clearly know what makes a great owner and she did .. Did I enjoy it ? No not at all . Did it make Me see things in an entirely different manner ? By all means yes ... She was hard on Me just because she wanted to see How bad I how wanted to be a Master / Dom ..I think any Dom that Has done this has taken a very Humbling step for them .. I find that by humbling Myself for that breif period in Time , I took a major step in learning what it feels like to Be Property . I guess that is why I take it so seriously ..With the advent of online BDSM anyone who can type 6 letters can deem themselves a Master . I have had that title bestowed upon Me after earning it ..Once I learned how to control Myself .. I got to see first hand how important it is for a Mistress Master Dom to control themselves , If they cant then they damn sure cant control you can they ?? No not in any way shape or form .... And I am no switch nor sub by any means .. I did that to prove to Her I was worthy of being a great Dom.... Dont think its hard for a Dom to submit to a Mistress ? Try it for 2 years and see ... LOL .. I think maybe a sub should have to be a Dom for 2 years first ... chuckles a lil ..

Grlwithboy -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 10:48:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetAndInnocent quote: ORIGINAL: HardnRuff I was trained as a sub By a Mistress for 2 years . And I am Sooooooooooooo Not a sub . She was very hard on Me , WAY harder than the others in the family. She did that for a reason , I had expressed My views and My interest in the Lifestyle and she suggested this was the best way to learn what it felt like to be on the recieving end of things. It Made Me see what this is all about... I Hated every minute of it at the time .But it was def a growing experience . Just a question here. This is the stance that always makes me not understand why some who know from the beginning they are Dom, submit first. Now, before I begin, please understand I am not referring to "offering service" as Archer talked about. What he described sounded to me much more like a bottom than a submission. It was never about "doing for the Dominant" as much as about "getting what the other needed". Now, back to my original statement. You said you hated every minute of it. If the person who knows they are a Dom, is attempting to submit, and is miserable in the role, won't it then give them a skewed view of submissives? How does it help to understand being on the other side, when submissives enjoy being there? This is really really old school and glbt flavored, which is one of the traditions I came up in. It's because being a D is excercising a privilege. One which isn't yours just because it "feels right" which is a very contemporary reason not to ever do anything you don't want to do, and one I reject. It's a privilege that I felt should be earned in part by subjecting myself to the other position and doing some things I found unpleasant which might be equally as unpleasant to an inexperienced sub/bottom and which I might later insist on for my own pleasure. It created, if not in the eyes of others, in the ones I have to look in the bathroom mirror, a sense that I had worked for my position, knowing all along it was what I wanted, but not just expecting it to be handed to me "because it's what I want" but because I understood as much as I could the responsibility and the effects of my power.

Grlwithboy -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 10:50:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AdventurousLife But I would advise any submissive who is seeking a method to find trustworthy doms to consider asking them if they ever have or would submit-- if they say no, move along. Not because they don't have that training- but because they don't have the right attitude. I've always done this and I've always been careful about how I answer this question. It's also very key to me HOW people answer this question. "No it's just not me" or "I've had enough knocks in real life that it would bring up bad shit" are different from "ME? Are you Kidding???"

HardnRuff -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 10:59:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy quote: ORIGINAL: SweetAndInnocent quote: ORIGINAL: HardnRuff I was trained as a sub By a Mistress for 2 years . And I am Sooooooooooooo Not a sub . She was very hard on Me , WAY harder than the others in the family. She did that for a reason , I had expressed My views and My interest in the Lifestyle and she suggested this was the best way to learn what it felt like to be on the recieving end of things. It Made Me see what this is all about... I Hated every minute of it at the time .But it was def a growing experience . Just a question here. This is the stance that always makes me not understand why some who know from the beginning they are Dom, submit first. Now, before I begin, please understand I am not referring to "offering service" as Archer talked about. What he described sounded to me much more like a bottom than a submission. It was never about "doing for the Dominant" as much as about "getting what the other needed". Now, back to my original statement. You said you hated every minute of it. If the person who knows they are a Dom, is attempting to submit, and is miserable in the role, won't it then give them a skewed view of submissives? How does it help to understand being on the other side, when submissives enjoy being there? This is really really old school and glbt flavored, which is one of the traditions I came up in. It's because being a D is excercising a privilege. One which isn't yours just because it "feels right" which is a very contemporary reason not to ever do anything you don't want to do, and one I reject. It's a privilege that I felt should be earned in part by subjecting myself to the other position and doing some things I found unpleasant which might be equally as unpleasant to an inexperienced sub/bottom and which I might later insist on for my own pleasure. It created, if not in the eyes of others, in the ones I have to look in the bathroom mirror, a sense that I had worked for my position, knowing all along it was what I wanted, but not just expecting it to be handed to me "because it's what I want" but because I understood as much as I could the responsibility and the effects of my power. Bingo Grlwithboy.... I am glad that You can appreciate this .. So many just dont get that I find .. * Smiles*

HardnRuff -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 11:02:58 AM)
It was common practice in the Gay leather commuinity I was told .. Before you could own a boi . you have had to proved yourself worthy in the eyes of the local commuinity .

MstrssPassion -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 11:05:15 AM)
close but close only counts in horseshoes & hand grenades

MissHarlet -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 11:14:32 AM)
I started as a submissive over 20 years ago and was a damn good one I was told.. but always knew that something was missing .. thought it was that I hadnt found the right dom. People in the community kept telling me I was dominant and one day would realize and accept it .. I fought it for a long time. Then one day woke up to the fact that I was training Doms and training submissives for Doms ... and that the training was what actually fed my soul not just my brain or body. ... Slowly I took steps to test myself and found the true me. I feel it makes me a much better Dominant as I know what it is to submit .. what is feasible and what is BS orders .. and how to deal with the questions and insecurities a submissive can have. Im not saying this is the only or best way ..just the way it was for me. Lady H

Grlwithboy -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 11:16:22 AM)
The gay leather community is as diverse and varied as the hetero/pan one. I'm sure some people "bottomed up" and some didn't and some still do and some don't. The culture still varies hugely region by region - in the way people style their relationships, the scenes they do, etc. I was taught a lot of things by men and women who had been in very protocol-heavy relationships and taught by (I hate to use the world but it applies) Old Guard people. They don't operate that way with their mentees now. Not at all. They'll talk about it a little, but I know that things I did were unstructured to the Nth degree if you had a time machine and went back to watch them being trained.

AdventurousLife -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 5:55:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy I've always done this and I've always been careful about how I answer this question. It's also very key to me HOW people answer this question. "No it's just not me" or "I've had enough knocks in real life that it would bring up bad shit" are different from "ME? Are you Kidding???" All three of those answers throw up big red flags-- First one indicates that they don't know who they are, and aren't willing to find out. Second one indicates that they are acting out of anger or bitterness at something that they experienced in the past and thus while they might be good tops in a scene with neutral observers, would not likely be a good person to trust your mental state too... and the third answer-- that actually might be the correct one if its followed with "of course, with X on Y date for Z months and let me tell you about what I learned."

Grlwithboy -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 10:01:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AdventurousLife quote: ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy I've always done this and I've always been careful about how I answer this question. It's also very key to me HOW people answer this question. "No it's just not me" or "I've had enough knocks in real life that it would bring up bad shit" are different from "ME? Are you Kidding???" All three of those answers throw up big red flags-- First one indicates that they don't know who they are, and aren't willing to find out. Second one indicates that they are acting out of anger or bitterness at something that they experienced in the past and thus while they might be good tops in a scene with neutral observers, would not likely be a good person to trust your mental state too... and the third answer-- that actually might be the correct one if its followed with "of course, with X on Y date for Z months and let me tell you about what I learned." Honestly, I think intonation might be lost here. I'm trying to delineate a "oh that's just not my bag" response, a response which indicates that the person has had some kind of trauma which would make submission emotionally inappropriate or dangerous for them. Some people want to go towards those events, and some don't and I think that's OK. I guess I prefer tops who have had other experience - but not quite to the point where I think all others are dangerous. That doesn't make sense to me.

SirButchTX -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/10/2007 11:13:39 PM)
I was married..so yeah..I was a sub first. If I hadn't done all the housework, cooked all the meals and generally kept the house together, it would have fallen apart and I would have been homeless....so what do you think? All joking aside (some of that was joking) everyone has both dominant and submissive tendencies. Not that many will cop to it, but if we are going to wax eloquent about honesty, perhaps a little self honesty should be included. When my sub was injured in a car wreck and had to be helped out of bed to go to the bathroom, I was more than happy to help. I served her meals in bed, I cared for her when she could not, and I felt a great deal of gratification when I saw her smile or say thank you. Those are definitely submissive traits. Could I do it for an extended period of time...no, I could not. When circumstances are just so, the other part of our psyche will surface to deal with the situation as needed. SirButch.

Focus50 -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/13/2007 4:22:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KMsAngel quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Always was a "control freak"; always will be! Never been a slave, a sub or a bottom - never wanta be! I'm a Dom (and a male and an Aussie) and for the life of me I can't see the logic of ever trying anything else in order to justify or validate what I really am and always was. Focus. let me see "Aussie=Male=Dom" (throwing in some xxx or VB as well), yup pretty normal progression! (just kidding, seen plenty of wimpy males over here too) *Yikes, beer swilling "wimpy male"; it's like you've known me all my life - scarey!!!!* Just curious - as a Novacastrian, I was wondering where "over here too" actually is for you? Think I'll go sweep for bugs and hidden cameras.... Focus.

Focus50 -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/13/2007 4:34:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AdventurousLife Focus has said that Doms who sub are playing a role, and seems to imply they aren't real doms. Whoa - yorta be careful how you throw that "real" word about...! I implied a dom who subs is a switch - did NOT say anything about individuals not being real. Just as I would equally imply a hetero seeking a gay experience is at least bi. quote: But I would advise any submissive who is seeking a method to find trustworthy doms to consider asking them if they ever have or would submit-- if they say no, move along. Not because they don't have that training- but because they don't have the right attitude. Obviously you would proffer the same moronic advice to heteros who equally haven't experienced a gay encounter to appreciate what being hetero really is? While we're at it, perhaps all males should get about clothed and groomed as women for awhile; to equally give them the "right attitude" toward women and personal relationships, too? quote: Humility is another trait to look for in dominants. Humility doesn't necessarily require one to humiliate themselves. Similar words - but with very different meanings and consequences. It bothers you that many of us don't need to keep proving ourselves - sometimes not even once? Focus.

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/13/2007 6:32:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AdventurousLife And for submissives who want a relatively safe way to learn--- seek out one of the overabundance of inexperienced submissive men and experiment with them in the dominant position-- it will make you a better submissive. Sorry, but I don't need to pretend to dominate a submissive male to "learn" to do what comes naturally to me. Like most submissives, I have many dominant personality traits that are apparent in my non-personal life, but they exhaust me. Many of those traits come to the surface as what could be called a self defense mechanism, and I don't just mean in things that are directed at me personally, but in things that affect me directly and indirectly. And as for practicing any sort of sadism, I don't have a sadistic bone in my body. Not happening. Oh and as for doms being subs first, well that's topic has come up before and you'll find some submissives have no problem with their dom having subbed or bottomed at some point. Some don't even care if they do it now. I'm not one of them.

Grlwithboy -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/13/2007 6:54:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Obviously you would proffer the same moronic advice to heteros who equally haven't experienced a gay encounter to appreciate what being hetero really is? While we're at it, perhaps all males should get about clothed and groomed as women for awhile; to equally give them the "right attitude" toward women and personal relationships, too? Everyone can run their life as they please. I avoid people who equate bisexuality in men with lack of masculinity and I avoid people who equate being female with being humiliated, just as I choose to pass over people who equate submission with a "lowering" of themselves or innately humiliating or below them.

Despot -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (7/13/2007 11:07:50 AM)
Speaking for myself only. I was never a sub and can never imagine being a sub. However, even after 10+ years I do learn new techniques, try different fetishes, and get new ideas from the subs that I meet and Dominate. I don't have to sub to learn.

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