RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks)

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RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 6:53:14 PM

Posts: 955
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockingluvr54

Damned if we do...damned if we don't....

Yup.

I'M going to write a book about that.

Maybe. (Probably not though.)

< Message edited by joyinslavery -- 6/15/2007 7:11:14 PM >

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to stockingluvr54)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 7:17:45 PM

Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joyinslavery

quote:

ORIGINAL: stockingluvr54

Damned if we do...damned if we don't....

Yup.

I'M going to write a book about that.

Maybe. (Probably not though.)

Oh, come on joy

You could call it 101 Damnations

Any thoughts on who could play Cruella in the made for tv movie? (no tv's though)

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to joyinslavery)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 7:36:26 PM

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Joined: 6/20/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Karamel, I would not rather chew glass, think of them as comic relief.
Be glad you don't have to deal with them in reality.

Mia, I know what you're saying, but it's hard to laugh when you feel physically ill!!!
And I rest My case...
~Kara

_____________________________

"Never eat more than you can lift." ~ Miss Piggy

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 7:50:36 PM

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Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess

And I rest My case...
~Kara

Well done.

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to KaramelGoddess)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 7:50:50 PM

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Joined: 2/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Karamel, I would not rather chew glass, think of them as comic relief.
Be glad you don't have to deal with them in reality.

Mia, I know what you're saying, but it's hard to laugh when you feel physically ill!!!
And I rest My case...
~Kara

Well what did Mistress expect after consuming shards of glass.

Though i do understand that sometimes "the truth" is hard to swallow.

Respectfully,

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to KaramelGoddess)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 8:04:16 PM

Posts: 404
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Karamel, I would not rather chew glass, think of them as comic relief.
Be glad you don't have to deal with them in reality.

Mia, I know what you're saying, but it's hard to laugh when you feel physically ill!!!
And I rest My case...
~Kara

Well what did Mistress expect after consuming shards of glass.

Though i do understand that sometimes "the truth" is hard to swallow.

Respectfully,

chia* (the pet)

My name is Kara, not Mistress. One boy on the planet has the privilege of calling Me that, and it's certainly not you.
There could be an endless debate about the truth and what it is. It is different for every individual. I have My expectations of a submissive and the ones AAkasha described are NOT it. Just like I am not IT for some submissives. No big deal, like shoes there are thousands more to try on.

_____________________________

"Never eat more than you can lift." ~ Miss Piggy

(in reply to chiaThePet)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 8:18:22 PM

Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess

quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Karamel, I would not rather chew glass, think of them as comic relief.
Be glad you don't have to deal with them in reality.

Mia, I know what you're saying, but it's hard to laugh when you feel physically ill!!!
And I rest My case...
~Kara

Well what did Mistress expect after consuming shards of glass.

Though i do understand that sometimes "the truth" is hard to swallow.

Respectfully,

chia* (the pet)

My name is Kara, not Mistress. One boy on the planet has the privilege of calling Me that, and it's certainly not you.
There could be an endless debate about the truth and what it is. It is different for every individual. I have My expectations of a submissive and the ones AAkasha described are NOT it. Just like I am not IT for some submissives. No big deal, like shoes there are thousands more to try on.

Kara,

It's because i'm out of this world!

And i really wouldn't consider You an "IT", respectfully speaking.

We are who we are, nothing at all wrong with that Kara.

Funny You should mention shoes, exactly my point,

If they don't fit, don't just slam them against the wall,

Perhaps they will fit another just perfectly if given the chance.

And i'm not trying to be a heel here either.

Respectfully,

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to KaramelGoddess)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 8:43:31 PM

Posts: 406
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

I have noticed an increase in very aggressive behavior from male submissives.
If they can't tone it down with me, they have no future with me.
Online, I have found most men that claim to be submissive are bottoms in denial.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 9:02:58 PM

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Joined: 2/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

I have noticed an increase in very aggressive behavior from male submissives.
If they can't tone it down with me, they have no future with me.
Online, I have found most men that claim to be submissive are bottoms in denial.

Could the Dear Lady please share with me Her definition of a "bottom in denial"

Honestly, i am sincerely asking here, just that i could understand Your view.

However, the aggressive behavior noted of submissives recently

Is most likely attributed to the the now worldwide spread of the "switch" virus

You must let me get it out

Respectfully,

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to LadyIce)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 9:05:27 PM

Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

I have noticed an increase in very aggressive behavior from male submissives.
If they can't tone it down with me, they have no future with me.
Online, I have found most men that claim to be submissive are bottoms in denial.

Personally, I think You'll continue to see more of that.

I think there are quite a few (legitimate) reasons for it but I'm too tired to go into them now.

Love Your avatar!

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to LadyIce)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 9:12:55 PM

Posts: 106
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

I have noticed an increase in very aggressive behavior from male submissives.
If they can't tone it down with me, they have no future with me.
Online, I have found most men that claim to be submissive are bottoms in denial.

I also have noticed the increase in very disrespectful behavior from men but I think it's only because it's the same "submissives" that we are seeing and who are posting all the time on this board and I also agree with you that most men that claim to be submissives are bottoms in denial as well. They like the idea of submission in theory but are not at the level of giving oneself to the ideals of feminine authority outside of the sexual realm.

(in reply to LadyIce)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 9:14:22 PM

Laura

Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

There are way too many games. I don't even try to understand all of that. If someone starts playing games and guessing I have double motives or am saying something between the lines I just bail. I know they are far more complicated than I EVER want to be. I really only feel an interest in men (sub or not) if they talk to me. Just plain everyday conversation about what they like to do (not BDSM/ fetishes) and who they are in the everyday (so called vanilla) life. Game playing men just take way too much energy and time and then it all ends up being just another disappointment.

_____________________________

Bait & Switch - Adult column

(in reply to stockingluvr54)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 9:15:09 PM

Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyClaudiaVan

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

I have noticed an increase in very aggressive behavior from male submissives.
If they can't tone it down with me, they have no future with me.
Online, I have found most men that claim to be submissive are bottoms in denial.

I also have noticed the increase in very disrespectful behavior from men but I think it's only because it's the same "submissives" that we are seeing and who are posting all the time on this board and I also agree with you that most men that claim to be submissives are bottoms in denial as well. They like the idea of submission in theory but are not at the level of giving oneself to the ideals of feminine authority outside of the sexual realm.

Please rethink your ideas.

Thank You! (Where's the smiley face thingy????)

Edited because I can't really say why.

< Message edited by joyinslavery -- 6/15/2007 9:33:03 PM >

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to LadyClaudiaVan)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 9:41:42 PM

Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Laura

There are way too many games. I don't even try to understand all of that. If someone starts playing games and guessing I have double motives or am saying something between the lines I just bail. I know they are far more complicated than I EVER want to be. I really only feel an interest in men (sub or not) if they talk to me. Just plain everyday conversation about what they like to do (not BDSM/ fetishes) and who they are in the everyday (so called vanilla) life. Game playing men just take way too much energy and time and then it all ends up being just another disappointment.

Hi Laura

Thanks for the Link

Though a quick shimmy through the site found most of the posts

rather old and outdated, kinda like........... well i'll try again later.

Respectfully,

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to Laura)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 9:46:06 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear AAkasha, Ladies and Gentlemen;

In my mind's eyes--nothing really has changed when it comes to the many types of men who proclaim their slavery and or submissive side.

Few gentlemen really "get it" and most are stubbornly holding on to any mechanics that provide them control; as men are shaped from childhood to be and do a certain way in society. In my mind's eyes I see it is more of an entrenched behavior, attitude and or mindset. Not much different than being brought up in one religon and transfer into another religon entirely.

Until men (in general) make a choice to encase themselves into a boundaries where it can open the door to women who identify as Dominant, as to permit the transfer of power and authority to them -- it will be a lost cause. Until the games and things men do as trained from childhood are understood by the men, how it causes the problems in D/s exchanges--it is just important to appreciate those men who 'get it' as well as don the 'Been there-done that' T-shirt.

Let us not forget--there are those ladies who identify as Dominant women who do their share of playing games, manipulating and deceiving men who identify as submissive/slaves.

Many of us who have been 'played' are cynical and rightly so.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 10:04:37 PM

hereyesruponyou

Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline

I think we all walk a fine line in attitude, and we all bring our own demons to the table and often misinterpret because of differing life experience rather than any actual attempt at lack of communication on either part. I know people on both sides are frustrated. That's what happens with relationships, bdsm or not. you get frustrated until you find the right person then you are amazed at how awesome it is. unfortunately most people spend much of their lives in the in between stage that leads to frustration, attitude and often despair. It's really quite sad. I do think the world would be better if we could all be nicer to each other...but when is that really gonna happen???

_____________________________

Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be

(in reply to LadyHugs)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 10:11:42 PM

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Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Yes, but you are all money grubbing, selfish, obese, bitchy, fake, wannabe hookers in drag, no?

Yours,

benji

Edited to add: Can I worship your ass?

I am not bitchy....

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/15/2007 10:17:48 PM

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Dear LadyHugs,

Thank You Mamm for a well stated view.

As i was raised in a very Dominant, very strict household and can attribute
much of my submissive nature there of, i still find myself, though strongly
desiring to please and be pleasing, resisting the belief that if anyone
identifies Themselves as a Dominant, i must simply slip into the boundries
and yield to Their thoughts and actions as truth, "just because". So many
here spend so much of Their time engaged in "light hearted" conversation
which belittles, finds fault, ridicules, chastises, corrects, lectures and in
general slams those of a submissive nature. Then we are expected to bow
down and do the 100 yard knee dash to Their respective desires. Huh?

If i desire such humiliation, i will simply put a "Bush, Four More Years"
bumpersticker on my ass and stroll naked through the local racquetball
club.

As You fairly point out, concern stems from both sides of the isle, but just
let a boy raise a few points about that, talk about a bevy of circling and peeing.
i do not "proclaim" to be a submissive, i am a submissive, and this is why
i arch my own eyebrow at some of what i see and hear at the lovely
"collar me" forums. Thank You again for Your perspective, sincerely spoken.

Respectfully,

chia* (the pet)

edited because the toothpicks fell out of my eyes

< Message edited by chiaThePet -- 6/15/2007 10:21:04 PM >

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to LadyHugs)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/16/2007 12:17:00 AM

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks)

This thread makes me think of a complaint I have seen here and there against subs; subs want dommes to be dominant but not really, only how they see dominance to be. Here I see the message to be that the OP wants subs to have their own thoughts but not really.

The tone I sense in the OP is influenced by the subject line. The message that seems to stand out amongst the noise is that any sub who takes a stand for his interests is a jerk or an asshole. How does one expect any sub to feel who has any resemblance to the miscellaneous categories described in the OP?

This thread paints with broad strokes. And I have seen other threads from the OP that painted with similar broad strokes with a subsequent disclaimer that it does not apply to most of the subs reading the forums. This approach leaves me puzzled. To me, such a broad statement with disclaimers is little different from stating generalizations against an ethnic minority in front of a member of that group and then saying, oh but it doesn't apply to you.

I also do not see the trend you describe as much as you do. And I do not encounter subs or observe subs' behavior as much as you do. There are multiple dommes who are agreeing with you so there must be some basis to what you say. Most things have two sides to a story and there is probably a middle ground somewhere. I am wondering if I am doing something that I do not realize I am doing. Would you care to give specific examples of what you see so I can see to what extent I am participating in the behavior against which you object, and seek to understand the reason behind the objection? You are welcome to quote me specifically.

With respect to comments about what you see as arrogance and being an asshole, I am curious about the bigger picture of the behavior. Was it an initial action, or was it a response and a reaction? Was it someone trying to be an asshole in attempt to attract dommes or was it someone acting within the range of behavior we see across men and women?

For instance, you and I had an exchange over a thread about how people respond to crying. I had a general comment and you responded to my comment with what came across to me as a suggestion of idiocy against me. I ended that exchange saying that I felt such a suggestion was unnecessary. I am curious, in that conversation, was I subtly being arrogant and an asshole by objecting against your suggestion? If that is an example of the type of behavior you describe, what would have instead been an appropriate response? How would you have responded if the exchange was the other way around? How do you feel about your response that had an emotive, sarcastic suggestion of idiocy?

I mostly rely on general social etiquette for how I interact with people. If you expect a code of behavior as defined between a heirarchy of castes of different social stature without such behavior being voluntarily offered, I can see how the misunderstandings and frustration might be born.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 6/16/2007 12:53:34 AM >

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) - 6/16/2007 1:03:15 AM

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I think most of the fog between men and women can be blown away after two (2) or three (3) F2F meetings. The shennanigans, exagerations, and posturing lie most squarely in the online experience.

When people meet F2F, then can get right to the heart of the matter: do they like each other and might they share some sort of future.

I agree. This point came up in another thread recently. I think both dommes and subs have potential to take a defensive position against a faceless person who has not yet earned whatever allowances or compromises one must make. Us-versus-them threads tend to bolster this defensiveness.

I am happy to report that things proceed a lot better in person.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 6/16/2007 1:18:00 AM >

(in reply to cloudboy)

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