RE: what would you do

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slaveluci -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 5:14:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy For people who get married without the expectation or desire for honesty and trust and fidelity, it's a different matter and it might not even bother them what the other spouse does True and I certainly don't mean to give the impression that's how my former marriage was. I entered into it with those same expectations and they were violated. It very much bothered me and affected me negatively for a long time. Even at that, I just don't have the anger toward cheaters in general that I see here on many occasions. That's why I was asking people exactly what it is that strikes that nerve for them and causes such a harsh reaction. Is it due to personal experience? Is it because there's no consent from the spouse? Is it because of the depth of dishonesty?, etc. etc. Interesting answers thus far. (BTW - on a separate note - I love your responses to almost any thread here. If I put "ditto" after every post of yours that I totally agree with, that's all I'd ever say[:)]). Our relationships have many similarities and I really relate to your way of thinking. Keep up the good posts............slave luci

Level -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 5:21:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci There's nothing I can list here that someone won't defend as totally fine between consenting adults....unless perhaps it happens to be "cheating" and then the low-down, dirty dog, pond scum sunzabitches need to be schooled on just how to act[;)]. Why is that and just what is it about cheating that makes people so angry and self-righteous when none of the other acts discussed here seem to have the same effect? I am simply very curious as to why the topic of cheaters brings forth such a fervor when every other thing that adults do together is supposed to be cool? luci Consent is the key, and in a cheating situation, there is one party that is not giving that. And why the vehement responses? Could be, in part, the OPs nonchalance about cheating, and her seeming denseness. Sorry, I couldn't come up with a nicer way of saying that......

slaveluci -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 5:27:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Consent is the key, and in a cheating situation, there is one party that is not giving that. Beautiful summation, as usual, Level[:)]. That seems to be the feeling most people have, I think......luci

Level -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 5:44:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: Level Consent is the key, and in a cheating situation, there is one party that is not giving that. Beautiful summation, as usual, Level[:)]. That seems to be the feeling most people have, I think......luci Thank you, my friend. I saw that Lam had already given much the same answer, if I had read through the thread, I wouldn't have added anything.

proudsub -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 6:32:25 PM)
quote: ok...first there was no 'ulterior motive' yes I sent her an email letting her know that he is married...and included my cell phone number...and no the conversation did not sound like 'first wive's club'...I am not angry or bitter--I look at this as merely lesson learned...the den mother in me was afraid she was a new-wide-eyed naive sub that was driving in from TN to meet her prince charming...but after talking with her I know that was never the case..and I made a new friend....as for his wife---well she is his responsibility to be honest with or not--I am not even attemptingto contact her. I think you did exactly the right thing.[:)]

slavegirljoy -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 8:40:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci That's why I was asking people exactly what it is that strikes that nerve for them and causes such a harsh reaction. quote: Is it due to personal experience? For me, YES. quote: Is it because there's no consent from the spouse? For me, YES. quote: Is it because of the depth of dishonesty? For me, Most Definitely YES. quote: etc. etc. For me, Probably YES also. It was a huge betrayal, the deepest i have ever known, especially since it had nothing at all to do with him needing to get more sex. i already did everything and anything he wanted. He already had sex with other women, when he would arrange 3somes and 4somes for us and he could have gone out and screwed any woman he wanted any time he wanted and i would have been okay with it, as long as he would have been honest with me about it. He had no reason to go behind my back, stay out all night, leaving me to worry that he had been drinking and crashed his car and was dead in a ditch. He hurt me, without cause, and it wasn't right. And, i've known others, men and women, who were hurt badly by a cheating spouse and i just think it's wrong. quote: Interesting answers thus far. (BTW - on a separate note - I love your responses to almost any thread here. If I put "ditto" after every post of yours that I totally agree with, that's all I'd ever say[:)]). Our relationships have many similarities and I really relate to your way of thinking. Keep up the good posts............slave luci Thank you, luci. That's very nice of you to say. You raise very thought-provoking questions that generate some interesting discussion. So, thank you for your posts. ------------ slave joy Owned property of Master David "..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." -- F. Nietzsche

velvetears -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 10:48:40 PM)
luci i have to say i love your post and have often wondered too about the vehement anger and hostility "cheating" brings out in people. i have often thought it was over the top while other threads which speak of far more serious scenarios go unoticed. You have said you were cheated on and you don't hold the same level of anger that you see around you being posted, same here, and i am going to ask you a question, obviously you don't have to answer it and for those of you who feel such deep emotional reactions/feelings to cheating ponder this for yourelf also. Through the pain, anguish, hurt, betrayal you went through by being in a situation where you were cheated on were you able to dig deep inside yourself and take some responsibility for what had happened in your relationship which may have led to the cheating? It's hard to do but a relationship doesn't exist in a vaccuum. Please don't misconstrue what i am asking by thinking i am saying the spouse deserves to be cheated on by something they did, not at all, i am asking you to take a look at the situation in totality and not seperate it into one facet of "cheating" - hope i am making sense and you can understand what i am trying to convey. i think in large part the intesne anger is a defense against taking any responsibility for what happened in the relationship which may have led to the cheating.

angelic -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 10:52:17 PM)
Hi velvet. i was cheated on... i will absolutely admit to making mistakes in the relationship, but his cheating was all on him.

NControlofU -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 11:11:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: angelic Maybe it is because 'we' (generic use here) hold trust and honesty as a very important part of WIITWD. Just my thoughts on it. Yes! That makes sense and could very well be the explanation for many who find cheating so offensive and unacceptable. Because, in WIITWD specifically, honesty and trust are so vital. People who have been involved long-term and are used to expecting those traits in another would almost certainly be especially angered to hear about a violation of them. Ok....good answer and one I hadn't specifically hit on before sending the post......thanks alot.........luci Trust and honesty aren't just very important in WIITWD. Theyre also usually pretty important to a good marriage.

Lordandmaster -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 11:22:11 PM)
Of course--how can you have any respect for someone who knowingly sleeps with a married man and then tells his wife after the relationship falls apart? That's what I'd call a destructive little cunt. Excuse my Portuguese. quote: ORIGINAL: cjenny I felt a bit off with the comments saying "go tell the wife" and I couldn't quite put my finger on it until I read your post LAM. It feels like there is an ulterior motive for telling her, sort of 'well he screwed me over & his wife should know. gee I will tell the wifey then I will feel all warm n fuzzy for being such a good person'. If the OP didn't tell the wife when their affair began then why would the submissive tell her now?

Lordandmaster -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 11:26:31 PM)
Oh, I meant to respond to this too, it raises an issue that people tend to overlook. If one spouse decides that he or she basically wants to go celibate (and this isn't so rare in American marriages), what exactly is the other spouse supposed to do? Go celibate too? Get divorced? The self-righteous crowd doesn't have much more to offer than those extreme alternatives. Only infants see the world in black and white. (Gotta love that quote.) quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 my exhusband had a g/f and if I ran into her today I would buy her a drink, or lunch or something...because after 20 years I had no real interest in being intimate with him

NControlofU -> RE: what would you do (6/18/2007 11:49:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Oh, I meant to respond to this too, it raises an issue that people tend to overlook. If one spouse decides that he or she basically wants to go celibate (and this isn't so rare in American marriages), what exactly is the other spouse supposed to do? Go celibate too? Get divorced? The self-righteous crowd doesn't have much more to offer than those extreme alternatives. Only infants see the world in black and white. (Gotta love that quote.) Theres another alternative. Tell the spouse that you need to get laid and if she doesn't want to put out anymore, then you have no choice but to get it on with someone else. She doesn't like that idea? She wants a divorce because of it? Shouldn't she have the right to know what's going on so she can make that choice? Just as he has the right to make the choice to go out and get the pussy hes missing at home?

DeviantlyD -> RE: what would you do (6/19/2007 12:11:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion Has any one considered yet telling his wife and this other submissive would just be dismissed as her being a loony person who he rejected and now she's on the war path? Just because she warns them, if she does won't mean she'll be believed, most likely the opisit story. quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD Trust me, his unsuspecting girlfriend will want to know. Feline Persuasion: Certainly it's possible for someone to take it that way, but I think the manner of how the information is presented is a big factor. Several years ago I was getting to know a guy online that I had incredible rapport with. Yet, for whatever reason, I didn't see him as a romantic potential. Due to a very odd set of circumstances I became suspicious of who he was, although being a married man wasn't at the top of my list. I did some investigating and found a phone number at his home address that was listed under a woman's name. I called the number and left him a message. I got a call back from his wife. Around this time I had also discovered he was romancing another woman online and she was actually planning on meeting him. I got in touch with her and filled her in on his marital status. She was crushed, but appreciative of knowing the truth. We kept in touch for a while, although that eventually diminished and then stopped. I never heard from or contacted this man again. For myself, I was more bummed about the loss of friendship, but I truly felt for this other woman who was really falling for him. So, from personal experience, I can say that the other woman won't always think another woman telling her that the guy is married is some sort of jealous harpie. quote: ORIGINAL: Evanesce It's not just the wife who stands to be hurt here. The sub is equally at risk. Oh I completely agree! I did make reference to this in my first post on this thread, so I didn't want to repeat myself. I'm sorry for the hurt you went through with the married policeman. I can understand mourning the relationship, but I hope you will find one day that you no longer do. quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 quote: But I have my doubts that this man's wife consented to a marriage where her husband engages in intimate activities with other women. Wait a minute. Clarification, please. Do you think that it is impossible for a married woman to consent to her husband having "intimate activities" with others? Is that concept per se impossible in your mind? Or are you merely saying in the case outlined by the OP, you don't think this guy had been honest with his wife? E. Oh definitely the latter Emperor 1956. I know there are marriages that are open and where there is consent between both partners to engage in intimate activities with others. I was simply referring to Elusive1's situation. quote: ORIGINAL: MaamJay It seems everyone was very quick to assume the OP had sex with this man and therefore both of them were cheaters. She never actually said they had sex ... "fun and scening" ... fun doesn't necessarily equate to sex in My dictionary! Maam Jay aka violet[A] I agree with your definition, however, cheating doesn't necessarily involve sex. If his wife is vanilla (I would strongly suspect she is, which is why he's going outside the marriage), I think it would be very difficult for her to understand scening and playing as non-intimate activities. There are many tangents from this post and I can see this thread continuing on and on. It certainly demonstrates what I've found the "world" of BDSM to be like - many divergent opinions, thoughts and experiences. And hopefully we can agree to disagree. :) Edited to add comments I thought I had stuck all in one response, but realized after posting that I hadn't!

velvetears -> RE: what would you do (6/19/2007 12:37:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Oh, I meant to respond to this too, it raises an issue that people tend to overlook. If one spouse decides that he or she basically wants to go celibate (and this isn't so rare in American marriages), what exactly is the other spouse supposed to do? Go celibate too? Get divorced? The self-righteous crowd doesn't have much more to offer than those extreme alternatives. Only infants see the world in black and white. (Gotta love that quote.) quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 my exhusband had a g/f and if I ran into her today I would buy her a drink, or lunch or something...because after 20 years I had no real interest in being intimate with him my sentiments exactly - but all they want to see is "it's wrong to cheat".... i got burned at the stake in another thread months ago for putting forth this pov... it will be intresting to see how the same people respond to you [;)]

Level -> RE: what would you do (6/19/2007 1:56:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Oh, I meant to respond to this too, it raises an issue that people tend to overlook. If one spouse decides that he or she basically wants to go celibate (and this isn't so rare in American marriages), what exactly is the other spouse supposed to do? Go celibate too? Get divorced? The self-righteous crowd doesn't have much more to offer than those extreme alternatives. Only infants see the world in black and white. (Gotta love that quote.) quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 my exhusband had a g/f and if I ran into her today I would buy her a drink, or lunch or something...because after 20 years I had no real interest in being intimate with him my sentiments exactly - but all they want to see is "it's wrong to cheat".... i got burned at the stake in another thread months ago for putting forth this pov... it will be intresting to see how the same people respond to you [;)] Divorce, masterbate, or make an agreement to have your need fulfilled. Screwing around shouldn't be an option.

mons -> RE: what would you do (6/19/2007 2:24:37 AM)
greetings you upset with him becasue he would not tell this woman the "new " about his wife and kids. think now you did something wong yourself , you mention she had some ideal what was going on but you still saw him. i do not judge you. but i am one who will not go out with anyone who is married. i seen the pain the hurt the women go through and the childern oh wow my father cheated on my mother when i ws about 6 and u did not know about sex but i saw that look my mother had. and this woman had not shame she live right next to us . your right to be upset with him this girl wil fall in love with him and he will never tell her a thing . then there still is the wife she is lost but not in the dark she knows what is going on i wish you luck , find anothet dom one who is single and hacve a wondedul time good luck mons [&:]

velvetears -> RE: what would you do (6/19/2007 5:33:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Oh, I meant to respond to this too, it raises an issue that people tend to overlook. If one spouse decides that he or she basically wants to go celibate (and this isn't so rare in American marriages), what exactly is the other spouse supposed to do? Go celibate too? Get divorced? The self-righteous crowd doesn't have much more to offer than those extreme alternatives. Only infants see the world in black and white. (Gotta love that quote.) quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 my exhusband had a g/f and if I ran into her today I would buy her a drink, or lunch or something...because after 20 years I had no real interest in being intimate with him my sentiments exactly - but all they want to see is "it's wrong to cheat".... i got burned at the stake in another thread months ago for putting forth this pov... it will be intresting to see how the same people respond to you [;)] Divorce, masterbate, or make an agreement to have your need fulfilled. Screwing around shouldn't be an option. Well thank you for dictating to me what my options should be under those conditions. Maybe the options for the witholding spouse should be lobotomy, then they won't even have any emotional reaction to when the cheating even occurs, now there's a thought.

Lordandmaster -> RE: what would you do (6/19/2007 7:01:58 AM)
Come on, Level--all you're showing is that you've never been in a situation like that. Imagine a father with four children, ranging in age from 4 to 15, whose wife decides over time that she's not interested in sex anymore. Are you seriously suggesting that his choices should be divorce, masturbation, or "make an agreement"? I doubt any of those were in his wedding vows. OK, sure, it would be nice to "make an agreement," but we don't live in Never-never-land, and spouses aren't always cooperative. I think it's pretty obvious that the ones who go outside their marriage are the ones who tried to "make an agreement" and couldn't. Anyway, look, I'm not exactly defending cheaters, because it's never a great option. I'm attacking the people who just mindlessly conclude that a cheater has to be a miserable human being whom you could never trust. quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Oh, I meant to respond to this too, it raises an issue that people tend to overlook. If one spouse decides that he or she basically wants to go celibate (and this isn't so rare in American marriages), what exactly is the other spouse supposed to do? Go celibate too? Get divorced? The self-righteous crowd doesn't have much more to offer than those extreme alternatives. Only infants see the world in black and white. (Gotta love that quote.) quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 my exhusband had a g/f and if I ran into her today I would buy her a drink, or lunch or something...because after 20 years I had no real interest in being intimate with him my sentiments exactly - but all they want to see is "it's wrong to cheat".... i got burned at the stake in another thread months ago for putting forth this pov... it will be intresting to see how the same people respond to you [;)] Divorce, masterbate, or make an agreement to have your need fulfilled. Screwing around shouldn't be an option.

KatyLied -> RE: what would you do (6/19/2007 7:20:52 AM)
quote: That's what I'd call a destructive little cunt. Not to mention a jealous has hell little cunt.

slaveluci -> RE: what would you do (6/19/2007 7:23:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears luci i have to say i love your post and have often wondered too about the vehement anger and hostility "cheating" brings out in people. i have often thought it was over the top while other threads which speak of far more serious scenarios go unoticed. Thanks velvet[:)] quote: You have said you were cheated on and you don't hold the same level of anger that you see around you being posted, same here, and i am going to ask you a question, obviously you don't have to answer it and for those of you who feel such deep emotional reactions/feelings to cheating ponder this for yourelf also. Through the pain, anguish, hurt, betrayal you went through by being in a situation where you were cheated on were you able to dig deep inside yourself and take some responsibility for what had happened in your relationship which may have led to the cheating? It's hard to do but a relationship doesn't exist in a vaccuum. Please don't misconstrue what i am asking by thinking i am saying the spouse deserves to be cheated on by something they did, not at all, i am asking you to take a look at the situation in totality and not seperate it into one facet of "cheating" - hope i am making sense and you can understand what i am trying to convey I was able to look inside myself and see if I bore any of the responsibility for what happened and I honestly don't think I did. I won't go into gory details but the situation was basically this: We had no children and I worked fulltime to support us as he couldn't seem to get or keep a job. But, aside from my job, he was my main priority. I did everything I could possibly think of to ensure his happiness (sexually, financially, domestically, etc). It just wasn't enough to keep me his top priority. A couple years back, he told me point-blank that there was nothing I could have done better or differently to keep things from happening the way they did. He took full responsibility for what happened and he doesn't blame me for any of it. So, in my particular situation, I don't take responsibility for the cheating. (I DO take responsibility for being co-dependant and an enabler but that's a whole 'nother thread[;)]). quote: i think in large part the intesne anger is a defense against taking any responsibility for what happened in the relationship which may have led to the cheating. I think that could definitely be a possibility in some situations........luci

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