RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing?

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 4:55:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

agreed level....
having said that, i try to understand that the powers at be may believe that the hate crimes bills would potentially dissaude possible crimes.
its my belief that since many who commit crime, know that they are a simple plea bargain away from a much lesser sentence...a bigger deterrent would be to keep folks in jail the proscribed amount of time.
case in point...here locally a few months back.... a gentlemen got arrested for road rage..(pffft)
during a traffic dispute, he stopped his vehichle, went to the other driver with a can of gasoline, and poured onto him,and inside his car.....thsi gentlemen had a history of violence. the judge let him off with a lil time served,,so muchchecking in with a parole officer (time eludes me) ,,and a fine i think...the jack ass walked outta court!!!!
he should of been jailed on attempted murder.....
and im sure if u look,,and im guesing you will,,it wasnt hate crime related ,,so far as i know they were both white.
but the idea being,,we dont enforce the laws we have now :(

Certainly, many supporters of hate crime legislation honestly feel it's a tool against bigotry, and I don't turn my nose up at them for that; I hate racism. I also have a sneaking hunch that there are more than a few folks (of all races) that see it as a tool for upping their power.

And yes, we often don't use the laws we have; I work in a court, and at times it gets ridiculous.

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 4:56:46 PM

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quote:

ted me

quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

damn :( must be a bitch to be rich and black .....
i wouldnt know,,im just poor and white...
and i wouldnt trade with anyone of any color.....i like me

I agree.. I like me too. All poor and white as well.

Chris Rock is freaking hilarious though.

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 4:59:49 PM

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It was simple at one time. You killed someone, it was murder. Then they had to add if you thought about it before you did it, or not... Somehow that makes a difference to the dead guy. Then they wanted to add some warm and fuzzy laws. This made all the yuppies/liberals/cry babies/ACLU fools feel like they had actually fought crime in some way. Who cares if you killed the person for his $20, or because they where black/white/red/brown? They are dead. Charge them with murder, and put them away for the amount of time a murder conviction calls for. Another 10 years just becuase they killed the victim because they where (incert whatever you want here) is just stupid and arrogant. Making some class or group more "protected" (do you really think criminals think about the special laws over one group or another before committing crimes?) then another by making it worse for someone if they kill a person from that group soley becuase they where this or that? Get over yourselves. You are not special because someone killed you because you where gay or brown. If you want to play things that way, then gangs who kill others from rival gangs should be sentenced under "hate" crimes too. They killed someone because of their clothes/affiliation. Wait...Then we would have to prosecute all murderes under a hate crime. This one was killed becuase he had a car that this person wanted, so he was killed for it. He hated that he didn't have the car. How about the husband that comes home early and catches his wife in bed with someone else? He gets the elevated sentence becuase he killed her and her lover in hate. It really is just stupidity to me. I have never heard of someone murdering someone out of love. You do nothing, really, nothing at all by making these "special" (I think of them as short bus laws...) laws that supposedly protect one group more then anyone else. The only thing you accomplish is confusing the courts, giving lawyers ways to slip their clients through the loop holes with all these laws. To top it off, they are seldom used. Maybe if a politicion wants headlines, otherwise no one really cares if the murder was sentenced under a hate crime law or just sentenced under murder. As long as the killer is off the street. Get over it, the laws are nothing more then headaches for offiers and prosecuters. Murder is murder. Assualt is assualt. No one should get special treatment under the law. It is a slap in the face to others.

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:00:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

is it important to add 10 yrs to someones sentence because they say something during the act of a crime? or because the crime was perpertrated against another race?

I don't support the idea of hate crimes.

Joe Blow takes a black guy into an alley and beats the hell out of him because he doens't like blacks.

Joe Blow takes a white guy into an alley and beats the hell out of him because he's just a vicious asshole.

Joe Blow #1should serve 10 more years than Joe Blow #2? Nope.

The purpose of a hate crime is that you specifically target your vengeance because of the difference of someone else...it is not that in a heated argument you let loose some racial obscenity. It is not because they are an asshole.

I don't believe SubinMaine"s account of her story...I think it is a lie. Or is at least omitting many other facts.

Evening, DG. I still don't see why one is given a higher "value" than the other.

Evening Level, I wish it were not the fact....I have known and even have a few friends that in the past might have had a few too many drinks and kicked someone's ass for no explainable reason....These days are behind them or we wouldn't be buddies.

This is supposed to be a land of somewhat tolerance.....People who target a group out of no other motivation than race or lifestyle have to bear a heavier punishment...it is not the equivalent of me throwing eggs at Mrs McDoogle's house....We live in a land that speaks of liberty and justice for all....For the people that do not respect someone else's liberty then there must be a set of laws to deal with these individuals....As far as justice...they just earned a little more than their fair slice of the pie when it comes to sentencing that person...I can live with it....

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:02:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Azriel308

It was simple at one time. You killed someone, it was murder. Then they had to add if you thought about it before you did it, or not... Somehow that makes a difference to the dead guy. Then they wanted to add some warm and fuzzy laws. This made all the yuppies/liberals/cry babies/ACLU fools feel like they had actually fought crime in some way. Who cares if you killed the person for his $20, or because they where black/white/red/brown? They are dead. Charge them with murder, and put them away for the amount of time a murder conviction calls for. Another 10 years just becuase they killed the victim because they where (incert whatever you want here) is just stupid and arrogant. Making some class or group more "protected" (do you really think criminals think about the special laws over one group or another before committing crimes?) then another by making it worse for someone if they kill a person from that group soley becuase they where this or that? Get over yourselves. You are not special because someone killed you because you where gay or brown. If you want to play things that way, then gangs who kill others from rival gangs should be sentenced under "hate" crimes too. They killed someone because of their clothes/affiliation. Wait...Then we would have to prosecute all murderes under a hate crime. This one was killed becuase he had a car that this person wanted, so he was killed for it. He hated that he didn't have the car. How about the husband that comes home early and catches his wife in bed with someone else? He gets the elevated sentence becuase he killed her and her lover in hate. It really is just stupidity to me. I have never heard of someone murdering someone out of love. You do nothing, really, nothing at all by making these "special" (I think of them as short bus laws...) laws that supposedly protect one group more then anyone else. The only thing you accomplish is confusing the courts, giving lawyers ways to slip their clients through the loop holes with all these laws. To top it off, they are seldom used. Maybe if a politicion wants headlines, otherwise no one really cares if the murder was sentenced under a hate crime law or just sentenced under murder. As long as the killer is off the street. Get over it, the laws are nothing more then headaches for offiers and prosecuters. Murder is murder. Assualt is assualt. No one should get special treatment under the law. It is a slap in the face to others.

Hate crimes encompass more than murder or assault.

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:03:18 PM

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well stated Azriel...

and on a sidenote...CRIS ROCK is the funniest mf"er to come along since i was a child!!!!!!!!
and im an old man these days ;) lol

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:05:53 PM

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For the people that do not respect someone else's liberty then there must be a set of laws to deal with these individuals....As far as justice...they just earned a little more than their fair slice of the pie when it comes to sentencing that person...I can live with it....

special laws,,for special people????

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:06:33 PM

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I don't believe subinmaine's account of her story....Saying that she is a liar is a little strong....But I don't believe her account of what happened to be at all accurate....I usually don't believe everything that I read.

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:07:25 PM

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i think we use to have that in this country,,and we fought long and hard to abolish that trend...civil rights fight in the 60's ring any bells?

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:08:43 PM

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Special laws for special circumstances....We live in a country that is built on the ideal of the American Dream....When someone will try to thwart anothers progress soley because of their differences (racial, sexual preferences) there has to be a way to curb such activities.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 7/3/2007 5:09:05 PM >

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:10:54 PM

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The reality is that these laws should never affect you or me....If I get in a fight with some Hispanic dude it's not going to be because he is Hispanic. End of story.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 7/3/2007 5:11:14 PM >

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:12:11 PM

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there is a way to curb it my friend,,,,procecute them for any real crimes they commit in order to thwart said people.
you cant lock them up for hating,,but when they cross that line...and actualy commit a crime..then procecute to the FULLEST extent of the law
equal protection under the law...(where is fargle when i need him) lol

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:12:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

i think we use to have that in this country,,and we fought long and hard to abolish that trend...civil rights fight in the 60's ring any bells?

It's fine to play the devil's advocate..It's another to be naive or worse.

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:16:07 PM

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I gotta run.... it's been a slice. try not to kill or beat up any minorities tonight because you don't like them...Enjoy the fireworks! I will...On and off of the forum...lol.

All take care.

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:17:57 PM

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hmmmm, whitey,,and naive...why do i get outta bed in the morning?

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:24:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Special laws for special circumstances....We live in a country that is built on the ideal of the American Dream....When someone will try to thwart anothers progress soley because of their differences (racial, sexual preferences) there has to be a way to curb such activities.

Actually, this country was built on the ideal of freedom from England... and more specifically, the Church of England.

"The American Dream" is a load of crap. for anyone... especially these days. Money begets money and if you don't have any, short of hitting Powerball, you aren't gonna have any.

Thwarting progress:
1) The government giving tax breaks to large corporations who farm out to other countries.
2) The government handing out millions of dollars a year to provide minorities with a college education.
3) Companies enforcing "quotas" to make sure their company is PC and "culturally diverse", so I can lose out on a decent-paying position to a minority or female, even if I am more qualified/experienced for that position.
4) The "hate crimes" laws which make it "more fair" for minorities.
5) Did you know illegal immigrants get their emergency medical care paid for by you and I? If I were uninsured and got into a car wreck, my credit gets ruined from the $500 ambulance ride, the multi-thousand dollar ER visit/hospital stay because the job I was forced to take at Subway making $7.50 is the only place that hadn't filled their "white" quota.

Granted, none of us are going to read the other's argument and say "well, he's right and I'm wrong, I'm a born-again bleeding heart! Yayy!", especially on the internet.

If any minority wants to trade places with me for a day, they are more than welcome to. I *promise* you, unless your last name is Bush or Kennedy or Gates or Trump, Joe Whitey doesn't have it any easier than Joe Minority.

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:25:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I gotta run.... it's been a slice. try not to kill or beat up any minorities tonight because you don't like them...Enjoy the fireworks! I will...On and off of the forum...lol.

All take care.

Enjoy the display, and have a happy Fourth.

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:28:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Poor whitey

Pot, Kettle...you know the rest

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
there is a reason that "hate crimes" are treated differently....A murder is a murder...Mathew Shepherd is still dead regardless of the motivations of his attackers...Hate crimes can be much more sublime....They can be misdemeanors or less....Defile a mosque...Burn a cross....a literal campaign of terror that is only out to make the object of your bias uncomfortable feel unwelcome, terrorized and less than human in the "land of the free."

operative phrase: "land of the free"....you're free to refer to the caucasion population as whitey...what makes you better than any one else? Point: You cannot dictate to someone who they can or cannot like, you cannot dictate to someone how they think or feel. You may disagree with them, you may state opinion but you cannot dictate...remember, "land of the free"

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
White people don't understand the need for laws protecting minorities....

Wrong...why? Because of Affirmative Action, white people are very DEFINITELY a minority and are treated as such by "some" (notice i did not say ALL) people of different racial backgrounds.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Immigration....Oh we are so worried about losing our 6-7dollar an hour jobs and what about the cost of care?....For many they are only concerned with the rise in population of the Hispanics in this country...They don't like them. If they could they would formulate a bill to remove them all.

You're right, there ARE some people in this country who would formulate a bill that would remove them all, they are called racists. Refer back to the "whitey" comment.

However most Americans are not concerned with immigration, they are concerned with ILLEGAL immigration.

And yes, some American's are concerned about the $6-$7 an hour jobs because they're citizens (of all races, sizes, genders, orientation and colors) and can't find a job to feed their families.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
It is a shame that these laws are still necessary...but they are....Yes they can be abused.....Poor white people....Why can't we do what we want to do and just be left alone?

Maybe those same laws should apply to you as well? Seems to me that you have an enormous chip on your shoulder and put all the blame on "poor whitey".

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
To SubinMaine...Unlike others here I don't entirely believe your story....I tried to google it couldn't find it....What occurred is a matter of public record....Not trying to step on toes but it would be interesting to find what actually transpired....Cuz I aint buying it.

Considering it was a "fist fight" where no one was murdered and it wasn't even worthy of LOCAL news, let alone national news nor the Associated Press, it wouldn't surprise me that you couldn't Google it up. Considering it happend approximately 15 years ago it REALLY doesn't surprise me you can't "find" it. And, you may believe what you wish, that's your perogative, however i was there, i saw what happened and i nearly shit myself thinking we were going to get shot. Whether or not you "believe" me won't make me lose sleep...after all, i am a "poor whitey" and you've made your disdain for MY race quite evident.

Thank you very much.

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:32:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I don't believe SubinMaine"s account of her story...I think it is a lie. Or is at least omitting many other facts.

i could post his name if i wanted to appease you, however it's not my place and i really don't think he should be "punished" any more than he's already been punished. He was tried, convicted and sentence for Hate Crimes and Malicious Mayhem. He served his time, his punishment is OVER.

Besides, i have no desire to do battle with a mind as closed and, dare i say it, racist as yours. It would be like clapping with one hand, futile.

Believe me a liar if you'd like *smile* again, your opinion will not make me lose sleep.

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RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? - 7/3/2007 5:36:57 PM

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wow....
that got ugly quick...damn shame

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