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RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/9/2007 5:03:38 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveofKaos

quote:

ORIGINAL: viperess

Greetings,
i would have to agree with SirMIkeSD, from a slaves point of view i need to know my boundries and know if i break my word to my Master or do not do all in my power to obey Him that there will be consequences. I also agree with LA, there was nothing saying she could not have gone to see him then next day for some one on one time with her grandfather..there would not have been so many people around and could have enjoyed herself with him.
Respectfully,

The next day was Sunday Master would not have allowed me to see him then due to the fact that its his day off and I'm to spend them with him, then we go in to the week well my grandpa is not home during the day during the week and I would have to be home when Master gets off work so that doesnt always work either. I'm not trying to make excuses for myself or say what I did was right, but I'm simply trying to state what isnt obvious if your not in Master and my relationship.

I don't often say this, but the two of you have more issues than the library of congress. Even the way you talk in your posts, it is not an "us" mentality, it is a "me vs him" or a "her vs me" mentality.

Considering that his demands on your time apprently make it nearly impossible for you to see your Grandfather at any other time, I don't understand why an exception couldn't be made. Intelligent exceptions to the law do not undermine authority in the slightest. This is why you don't always get a ticket when you are pulled over.

Actually, I work full time and presently my slave isn't employed. She has lots of time to see friends and family, but there are certain times I want her available. I even let her go spend half of the 4th with her mom when I'd have prefered to spend the whole day with her. Anytime she wants to see her friends and family when I'm working is fine by me, and even certain times when I have my precious few hours off I let her go. I am lenient in my view if anything.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/9/2007 5:06:13 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie
He should of grabbed this situation by its balls and brought it to his timely conclusion, that is what dominant people do.

Can you elaborate on this? It sounds sexy...

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/9/2007 5:24:49 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian
My slave has pointed out to me that four months, not being a year yet for example, or being married, makes it different.

In her journal the entry marking your ownership of her was made on 5-3-07. I'm not a mathematician but my calculations figure that out to be just a couple of days over 2 months....and those appear to have been a pretty rocky 2 months.

Yeah I'm not sure about that. Jodi doesn't seem to remember either. I might have waited awhile before putting it on collarme. I have gone for months without looking at my collarme profile, it's just recently that I've been using it regularly.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/9/2007 5:32:30 PM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Considering that his demands on your time apprently make it nearly impossible for you to see your Grandfather at any other time, I don't understand why an exception couldn't be made. Intelligent exceptions to the law do not undermine authority in the slightest. This is why you don't always get a ticket when you are pulled over.

Actually, I work full time and presently my slave isn't employed. She has lots of time to see friends and family, but there are certain times I want her available. I even let her go spend half of the 4th with her mom when I'd have prefered to spend the whole day with her. Anytime she wants to see her friends and family when I'm working is fine by me, and even certain times when I have my precious few hours off I let her go. I am lenient in my view if anything.

Yes, you ever so graciously allowed her to spend half her day with the family who has been with her her whole life, when her grandfather is getting older and it's his birthday. Since she says

"The next day was Sunday Master would not have allowed me to see him then due to the fact that its his day off and I'm to spend them with him, then we go in to the week well my grandpa is not home during the day during the week and I would have to be home when Master gets off work so that doesnt always work either. I'm not trying to make excuses for myself or say what I did was right, but I'm simply trying to state what isnt obvious if your not in Master and my relationship."

it certainly looks like it would have been hard to go see her grandfather. Lenient would have, in my opinion at least, going "I understand that family events don't always go as planned. Spend the time with your grandfather this time, but don't let this happpen again."

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/9/2007 5:33:32 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/9/2007 5:38:21 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Considering that his demands on your time apprently make it nearly impossible for you to see your Grandfather at any other time, I don't understand why an exception couldn't be made. Intelligent exceptions to the law do not undermine authority in the slightest. This is why you don't always get a ticket when you are pulled over.

Actually, I work full time and presently my slave isn't employed. She has lots of time to see friends and family, but there are certain times I want her available. I even let her go spend half of the 4th with her mom when I'd have prefered to spend the whole day with her. Anytime she wants to see her friends and family when I'm working is fine by me, and even certain times when I have my precious few hours off I let her go. I am lenient in my view if anything.

Yes, you ever so graciously allowed her to spend half her day with the family who has been with her her whole life, when her grandfather is getting older and it's his birthday. Since she says

"The next day was Sunday Master would not have allowed me to see him then due to the fact that its his day off and I'm to spend them with him, then we go in to the week well my grandpa is not home during the day during the week and I would have to be home when Master gets off work so that doesnt always work either. I'm not trying to make excuses for myself or say what I did was right, but I'm simply trying to state what isnt obvious if your not in Master and my relationship."

it certainly looks like it would have been hard to go see her grandfather. Lenient would have, in my opinion at least, going "I understand that family events don't always go as planned. Spend the time with your grandfather this time, but don't let this happpen again."

Ok, so if that is what lenient would have been, what would strict and hardass have been? I really think I'd rather be a hardass anyway.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/9/2007 5:39:59 PM

Posts: 191
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline

It's just my two cents but your girl was in a bad position where she was torn between the needs of her family and your needs. Negotiating with family is often charged and guilt wielding family members can be a force of nature. She didn't begin being a submissive when she walked in your door, for most of us it's a life long state of being. Her grandfather was who she was living with before you and they were basically using the old man - death card. (It's hard to get more guilt inducing than that.) She didn't keep her word to you and that should be dealt with but that is the smaller issue.

I would say an even tempered kind talk with her about her families style of wielding guilt and how she feels about that would yeild some good and interesting results. Clearly your girl has loyalty as part of her personality and that could bode really well for ya'll long term. She may need some help in finding skills to set better more healthy boundaries with her family. It may be very hard for her to say no to people she loves, including you. If you consider this incidence as an oportunity for both of you to grow, then it could all end up good. Realize that she was in a hard place with a lot of pressure. Just as I'm sure you were telling her, "You said you would be here." I'm sure that they were wielding exactly the same card, "You said you would be here." + a little "Grandpa could die." It may not have been possible for her to keep her word for both. Her loyalties to you are four months old, her loyalties to her family have gone on much longer. Perhaps she thought you would have the strength to understand her choice and work with her to find ways for her to develope the ability to set good boundaries with her family. Perhaps she knew that punishment from you would be rational, and that her family would wield guilt as a weapon over the issue for years to come. (I am making gross assumptions here and could be way off the mark.)

If she had to chose between letting you or her family be dissapointed in her, maybe she trusted you more. Maybe she had faith that you would be able to look at the situation from a wider perspective.

good luck!

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/9/2007 5:45:46 PM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Considering that his demands on your time apprently make it nearly impossible for you to see your Grandfather at any other time, I don't understand why an exception couldn't be made. Intelligent exceptions to the law do not undermine authority in the slightest. This is why you don't always get a ticket when you are pulled over.

Actually, I work full time and presently my slave isn't employed. She has lots of time to see friends and family, but there are certain times I want her available. I even let her go spend half of the 4th with her mom when I'd have prefered to spend the whole day with her. Anytime she wants to see her friends and family when I'm working is fine by me, and even certain times when I have my precious few hours off I let her go. I am lenient in my view if anything.

Yes, you ever so graciously allowed her to spend half her day with the family who has been with her her whole life, when her grandfather is getting older and it's his birthday. Since she says

"The next day was Sunday Master would not have allowed me to see him then due to the fact that its his day off and I'm to spend them with him, then we go in to the week well my grandpa is not home during the day during the week and I would have to be home when Master gets off work so that doesnt always work either. I'm not trying to make excuses for myself or say what I did was right, but I'm simply trying to state what isnt obvious if your not in Master and my relationship."

it certainly looks like it would have been hard to go see her grandfather. Lenient would have, in my opinion at least, going "I understand that family events don't always go as planned. Spend the time with your grandfather this time, but don't let this happpen again."

Ok, so if that is what lenient would have been, what would strict and hardass have been? I really think I'd rather be a hardass anyway.

Strict and hardass would have been showing up and yelling at her in front of her entire family. You may rather be a hardass but clearly it isn't going well in your relationship.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/9/2007 5:52:04 PM

Posts: 191
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

How long into the relationship would you have been expected to obey him in this sort of situation?

As long as it takes for her to develop (with your help) the skills necesarry to do what you ask. It's not really fair to get mad at a horse for being a poor jumper if you've never worked with it to teach it how to jump.

Edit : My apologies, I read your question wrong, but I"ll leave the answer. It's my answer to what I think is fair.

< Message edited by WillowRain -- 7/9/2007 5:54:14 PM >

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/9/2007 6:45:02 PM

Posts: 9
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline

Edited because i forgot to log out of my Masters account...LOL

< Message edited by LordKen -- 7/9/2007 6:46:36 PM >

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/9/2007 7:19:30 PM

lilya

Posts: 8
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

"Since when it being a Master about making the best decision for her? I thought it was about making the best decision for us as a Master/slave couple. It's not always easy following through with that."

Being a Master, one who cares anyway, should always be about making the best decision for your slave/sub, since this is part of your commitment to her and you're the one who's supposedly making most decisions that affect the both of you. At least, that's my understanding, that you expect total and immediate obedience on her part. If that's what you want, you must make sure that the decisions you make are right for her as well, or that at least they don't hurt her.

"When she doesn't want to do somthing, or is in a tough spot, I'd love to be able to get out of that situation of having to decide what to do."

So, you don't want her to be a "selective" submissive but you'd like to be a "selective" Master, to only make decisions when things are going great? Then maybe your commitment to the relationship is not as great as you think it is.

_____________________________

A good Master brings my safeword to the tip of my tongue every time he possesses me but takes me into his tender embrace just as the words are about to escape my trembling lips.

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/9/2007 7:21:26 PM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Ok, so if that is what lenient would have been, what would strict and hardass have been? I really think I'd rather be a hardass anyway.

Strict and hardass would have been showing up and yelling at her in front of her entire family. You may rather be a hardass but clearly it isn't going well in your relationship.

LOL exactly- being a hardass really isn't working so far for you.

And it's fairly obvious at this point you're not really making any sincere efforts to bring yourself into her family and become a solid part of her life in their eyes.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/10/2007 7:43:27 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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During this time, it might be a good idea to bear in mind that there are going to be times when YOU don't behave in the best way possible, too.

Why do you feel uneasy about making a decision in the first place? Are you running before you can walk or are you acknowledging that you are BOTH new to the relationship and you needed the reassurance that she'll trust your decision? Seems a recipe for *wobbliness* on both sides.

agirl

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/10/2007 9:18:11 AM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

During this time, it might be a good idea to bear in mind that there are going to be times when YOU don't behave in the best way possible, too.

Why do you feel uneasy about making a decision in the first place? Are you running before you can walk or are you acknowledging that you are BOTH new to the relationship and you needed the reassurance that she'll trust your decision? Seems a recipe for *wobbliness* on both sides.

agirl

Good point, and well, the reason for my wobbliness is my view is that if she had fundamentally different desires in what sort of relationship or boundries she wants to have, my forcing change on her won't be very effective. I can force the small bits, the details, but the fundaments? I'm not sure that would even work. She says she's thinking right now about whether this relationship is right for her or not, and isn't sure at all currently. Thoughts, anyone? Anyone ever experienced slaves going through somthing like this? And...as is my style to want to know...what works/worked?

Edited to add: She says she could change the way I want her to, but she isn't sure yet if she wants to make that change or not. Her desire seems important here, though I could be wrong. That's why I'm posting. I mean, do some have the school of thought that since she wants this sort of relationship overall, she should be pushed past this even though it is a large objection for her?

< Message edited by akbarbarian -- 7/10/2007 9:20:39 AM >

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/10/2007 9:25:42 AM

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Go reread this entire thread and you'll see gazillions of suggestions already posted on what you should do.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/10/2007 9:45:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian
I can force the small bits, the details, but the fundaments?

Are you pretty good at putting square pegs in round holes?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/10/2007 12:24:37 PM

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Ok, how about ideas from those who are in the dominant role...officially, rather than the opinion from, as I have had it brilliantly stated to my by a source whose anonymity I keep secret "boards as they tend to be a little too female slave dominated and touchy feely for me". How about less touchy feely slave talk, and more from those who have been in management? Sure I've heard opinions, but I mean given the current situation as I've recently updated it, what's to do and have you faced anything similar in the past?

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/10/2007 12:35:58 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

You posted this on the submissive forum - and while this is an open forum and all orientations will respond, you have have shot yourself in your own foot because not everyone checks all the forums. If you wanted a wide range of posters, you would have had more luck in the general bdsm section.

And really - you think these answers are touchy feely?

You don;t seem to comprehend that taking on a slave means responsibility - seriously and I am not being touchy feely here. You are so set on what you want, on her submitting and being 'loyal' you are ignoring your loyalty towards her. You are disregarding the position she is in and placing her in a even more difficult position of possibly having to disobey you because your blinkered to one end and not accepting external influences may cause difficulties in Mastery and slavery.

Peace
the.dark.

and fuck my typing sucks

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 7/10/2007 12:37:35 PM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/10/2007 12:42:01 PM

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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
You don;t seem to comprehend

I'd say that pretty much sums it up. We're 13 pages into this and not even a flicker of comprehension.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/10/2007 12:57:56 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

In a sense, because the OP has a APD I can understand why he is having a hard time comprehending. My suggestion is that you (OP) not ask for suggestions, simply because your disorder wont allow you to accept a POV that you cant comprehend or that doesn;t match your own, so you will end up doing what you want anyway, regardless of the advice given. Thats what a sociopath does. That is why you cannot comprehend jodis difficulties - even though you probably adore her as a slave. Being a dominant with APD isn't impossible, but you are going to put your slave in an awkward position if you can't try and understand. You don't need to empathise - but my question would be - how much does Jodi know and understand your condition? It could make it a hell of alot easier if she does... which - judging from her posts - doesn;t seem she does to me.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 7/10/2007 12:58:30 PM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/10/2007 1:39:00 PM

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
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I'm in an M/s relationship, I'm not the s, and I don't think touchy feely has ever been levelled at me as a descriptor.

I am about to share what I've discovered what I've learned as an adult, not as a mistress nor anything SM related.

Shit happens. I aim to get my way in my M/s relationship 100 percent of the time and I'm damn pleased with 98.9999 or so, it doesn't leave me whining when shit goes down and it's just not going to happen for me that day. I have enough long-term thinking to realize that next time may work better.

If you want human toys, they come with families and obligations, not to mention neuroses, limitations, and frailties. Just like you do.
If you want to keep them, you accept this. If you don't want to accept this, you may be better suited to sticking to owning inanimate objects. Even dogs eventually are going to want to sniff other dogs' butts when it may not be convenient for you.

I have a slave in his 50's with children in college and an ex wife he still deals with. If I feel like he's becoming bogged down in other people's stuff and his boundaries are suffering, I tell him, "wow, you may need a weekend to yourself and just not be so easy to reach." It's a lot more effective than "I forbid you to answer the phone slave!" He might not do any introspection and just think I'm an asshole and be right.

It would simply never occur to me to try and use these NON CONSENTING parties as a means to show my muscle in relation to him. They don't need evidence that I'm in charge of what he does, they don't need to be subject to some lame excuse why he can't show to something important to them because I have a hair up my ass that he needs to be home that day.

You seem to think that any overarching responsibilities that work out in favor of your slave's needs versus your own wants is a disruption of dynamic. H's NEEDS come before my wants. That is the promise that an owner makes to the property. The owner acknowledges that they're going to make sure that the needs of the other person are covered so that they can be served. His wants come after my wants. Family is a need level priority.

Do I ask him to do things he doesn't want to do? You bet. But there's NOTHING I can think of that would be productive in doing so when it comes to his children and immediate family that I can think of. Not a damn thing.

< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 7/10/2007 1:43:32 PM >

(in reply to RCdc)

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