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RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 9:23:25 AM

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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Yes, and as a trainer of horses I can say one thing for certain. If MY favourite riding horse refuses a jump I more than likely know why and how to correct it. If you were to tell me that your horse refused a jump and ask me what you should do, I would answer by asking you a ton of questions that centered around your relationship with your horse. In essense, you would end up answering your own question....IF YOU REALLY WANTED TO HEAR/SEE THE ANSWER. The truth is that without observing you, working with your horse, for a period of time I could not give a solid answer as to why your horse refused to do what you asked it to do for you. Now if I had your horse I could, banning physical problems, get your horse to take the jump for me. That does not mean it will do the same thing for you. Just as you may be able to hop on my horse and accomplish the task with ease and yet, not so on your own horse.

I cannot even guess at the number of times I have worked with a horse or dog owner that was creating the very problem there were trying to fix. This is no different. You have a problem, you want an answer. You are asking all the wrong people. You need to sit down with the person you have the problem with and work it out between the two of you. Relationships with people, whatever the type are much more complex than the horse/rider example, but not without some comparisons. And as Aquatic said, sometimes you just have to switch horses.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 9:24:29 AM

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

If one person tells me I'm doing something I assume it's their particular opinion.
If 87 people are telling me the same thing, unless they all happen to be crazy or UM's and even THEN -- I tend to think maybe there's a point.

How on earth has anyone been vague about anything? You keep coming up with a new reason to dismiss the next person to say the same things rather than say "maybe there's a pattern."

What I would have done:

said to myself, ah crap. Reminded the slave about advance notice whenever possible, but expressed understanding that her family isn't something she can control. Told her to go. Gone to my own or not. Had something simple planned for her to do for me before bed to re-center her in our world. Gone to sleep and gone on with my life.

You asked for what I would have done, that's what I would have done. Complete lack of drama. Other opportunity for me to feel the dynamic without feeling downtrodden because it made sense to let her do something she needed to do that may have disappointed me mildly. Create another outlet, frankly there are better outlets than who goes to what family function to assert myself over.

Honestly, I used to be someone who fought that many battles. All it got me were flares of intestinal disease I'd rather avoid.

< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 7/11/2007 9:27:47 AM >

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 9:27:10 AM

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

akbarb.........The smartest thing you could possibly do is stop typing and read Bita's last post over and over and over again until you have a lightbulb moment.

If you just cannot get it then you really have no business trying to manage someone's life because you are obviously not ready for it.

She gives and expects 100%, she grows a pair, she encourages potential. There is nothing specific here. What is there to understand except that great leadership is inspiring? Well that's a good philosophy, but it's pretty vague as far as how to apply it. We could be talking about sports if you didn't know the context. Oh I'd be cheering behind the rally too then I might ask "so...what are we getting psyched up to do exactly?".

AH HA!!!!!!!! You want the manual that was supposed to come with YOUR sub/slave!!!!!!

Wellllllll, I have good news and I have bad news. The bad news is that there is no manual. The good news, if you communicate with her, the two of you together will find all of the answers.

Gad, I know you really cannot be as stupid as you are appearing! People are not like buying "some assembly required" furniture with a booklet with diagrams and instructions.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 9:29:18 AM

MySweetSubmssive

Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline

Here's specific.

Manage yourself before you manage others. Learn self-control. Understand what's important to your submissive so you have a sense as to what you can ask for and what you can't. Demand as much of yourself as you do of her.

If these are not concrete steps it is because I do not know your situation minutely and because if you need mastery broken down that specifically, it's not going to be effective for you anyway. The critiques people are offering you are pointing to a general problem, rather than problems with specific techniques.

MSS

_____________________________

"Oh, James, you're such a cunning linguist."

--Miss Moneypenny

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 12:04:30 PM

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

Your posts insinuate that you have "the answer", but I haven't heard any specifics. It's all so very vague. Those who "agree with me" are vague. Those who disagree are vague. I'd love to hear specific examples of actual situations.

Don't be wishy-washy. That means, once you make a decision stick with it. Sometimes you'll be wrong, admit it, accept it and move on. Not all the decisions we make in life are going to be the right one, so before you make one, give it thoughtful consideration. Try to view any situation from all angles before coming to your final decision so as to lessen the occurrance of mishaps and mistakes. Having a Plan B in place can save you a lot of grief over the long run but you will never be able to forsee all contingencies.

Don't be afraid of the decisions which you make. Most of the time, if you use your head, follow your heart and trust your gut, the decision 'is' going to be the correct one for the situation and the relationship. For those times when it's not, again, let it go.

Be clear in your instruction and honest in your communication. Don't tell your slave to wash your clothes on Tuesday at 8:00 AM if you know she has to be at the doctors at that time then get pissed off when the clothes aren't washed. Part of being clear is being aware of the circumstances which surround you so pay attention, know what's going on and that happens via communication. You made a decision to go to a party. Later on, the circumstance changed and when things went beyond your control you fell to pieces over it. Well, like I said before, shit happens. You're just going to have to learn to deal with it like an adult and ADAPT. You are not King God Ruler of the World around you.. you are simply Master in one small piece of it, so use your power wisely and well and realize that often times the Universe will be more than happy to show you exactly who is in charge.

Have confidence, be sure of yourself. You are Master. Another person has agreed to adhere to your will so make sure that your will is strong and honest. Give those who would call you Master no options not to do so because they look up to you, admire you, trust your integrity and words, know your actions will always, within your control, follow your words. Listen to your partners, give heed to their advice, their concerns, their worries then make your decisions based on all the current knowledge you have and 'know' in yourself that you've done the best you could with what you've got. You're going to fuck up because you're human, but don't let that ever stop you from just being who you are. You wanted your slave to do something specific and she balked. Well, guess what. Sometimes that happens. You either take the situation in hand or you let things run amok. All the coulda woulda shoulda's don't matter anymore.. it's the 'didn't' that matters and what are you going to do next time with the new information you have is what counts. You can't change the past. The party is over so right now you can either put on a blindfold and you'll go through this again and again.. OR, you can learn from your mistake and have a plan of action in place for the next time. If you can't decide what should be happening, how in the hell can your slave decide for you? Mostly, we just don't do stuff like that or we'd be the Masters and you'd be the slaves.

Act rather than react. If you have a plan of action in place and act on it, then you are not stuck reacting to situations over which you may have no control (although sometimes you have no choice). You made plans to go to a party for your cousin. AFTER those plans were made, your slave came to you and said she wanted to go to a party for her Grandfather. What were your options? You could have said "No, we already have plans." That would suck for her, but it is decisive and it is acting rather than reacting. You could have said, "Ok, your Grandfathers party is more important so we'll go to that one." or "I wasn't invited to your grandfathers party, so you will come to mine." You could have said "Ok, but you need to leave at X:00 PM and meet me at ABC to go to the other party." This is what happened but then you didn't follow through when your slave felt trapped by family pressure and didn't adhere to your will.

Your slave didn't adhere to your will.

YOUR slave didn't adhere to your will.

She's not 'my' slave, she's yours. She needs to be trained by YOU, not me. Her family is important to her .. more important than your will. Sucks for you. What are you going to do about that?

You want a specific situation. Ok, here's one and it's very recent to boot.

My daughter got married on Saturday. It was a great wedding, everyone had a terrific time.. until the cops showed up. One of my daughters friends, I'll call him Rom, got very belligerant and was mouthing off and acting like a fool and was told pretty much categorically by the cops that he was about to get arrested. That didn't stop Rom from spouting off and being stupid. This is not my relative, my kid or my property. That said, I've known him for 20 years. In those 20 years, he has never known me to be inconsistant with my word or to brook nonsense from fools. I took charge, TOLD him exactly what to do without yelling and in such a way as he had no choice but to comply unless he wanted to suffer the consequence of failing to comply to my will (which was to be arrested) and we managed to keep him from getting his ass arrested and got him and his daughter back home safe and sound. I made decisions quickly to fit the circumstance which we were all in and I TRUSTED my own judgement and didn't allow anyone (including my own father) to steer me from my course. That's a very Readers Digest version, but Ownedgirlie was there and can attest to the truth of the situation. The next day, I told my daughters friend that if he ever found himself in a similar situation that I won't bail him out if he is going to insist on acting like a fool. And I won't and if he doesn't change his own behavior, he'll suffer the consequences of that behavior and I won't give it a second thought. I'll say this too, I didn't raise my own kids to behave like that, but if they did, my own flesh and blood, I'd give them their one chance too, then kick them right in the ass for being the fool and if they ended up in jail, so be it. I'm not in this life to save the world and I don't truck with fools.. even fools who I may happen to love or own. The reason I related this to you is because that kid has known me for TWENTY years. So for crying out loud, give you and your slave some fucking TIME to come to your mutual understandings of exactly what you expect from her and what she needs to thrive. Don't try to rush.. there is zero reason for it and much to gain by establishing the truth of your character with her so that, one day, your will becomes more important to her than anything.. but, seriously, you're just not there yet.

I could give you a hundred examples of various situations as I've been doing this for a very long time and have been through a hell of a lot from both sides of the flogger, but I think you can get the gist, if you want, of what I'm saying which is basically if you want to be the Master.. the BE the Master and you will own the slave who deserves the Master which you are.

The exact same thing I said in my first post.

If you don't get it, you don't get it. Unless you are asking for precise, concise instruction on how to be a Master (in which case you are in even more trouble than I thought you were and which I wouldn't give you that sort of instruction anyway), then I don't know how to make any clearer what I've had to say.

All I can do at this point is wish you a hell of a lot of luck. You seem to be open to suggestions but unable to grasp them and you'll have to figure that out for yourself.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 12:14:36 PM

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Gad, I know you really cannot be as stupid as you are appearing!

Never underestimate the stupidity of people.

I know a 25 year old horse who has been a lesson horse for at least the last 15. He's not the first horse you ever get simply because you have to be able to prove to him that you know what you're doing before he'll follow directions. You put somebody who does know what they're doing on him and he's picture perfect, somebody who doesn't won't get any cooperation. One ride on him is worth ten lessons worth of the instructor's talking. My bet is that he would take one look at the op and bite him on the ass.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 1:54:31 PM

StellaByStarlite

Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline

Heheh. Oh, the melodramatic joys of those new relationships. =)

That's not a flame, ak, it's just an observation. Even though the issue at hand is M/s centered, I don't really see too much of a difference in reaction between your's and a newly formed vanilla couple's. Emotions do tend to run a bit high in the early stages, you know?

My husband/dominant and I have dealt with scheduling schnazoos for the past three Christmas seasons. We fully expect to get irritated and annoyed with each other, compromise, bicker, re-schedule, compromise AGAIN, and just generally throw our hands up in the air. Because in the grand scheme of relationships... M/s, or whatever, this kind of stuff is small potatoes.

If you look at it as a scheduling problem and not as some Dire Threat to Your Sacred Master/Slave Dynamic For All Time, then it might seem a bit more workable.

I'm definitely not one to throw out relationship advice, especially on a masseage board, because I firmly believe that the best lessons are the ones people learn themselves. The only thing I have to say is: don't sweat the small stuff. =)

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 4:55:30 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: reticence

Hello Akbarbarian,

What a wonderful opportunity this situation provides you!! This lifestyle sometimes presents us with difficult situations, choices, and the truth is, its much easier to fantasize about it than live it. I am sure your slave is very upset, was being manipulated, pulled from both sides and felt overwhelmed and did not make the best decisions. I think you have a wonderful opportunity to go over the situation, chronologically, point out to her each decision she made, sometimes we have to be shown that not making a decision in a timely manner IS, in fact, making a decsion.
I think discipline might be needed now, but not punishment. Discipline in terms of teaching her.. i define discipline and punishment entirely differently.
Have her write down the entire chain of events that happened, in chronological order, how she felt and why she choose to act as she did at each step.
After you calm down, read what she wrote, digest it, and go over it with her.. bit by bit, guide her and show her how she made emotional decisions, how she was manipulated.. sometimes we just need to see ourselves and our behaviors from another's perspective to learn about ourselves.
It seems this situation is not so much about the parties, it is about communication, teaching her how you want her to behave, how to prioritize. You need to do this calmly, keep your emotions out of it and show her what is expected. There is no better teacher than experience. You have a pragmatic situation here, from which you can both learn. You can earn more respect and trust from her and you can be assured she has the tools to be more self aware next time something like this happens. which will help you trust her more. Explore her feelings, her guilt, her motivations, and the strong manipulative pull of her family as she made each decision. A whole cascade of events unfolded because of micro decisions made under pressure.

Good Luck to both of you.

reticence

I am amazed that this response was overlooked..it needs to be re-highlighted as it ,in my opinion, answers Ak best in an informative, non-judgemental,logical manner....Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to reticence)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 5:48:47 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

The points that you seem to be missing OP, whether you are being deliberately obtuse is a judgement call that you will have to make, as i already have my opinion on that matter, is that she gives as much as she expects to receive, she inspires action instead of demanding it or forcing it through punishment, and she wants the people who have served her in the past, either in a business setting or when she was a Domme to become all that they can be allowing them to grow as people, not trying to force them into a muted clone of herself. Furthermore she is saying that if you want an excellent slave, you must first be an excellent master, gently trying to get you to see that you are failing at the latter so you are not getting the former. Is that clear enough for you??????

heartfelt

(sorry jodi for adding to this thread, i didn't want to add to what in my opinion is an undeserved punishment.

And all the sub or slave has to do is show up, got it.
And provide the gift of submission.
Anything that goes wrong is the M/D's fault.
I think I've heard this one before.
Of course I think I could be doing better, I'm just not set on a course of action yet.
I would like specific examples of situations people have been in that relate to this, with details, presented as a story rather than a concept or "rightness".
Otherwise all we have is a case of "my way is better than your way".
Sure it's easy to point out the flaws in my way, right now things aren't working!
That's not an accomplishment, that's kicking a man when he's down.
Am I really so unclear in what I'm asking for?
I broke it down for someone earlier.
Caveman-speak like.

< Message edited by akbarbarian -- 7/11/2007 5:55:12 PM >

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 5:58:18 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Actually, I don't think the answers here have been vague at all but let me try to condense it for you. Your hardass style of mastery clearly isn't working for this master/slave relationship. You need to learn that just as there are many styles of mastery; not every style will work for every slave, no matter how many times you bang both your heads against the wall. Allow me to use an equestrian analog...

Switch training styles or switch horses.

Still too vague?

I like this analogy.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 6:02:49 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

What I would have done:
said to myself, ah crap. Reminded the slave about advance notice whenever possible, but expressed understanding that her family isn't something she can control. Told her to go. Gone to my own or not. Had something simple planned for her to do for me before bed to re-center her in our world. Gone to sleep and gone on with my life.

I like your "best practice" example. Though it's hypothetical since you're putting yourself in my shoes rather than recanting an experince of yours, it seems practical.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to Grlwithboy)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 6:03:16 PM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

The points that you seem to be missing OP, whether you are being deliberately obtuse is a judgement call that you will have to make, as i already have my opinion on that matter, is that she gives as much as she expects to receive, she inspires action instead of demanding it or forcing it through punishment, and she wants the people who have served her in the past, either in a business setting or when she was a Domme to become all that they can be allowing them to grow as people, not trying to force them into a muted clone of herself. Furthermore she is saying that if you want an excellent slave, you must first be an excellent master, gently trying to get you to see that you are failing at the latter so you are not getting the former. Is that clear enough for you??????

heartfelt

(sorry jodi for adding to this thread, i didn't want to add to what in my opinion is an undeserved punishment.

And all the sub or slave has to do is show up, got it.
And provide the gift of submission.
Anything that goes wrong is the M/D's fault.
I think I've heard this one before.

Think of it like training a dog or a horse. Ever seen the show "It's me or the dog"? 9 times of 10 the dog's bad behavior, even biting, is because of the owner.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 6:04:40 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

akbarb.........The smartest thing you could possibly do is stop typing and read Bita's last post over and over and over again until you have a lightbulb moment.

If you just cannot get it then you really have no business trying to manage someone's life because you are obviously not ready for it.

She gives and expects 100%, she grows a pair, she encourages potential. There is nothing specific here. What is there to understand except that great leadership is inspiring? Well that's a good philosophy, but it's pretty vague as far as how to apply it. We could be talking about sports if you didn't know the context. Oh I'd be cheering behind the rally too then I might ask "so...what are we getting psyched up to do exactly?".

AH HA!!!!!!!! You want the manual that was supposed to come with YOUR sub/slave!!!!!!

Wellllllll, I have good news and I have bad news. The bad news is that there is no manual. The good news, if you communicate with her, the two of you together will find all of the answers.

Gad, I know you really cannot be as stupid as you are appearing! People are not like buying "some assembly required" furniture with a booklet with diagrams and instructions.

LOL, I've actually tried writing a sort of manual for me when someone didn't seem to "get me". That was awhile ago, but it's funny to think back on.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 6:06:34 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

Here's specific.

Manage yourself before you manage others. Learn self-control. Understand what's important to your submissive so you have a sense as to what you can ask for and what you can't. Demand as much of yourself as you do of her.

If these are not concrete steps it is because I do not know your situation minutely and because if you need mastery broken down that specifically, it's not going to be effective for you anyway. The critiques people are offering you are pointing to a general problem, rather than problems with specific techniques.

MSS

This isn't the issue. I can totally demonstrate what I'm asking for, but what's important is whether it works for her not whether it works for me. She didn't think she could deep throat a dildo until I demonstrated, and then, in embarrassment at not being able to, she tried harder and found she could after all. I don't mind leading by example, but people aren't always ready to follow.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to MySweetSubmssive)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 6:18:26 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: reticence

Hello Akbarbarian,

What a wonderful opportunity this situation provides you!! This lifestyle sometimes presents us with difficult situations, choices, and the truth is, its much easier to fantasize about it than live it. I am sure your slave is very upset, was being manipulated, pulled from both sides and felt overwhelmed and did not make the best decisions. I think you have a wonderful opportunity to go over the situation, chronologically, point out to her each decision she made, sometimes we have to be shown that not making a decision in a timely manner IS, in fact, making a decsion.
I think discipline might be needed now, but not punishment. Discipline in terms of teaching her.. i define discipline and punishment entirely differently.
Have her write down the entire chain of events that happened, in chronological order, how she felt and why she choose to act as she did at each step.
After you calm down, read what she wrote, digest it, and go over it with her.. bit by bit, guide her and show her how she made emotional decisions, how she was manipulated.. sometimes we just need to see ourselves and our behaviors from another's perspective to learn about ourselves.
It seems this situation is not so much about the parties, it is about communication, teaching her how you want her to behave, how to prioritize. You need to do this calmly, keep your emotions out of it and show her what is expected. There is no better teacher than experience. You have a pragmatic situation here, from which you can both learn. You can earn more respect and trust from her and you can be assured she has the tools to be more self aware next time something like this happens. which will help you trust her more. Explore her feelings, her guilt, her motivations, and the strong manipulative pull of her family as she made each decision. A whole cascade of events unfolded because of micro decisions made under pressure.

Good Luck to both of you.

reticence

I am amazed that this response was overlooked..it needs to be re-highlighted as it ,in my opinion, answers Ak best in an informative, non-judgemental,logical manner....Tempting

It seemed like a good idea. I pretty much tried this, but it didn't go very well. She more or less tells me she's pissed that I even asked her to skip the dinner at her grandpa's, and that's about it. Sometimes it seems hard to get what I want across, because she gets worked up and I don't get words in edgewise. I can get her to hush now and then, but it's really not very smooth communication. Kind of like her emotions run on open throttle, and to keep from hitting the wall, I periodically apply brakes. Open throttle, brakes, open throttle, brakes, or if I don't, just open throttle and before long she's likely too pissed to even talk anymore.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 6:20:06 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

The points that you seem to be missing OP, whether you are being deliberately obtuse is a judgement call that you will have to make, as i already have my opinion on that matter, is that she gives as much as she expects to receive, she inspires action instead of demanding it or forcing it through punishment, and she wants the people who have served her in the past, either in a business setting or when she was a Domme to become all that they can be allowing them to grow as people, not trying to force them into a muted clone of herself. Furthermore she is saying that if you want an excellent slave, you must first be an excellent master, gently trying to get you to see that you are failing at the latter so you are not getting the former. Is that clear enough for you??????

heartfelt

(sorry jodi for adding to this thread, i didn't want to add to what in my opinion is an undeserved punishment.

And all the sub or slave has to do is show up, got it.
And provide the gift of submission.
Anything that goes wrong is the M/D's fault.
I think I've heard this one before.

Think of it like training a dog or a horse. Ever seen the show "It's me or the dog"? 9 times of 10 the dog's bad behavior, even biting, is because of the owner.

People are alot more complicated than dogs and horses.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 6:23:44 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite

Heheh. Oh, the melodramatic joys of those new relationships. =)

That's not a flame, ak, it's just an observation. Even though the issue at hand is M/s centered, I don't really see too much of a difference in reaction between your's and a newly formed vanilla couple's. Emotions do tend to run a bit high in the early stages, you know?

My husband/dominant and I have dealt with scheduling schnazoos for the past three Christmas seasons. We fully expect to get irritated and annoyed with each other, compromise, bicker, re-schedule, compromise AGAIN, and just generally throw our hands up in the air. Because in the grand scheme of relationships... M/s, or whatever, this kind of stuff is small potatoes.

If you look at it as a scheduling problem and not as some Dire Threat to Your Sacred Master/Slave Dynamic For All Time, then it might seem a bit more workable.

I'm definitely not one to throw out relationship advice, especially on a masseage board, because I firmly believe that the best lessons are the ones people learn themselves. The only thing I have to say is: don't sweat the small stuff. =)

I've heard the pros and cons to this. There are times Jodi will tell me "if you weren't so demanding and pushing me this fast, I wouldn't be with you right now" and other times she asks for time just like many on the board do. I could dilute what I've got going on, mellow myself, and water me down somewhat, but whatever I do has to come with some sort of plan. You know that "dom drug", serotonin? Well, it hits you hard in a fluctuation when you expect yielding where it doesn't occur. If she wants to negotiate with me for time and watered down-ness until we've known each other longer, well, she hasn't brought that up.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to StellaByStarlite)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 6:47:52 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

I suppose the worst thing I could do if I act in accordance with my nature is be true to myself, isn't it? I was hesitating because I've seen things happen in the past that led to an ending of a relationship, and had a real sense of dejavu this week. "Maybe it's not me it's them". You know, it's funny but people on this thread have mostly been telling me about how this is all my fault, my doing, and so on, but maybe what I really need is the confidence to make a mistake or not. To take the risks needed by asserting what I am and am not willing to accept from others, her in this case. I was doing anything but saying "It's got to be her", I was hesitating because I was saying "maybe it's me". If I let Jodi tell me how to treat her, I'd never have gotten anywere with her and we have come a ways since we started even though when we write it's been about this crisis or that. The news, you know, it's usually bad. It doesn't report on the pretty flowers that bloom very often even though they do.

< Message edited by akbarbarian -- 7/11/2007 6:48:49 PM >

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 6:51:26 PM

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

The points that you seem to be missing OP, whether you are being deliberately obtuse is a judgement call that you will have to make, as i already have my opinion on that matter, is that she gives as much as she expects to receive, she inspires action instead of demanding it or forcing it through punishment, and she wants the people who have served her in the past, either in a business setting or when she was a Domme to become all that they can be allowing them to grow as people, not trying to force them into a muted clone of herself. Furthermore she is saying that if you want an excellent slave, you must first be an excellent master, gently trying to get you to see that you are failing at the latter so you are not getting the former. Is that clear enough for you??????

heartfelt

(sorry jodi for adding to this thread, i didn't want to add to what in my opinion is an undeserved punishment.

And all the sub or slave has to do is show up, got it.
And provide the gift of submission.
Anything that goes wrong is the M/D's fault.
I think I've heard this one before.
Of course I think I could be doing better, I'm just not set on a course of action yet.
I would like specific examples of situations people have been in that relate to this, with details, presented as a story rather than a concept or "rightness".
Otherwise all we have is a case of "my way is better than your way".
Sure it's easy to point out the flaws in my way, right now things aren't working!
That's not an accomplishment, that's kicking a man when he's down.
Am I really so unclear in what I'm asking for?
I broke it down for someone earlier.
Caveman-speak like.

Where pray tell did I ever say that all the submissive has to do is show up and give a "gift" of submission. That is so far not only from what i believe but also what i said. What i was attempting to do in my post was to "clarify" for you as it apparently was initially too vague for you to grasp what Celeste had said in her post, which she did extremely well herself in her followup post.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Being loyal to your word - 7/11/2007 6:58:04 PM

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

You know that "dom drug", serotonin? Well, it hits you hard in a fluctuation when you expect yielding where it doesn't occur.

No, that's adrenal.

I usually go work out now, I used to yell and slam doors, but it doesn't become me as well.

It's so weird, but I tend to get what I wanted more often now.

< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 7/11/2007 7:10:29 PM >

(in reply to akbarbarian)

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