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Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 8:18:49 AM

raynchk

Posts: 3
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline

I am directing this question to those with long experience in this lifestyle...

I have a theory/belief that comes from C'han Buddhism. It goes something like this: when one achieves enlightenment (or self realization) there is a blending of the yin and yang energies and one becomes fully self-contained. The need for relationships (with the same or opposite sex) is gone, and one is left to experience the internal bliss of meditation and cavorting with internal archetypical energies of the psyche or *God* realization as some choose to describe it.

Putting the above thought into the realm of bdsm, I wonder if the growth that comes from roleplay, the acting out of fantasies and having needs met transports one to a place where D/s relationships are no longer necessary. Do you eventually outgrow all this stuff or does the 'rope work' just become more intricate and complex along with our partners? Simplistically: Once a Master/dom/sub/slave always a Master/dom/sub/slave?

I know that being human has to do with growth and development, with learning about oneself and others, eventually exchanging one set of challenges for another more complex set of challgenges -- and eventually -- one would hope, resulting in a mellowing of the spirit and an appreciation for what one encounters along the way.

Post #: 1

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 9:01:18 AM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

I highly doubt I will out grow BDSM as a whole, I may meld into different needs and wants; I will grow and flourish but to not need or want the skeletal (read framework) aspects is highly unlikely. It is even less likely that I will ever become so "zenlike" that I don't want human contact. I thrive on that. While I love myself and can live with just myself quite nicely I want more and highly doubt that will ever stop.

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 2

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 9:03:20 AM

cjenny

Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline

I used to think about this but with a slight variation. To me my dom or master is also my teacher/mentor/guide. I had the worry that one day there would be no more I could learn from a particular person, that the personal growth achieved with him would eventually reach its peak.
So far it has been a fruitless worry. I've been his for about 7 years and there is no end in sight

of the things he can teach me both about myself, and the world.

As to outgrowing the bondage aspect/ the physical aspect that hasn't happened either. I think part of why that hasn't happened with us is that we are primarily a LDR. If we were not in an LDR I sincerely believe that HE would be the one to tire of it because I can't 'keep up'. Heh a minor session leaves me with the requirement that I go sleep for hours. I'm sure anyone would become frustrated or bored with me in that situation.

Thankies for posting this topic, it is an interesting one and something I do think about.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.

~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 3

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 9:04:32 AM

daddysliloneds

Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline

i can't outgrow my true nature anymore than i can outgrow the need for the air that i breathe.

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 4

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 10:26:51 AM

Cloudz

Posts: 836
Joined: 9/13/2005
Status: offline

raynchk,

This is one of the more thought provoking threads I have seen. I would agree that the point of doing anything is to grow and learn. BDSM is no different. However to outgrow the desire...hmmm. I would say in my case, the answer is no. To put it in very simplistic terms that is like outgrowing the desire to eat or drink, in my world at any rate. It is a need that must be met.

_____________________________

Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 5

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 10:44:29 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

The NEED for relationships is gone, meaning you do not need external attachments or approvals- that doesn't mean you still won't ENJOY relationships for what they are and what you can experience within them.

That being said, yes MANY people get into kink to fill some void or need in them, and can often work issues out through kink. Eventually they find that it no longer serves them and they move on to other things.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Cloudz)

Post #: 6

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 11:46:24 AM

RaynaSub

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline

Very interesting topic, Raynchk.
I have outgrown many aspects of this lifestyle already.
I enjoy my relationship with my Master, and we have a relationship that works for us.
Neither one of us feels the needs to follow a set of rules, that many here seem to follow.
I am not into any form of serious abuse or pain, and he is not into that either.
I serve him with love and he is a gentle and kind Master.
I don't think I will ever outgrow a relationship that fits my needs.

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 7

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 1:26:22 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

I've been feeding my body's need for food for years, haven't outgrown it yet. Same with sex.

Now if you do WIITWD as a form of therapy, then certainly you could resolve the issues and no longer need to engage in the psychodrama that brought you here. As far as bondage? I still plain love it. In about the same way I still love chocolate ice cream and I've been indulging in that a lot longer and haven't outgrown it yet.

(in reply to RaynaSub)

Post #: 8

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 1:57:34 PM

VeryMercurial

Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

Outgrow BDSM? Never!
Many of the people in the lifestyle?
Surely

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 9

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 2:03:30 PM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline

Most interesting.

My question is this. As we grow and change, we discover new facets of our Selves. Once you are in tune with the Self, and have the yin and yang perfectly blended so as to not need to form outside attachments, would there come a time that the Self says, "I need others"?

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

Post #: 10

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 2:04:10 PM

MistressGala

Posts: 13
Joined: 7/2/2007
Status: offline

Recall the stories of the gay couple and the gerbil. Have such people done every possible kink and become bored then look for something new that will get their hearts racing? You have not introduced a simple question here but rather a topic as convoluted as the varied personalities of people in kink.

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

Post #: 11

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 4:31:49 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

I think if your personal dominance or submission really is about playing a role, you'll tire of it; it's human nature. However, if you have a primal need to control or be controlled by your partner then I think that stays with you for life. How you express that may well change, for eg, I'm not so into elaborate bondage that may take me over an hour to tie properly, anymore.

Don't know much about Buddhism and I don't mean to be flippant but when I read your "theory/belief", it kinda felt like "enlightenment" had been achieved once the body was no longer willing or able anymore. IE, meditation, internal bliss and energies etc is all that's left....

We all change and adapt with age - and I can still have my submissive blissfully bound and utterly helpless with just a few minutes of ropework. And if I am in the (rare) mood for something more complicated, the discreet digital camera is perfect for saving the experience.

Focus.

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 12

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 5:52:09 PM

classykindasassy

Posts: 291
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline

To OP -

I too have incorporated Buddhist thought into my spiritual life and practice. I totally get what you point to, and I can see that for you, this is a real experience you're having. I read thru the posts to this point and quite simply, many folks who identify in BDSM are not going to find a differentiation such as you do. But I do definitely see how this would occur in YOUR experience.

I can't say how it all will end up for me, but I have used BDSM in my life as a tool in my personal growth, to challenge fixed ideas I've had about what I think is "true" or "real". I have found that "truth" is entirely malleable. I may one day outgrow certain aspects of it. What is really interesting to me is to observe the shifts I have experienced - things I would never have allowed are now things I easily allow. My ability to have this happen inside BDSM is something I have brought to life experiences all over the rest of my life. And like other posters have said, there are certain aspects that I feel are a part of my nature.

Interesting question.

_____________________________

"The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." -The Indigo Girls

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 13

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 5:52:45 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

That which is painful for the body is often good for the soul.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 14

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 6:08:40 PM

DommeChains

Posts: 415
Joined: 3/23/2006
Status: offline

See, this is one aspect of Buddism I have never seen as desirable.....the achieving enlightment and becoming fully self contained and communing not with others of this earthly plane but rather an inward monologue. My intention is not to be disrespectful of your spiritual path. For me the greatest joy in this world is communing with, connecting to another. And BDSM is, for me, one of the most delightful ways to make that connection.

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 15

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 8:33:57 PM

PAsextoy4u

Posts: 58
Joined: 9/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: raynchk

I am directing this question to those with long experience in this lifestyle...

I have a theory/belief that comes from C'han Buddhism. It goes something like this: when one achieves enlightenment (or self realization) there is a blending of the yin and yang energies and one becomes fully self-contained. The need for relationships (with the same or opposite sex) is gone, and one is left to experience the internal bliss of meditation and cavorting with internal archetypical energies of the psyche or *God* realization as some choose to describe it.

Putting the above thought into the realm of bdsm, I wonder if the growth that comes from roleplay, the acting out of fantasies and having needs met transports one to a place where D/s relationships are no longer necessary. Do you eventually outgrow all this stuff or does the 'rope work' just become more intricate and complex along with our partners? Simplistically: Once a Master/dom/sub/slave always a Master/dom/sub/slave?

I know that being human has to do with growth and development, with learning about oneself and others, eventually exchanging one set of challenges for another more complex set of challgenges -- and eventually -- one would hope, resulting in a mellowing of the spirit and an appreciation for what one encounters along the way.

WOW, what a thought provoking question! I only have about 5 years real time experience, so I hope you dont mind me replying. I have studied other spiritual belief systems, including Buddhsm.  And I have been into holistic healing, both as a receiver and a practitioner for several years.

Just in these last 5 years I have grown so much, both emotionally and spiritually. I am a much stronger, more confident woman now. I dont need people the way I did in the past. And I dont need as many "things" in my life as I used to.

In the beginning, my explorations were more about the physical, wanting to experience spankings, floggings, all kinds of physical play. I wanted and needed the physical kinds of play.

Now, I focus on the energy dynamics of play, on using energy techniques to heighten the pleasure and sensations for me and whoever I am playing with.   I do alot more meditation before, during, and after "play" sessions.

What you suggest is something I will have to think more about. I certainly have seen how I have changed just in 5 years. In some ways, I would say I am more self contained and more self sufficient than ever before. Who knows what the future will hold for me.  And I have wondered if this is something that will meet my needs and wants throughout my life.

I would like to discuss this more with you, if you are interested in doing so. Thanks for bringing up this different perspective!

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 16

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 8:36:20 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

Dear Raynchk,

I have found that my experience morphed over time. It's no longer about the toys, what we wear, the clubs or crowds. There is a serenity between my slave and I..a feeling of 'arrival". It could be our age or being in this for 11 years. A look or a touch does what whiups and chains did in the past. It's kind of nice :)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 17

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 8:44:44 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I think if your personal dominance or submission really is about playing a role, you'll tire of it; it's human nature. However, if you have a primal need to control or be controlled by your partner then I think that stays with you for life. How you express that may well change, for eg, I'm not so into elaborate bondage that may take me over an hour to tie properly, anymore.

Don't know much about Buddhism and I don't mean to be flippant but when I read your "theory/belief", it kinda felt like "enlightenment" had been achieved once the body was no longer willing or able anymore. IE, meditation, internal bliss and energies etc is all that's left....

We all change and adapt with age - and I can still have my submissive blissfully bound and utterly helpless with just a few minutes of ropework. And if I am in the (rare) mood for something more complicated, the discreet digital camera is perfect for saving the experience.

Focus.

As usual I agree with Focus.
There is a big difference between those of us that want to live this way, because
THIS is who we are;
Than those that are in this lifestyle primarily to have fun, scene and play reindeer games.
I am Dominant pretty much from the cradle to the grave, regardless of whether I have a submissive or not.

Some of us can't just switch/or change or just go back to being vanilla, like we change our clothes.
Focus.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 7/8/2007 8:54:06 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 18

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 8:56:24 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

THAT comes from Ch'an Buddhism? What have you been reading? Yin and yang aren't even Buddhist concepts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: raynchk

I have a theory/belief that comes from C'han Buddhism. It goes something like this: when one achieves enlightenment (or self realization) there is a blending of the yin and yang energies and one becomes fully self-contained.

(in reply to raynchk)

Post #: 19

RE: Outgrowing BDSM - 7/8/2007 8:58:33 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

Outgrow BDSM? Never!
Many of the people in the lifestyle?
Surely

I totally agree and can relate to THIS.
The lifestyle for me is what happens in my home.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

Post #: 20

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