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RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 2:16:49 PM

Posts: 447
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: Ontari-ari-o
Status: offline

Ya know, anyone can do whatever the hell it is they want to do with their bodies.... as long as they've got the bucks/pounds/yen/francs whatever, in the bank to pay for the cleanup costs themselves when something goes wrong, and don't rely on my involuntary tax donations to the government healthcare system, or my health insurance premiums to bail them out. Oh yes, and have suffcient assets to take care of any dependents so that they don't end up in the welfare state poor things. After all, I doubt they will have given consent, aware or otherwise.

And for Lewcifer's benefit, 'cos the lad loves his latin lingo: Semper in excreto, solum profundum variat.

_____________________________

Thinking Kitten

If you can't stand the heat... tell the chef to get out of the kitchen.

(in reply to Lewcifer)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 2:19:46 PM

Posts: 1830
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lewcifer

quote:

ORIGINAL: zindyslave
I have no problems with someone using hooks in suspension play it is the simple fact that a woman most likely will get a serious infection from having an open path from the vagina and rectum. I know that most kinks in the lifestyle are medically unacceptable but the fact of the matter is, most would not do something similar to the picture. Esspecially if they had known people that had went through an infection that is caused by feces in the vagina. I am not disparaging anyone for their kink I was just stating that it isn' t healthy, some people might not have known that...that is why I mentioned it. Everyone is entitled to there kinks but as these boards sometimes help people learn then I think it is best to point out the problems that can arise from said activity so they can be aware of the risks involved.

The point remains... your characterization of this particular kink as unhealthy, while attempting to characterize bruising (and now, apparently suspension play) as healthy is disingenuous and hypocritical. You clearly stated bruising was not unhealthy, because everyone gets bruised unintentionally. People also get hit by cars unintentionally... that, per-se, does not make it a healthy activity. The fact remains (please feel free to factually refute it) - intentional bruising for the sake of bruising (such as during flogging, caning, spanking, etc) is medically unhealthy.

That being said, you object to fissure hooking because if done wrong it can lead to possible vaginal infection. Yet you condone needle play and body hook suspension. Using your same arguments - needle play, if done wrong, can lead to a build-up of scar tissue or worse if blood vessels are pierced. Likewise, body hook suspension carries the same risks, along with the possibility of tearing and associated infection.

You further attempt to justify your statement by saying that some people on this board might not realize fissure hooking isn't healthy. Yet you make no attempt to notify them of the unhealthy effects of flogging, spanking, or other activites you seem to partake in... I've even searched your previous posts. Your recent comments lead me to believe you are convinced these activities are healthy. Nothing can be further from the truth, and self-denial is no substitute for risk awareness.

I sincerely believe you have a hypocritical double-standard, which you fail to see even when rolled out in front of you.

Your original reply was to zindyslave. nephandi's question was a separate post, and has good points which would seem to deserve an answer, even if you are awaiting a further reply from zindyslave on her post. I'd still be interested to hear your response to her.

_____________________________

A true lady takes off her dignity with her clothes and does her whorish best. At other times you can be as modest and dignified as your persona requires. Robert Heinlein

The last thing I want to do is hurt you...but it is still on my list.

(in reply to Lewcifer)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 2:40:30 PM

Posts: 601
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~
The reason I say it is dangerous and this is the last time I am posting in regards to Lewcifer...is because it can cause many, many problems with a female one of which is http://women.webmd.com/Women-Medical-Reference/sexual-health-your-guide-to-pelvic-inflammatory-disease
Pelvic Inflammatory Disease is a very serious condition that women can get from many bacteria that enters the vagina if it travels into the uterus, it can cause infertility which is in my opinon very damaging to a woman unless of course she doesn't plan on having kids, after the activity that caused PID.
Furthermore, I wasn't backpeddling I was stating what I had been the whole time maybe it was more clear in that post than the previous ones. I don't know how well you were reading it or otherwise. But this whole argument has became reduntant. As I said everyone has there kinks as they are entitled to them. I just know that this one kink is very dangerous. Thats it..I am done arguing.

_____________________________

http://www.myspace.com/zindygirl

Only when you see the invisible can you do the impossible.

(in reply to nyrisa)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 2:42:35 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

And I would question why someone would want to do that to another person.

Because it's really hot?

quote:

Particularly a male doing this to a female.

Why is it worse for a man to do it to a woman than for a woman to do it to a man?
Particularly when the party on the receiving end consents to it?

quote:

I mean.. is there a similar way to effect both anus and urinal tract in a male?

If you reexamine the picture, you will see that the hook does not pass through the uretha.
But, yes, similar things can be done for a man; remember that the tissue is fairly similar.
In men, the labia etc become the scrotum, while the clitoris becomes the penis.
However, a man risks a prostate infection, not just a urinary tract infection.
It would be riskier to do it for a man, as far as I can tell, but IANAMD.
Also, a prostate infection is harder to treat, and may need surgery.
It's kind of like a cluster of hundreds of small boils inside you.
A vaginal or urethal infection is a matter of antibiotics.
Complications can happen for both, of course.

quote:

I would still say HELL NO and here is the door if it came up as something to do for the sake of kink.

Seems a bit harsh.
BDSM speed dating?
A: "I like sex with men..."
B (interrupts): "Okay, I'm a woman, so get lost."
A: "But, wait! I like sex with women too."
B (not listening): "Next!"

Like with vanilla relationship, one doesn't need to have every interest (or kink) in common.
If you don't like a particular kink, don't engage in it.
Why judge those who do like it?

Unless they're forcing you, of course. Then I quite get the "get lost" bit.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Missokyst)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 2:42:58 PM

Posts: 601
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lewcifer

-- This space intentionally left blank --

< Message edited by nephandi -- 7/19/2007 1:17:01 PM >

< Message edited by zindyslave -- 7/19/2007 1:17:07 PM >

when did I edit my posts...I can't find it so obviously that was wrong.

_____________________________

http://www.myspace.com/zindygirl

Only when you see the invisible can you do the impossible.

(in reply to Lewcifer)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 2:45:09 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bbwslit2use
Someone can Hook me up!

With chocolate, or a fissure hook?

If you're either in Norway, we can do either or both.

Well, except I don't have the skills to do the latter safely.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to bbwslit2use)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 2:57:32 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

Hello, Lewcifer.

This practice interests me a fair bit, so I will send you a PM about that, if you don't mind.

quote:

You miss the point, and instead resort to reductio ad absurdum to avoid addressing my clear and concise statement.

While I see your position, I think you are missing hers, as well.

She was stating that it's okay for person A to say that they won't engage in act X while they will engage in act Y because they consider the risks associated with X unacceptable and the risks associated with Y acceptable. That, and she tried to say that there is a continuum of risk, ranging from negligible to likely fatal, with various activities spaced along this continuum.

Fissure hooking does have an associated risk, as any activity.
That level of risk may be acceptable to person B, but not to person A.
The risk for fissure hooking is arguably higher than the risk of, let's say, spanking.

And a reductio ad absudum is a fallacy on the part of the one making the argument that is reduced, not on the part of the person reducing it. If an argument leads to a position that is absurd or unsupportable, then there is a flaw in the argument. I do not see that there is a flaw in the arguments here, only the means of communicating them; this on both sides.

quote:

I will not dignify your response with further commentary.

Considering she is actually on your side, in the sense of supporting your practice, that's odd.

quote:

PS - How much did your ears appraise for when you had them priced?

My nephandi is dyslexic and not a native speaker of English, as I believe her profile points out. I don't know how well your spelling is in Arabic, but if you had dyslexia, I suspect it would be similar.

From the context, it should be obvious she meant to say "pierced", as the spelling is correct slightly further down. To argue against hypocrisy, then accuse someone of avoiding the point, then go for their spelling, seems flawed, to me.

quote:

PPS - I once had a girlfriend with a crooked hole, technically. She had a tipped uterus.

I don't get what you mean by this. Care to explain?

Kind regards,
Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Lewcifer)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 3:12:05 PM

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Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

Choosing this part because the rest was redundant..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Like with vanilla relationship, one doesn't need to have every interest (or kink) in common.
If you don't like a particular kink, don't engage in it.
Why judge those who do like it?

Unless they're forcing you, of course. Then I quite get the "get lost" bit.

I believe that is exactly what I said in passing on a partner who wants to do this. I CHOOSE to pass, therefore I am not engaging in it. I don't care what other people do. If they want to be infected fine. That is their acceptance of the risk. I CHOOSE not to engage in it.
And I also choose to have an opinion. Everyone does. As humans we will judge what is acceptable for us. As humans we can shake our heads and wonder why someone will take that risk. How someone sees that as an insult to what they do, I will never understand. I don't need those sort of affirmations from strangers to feel good about what I do. But what ever.
I, for instance, do not fly. And It makes me nervous when my kids fly, but they do anyway. I can shake my head and say "no way do I want to fly" and that is not a a condemnation on them or their flying ways. It is simply my opinion on flying.
As humans we have a right to an opinion.
I would dismiss someone who wanted to do this to me because I know, it is beyond the level of kink I want to employ.
I have that right.
Just as you have the right to find a partner who is ok with it. And guess what? That is OK! I don't have to play, so it's not a big deal to me.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 3:28:23 PM

Posts: 1830
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

I would still say HELL NO and here is the door if it came up as something to do for the sake of kink.

Seems a bit harsh.
BDSM speed dating?
A: "I like sex with men..."
B (interrupts): "Okay, I'm a woman, so get lost."
A: "But, wait! I like sex with women too."
B (not listening): "Next!"

Like with vanilla relationship, one doesn't need to have every interest (or kink) in common.
If you don't like a particular kink, don't engage in it.
Why judge those who do like it?

Unless they're forcing you, of course. Then I quite get the "get lost" bit.

For me, that reasoning does not really apply. My feeling would be, that someone who has an interest in doing something that I consider to be unsafe in any circumstances does not share my attitudes toward what is physically safe, and would be someone that I would not trust to recognize when something comes up that I consider to be unsafe. So, even if he would not be employing this tactic upon me, just the fact that he does do it would be enough to tell me that we are not a proper match. Harshness has nothing to do with it.

< Message edited by nyrisa -- 7/19/2007 3:31:16 PM >

_____________________________

A true lady takes off her dignity with her clothes and does her whorish best. At other times you can be as modest and dignified as your persona requires. Robert Heinlein

The last thing I want to do is hurt you...but it is still on my list.

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 3:33:32 PM

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

What she said.
K

quote:

ORIGINAL: nyrisa
just the fact that he does do it would be enough to tell me that we are not a proper match. Harshness has nothing to do with it.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to nyrisa)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 4:38:02 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

First off I have never seen what you posted as described as an anal hook.....It looks more like someone who is preparing to go fishing for Great White Sharks.

ROFLMAOPMP

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 4:41:43 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
If you don't like a particular kink, don't engage in it.

I believe that is exactly what I said in passing on a partner who wants to do this.
I CHOOSE to pass, therefore I am not engaging in it.

I just pointed out that there is a difference between passing on an activity and passing on a person.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Missokyst)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 4:43:39 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nyrisa

My feeling would be, that someone who has an interest in doing something that I consider to be unsafe in any circumstances does not share my attitudes toward what is physically safe, and would be someone that I would not trust to recognize when something comes up that I consider to be unsafe.

Good point. I yield. Although, personally, I'd want to know more before dismissing someone.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to nyrisa)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 5:03:42 PM

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

Hi

Well actually yes, flogging can be healthy, it do better the circulation in the affected tissue and the endmorfine rush can be quite healthy to the mind. However the way you presented your post it did sound like you mean that if a person considers flogging to be ok, they are hypocrites if they do not find treading a hook though their vaginal wall to be ok. If that is not what you meant, then i misunderstood you.

And for the record, the signal to noise radio, i would say in this debate, mis understanding or not, the noise my good man is made by you while the rest of us are trying to get a sifnal through the static that seam to be your ability to reason.

i wish you well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

(in reply to Lewcifer)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 9:39:59 PM

Posts: 126
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
While I see your position, I think you are missing hers, as well.

I agree... at a certain point in the discussion, W/we became out of sync and ended up talking about two different things.

"She was stating that it's okay for person A to say that they won't engage in act X while they will engage in act Y because they consider the risks associated with X unacceptable and the risks associated with Y acceptable. That, and she tried to say that there is a continuum of risk, ranging from negligible to likely fatal, with various activities spaced along this continuum."

I agree with this... I believe W/we had a communication problem and then a shifting paradigm which never actually allowed us to conclude our former discussion.

"Fissure hooking does have an associated risk, as any activity. That level of risk may be acceptable to person B, but not to person A. The risk for fissure hooking is arguably higher than the risk of, let's say, spanking."

I agree, without reserve. I was not arguing that point. I was arguing against the actual statement that was made, implying there was no risk in the other activities (flogging).

"I do not see that there is a flaw in the arguments here, only the means of communicating them; this on both sides."

I agree.

"My nephandi is dyslexic and not a native speaker of English, as I believe her profile points out. I don't know how well your spelling is in Arabic, but if you had dyslexia, I suspect it would be similar."

It was a silly ad-hominem attack on My part, out of frustration. For that, I apologize as it was neither productive nor courteous.

"PPS - I once had a girlfriend with a crooked hole, technically. She had a tipped uterus." - I don't get what you mean by this. Care to explain?

It was a failed attempt at injecting humor into a deteriorating discussion, though it was based on an actual event in My life. I did have a girlfriend with a tipped uterus, which meant a portion of her vaginal path was not straight (eg, crooked hole)... It did make for some pretty damn tight sex, however.

_____________________________

I am fortunate... My wife is also My friend, lover and slave.

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 9:43:38 PM

Posts: 126
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi
However the way you presented your post it did sound like you mean that if a person considers flogging to be ok, they are hypocrites if they do not find treading a hook though their vaginal wall to be ok. If that is not what you meant, then i misunderstood you.

Nope... that's not what I meant. I was responding to someone who seemed to have doubts that flogging could be unhealthy. Nothing more, nothing less.

"And for the record, the signal to noise radio, i would say in this debate, misunderstanding or not, the noise my good man is made by you while the rest of us are trying to get a sifnal through the static that seam to be your ability to reason."

Yes, that does seem to be the case. I'll be a little less enthusiastic (or more selective) in my replies going forward. Thank you for pointing that out... I do seem to be getting louder than I should.

_____________________________

I am fortunate... My wife is also My friend, lover and slave.

(in reply to nephandi)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 9:45:16 PM

Posts: 126
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: bbwslit2use
Someone can Hook me up!

With chocolate, or a fissure hook?

Compromise. With a chocolate fissure hook.

_____________________________

I am fortunate... My wife is also My friend, lover and slave.

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 9:46:32 PM

Posts: 126
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingKitten
And for Lewcifer's benefit, 'cos the lad loves his latin lingo: Semper in excreto, solum profundum variat.

Indeed, and there's plenty of it in this thread!

Sic Biscuitus Desintegrat.

_____________________________

I am fortunate... My wife is also My friend, lover and slave.

(in reply to ThinkingKitten)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 10:00:19 PM

Posts: 126
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

Greetings

quote:

The point remains... your characterization of this particular kink as unhealthy, while attempting to characterize bruising (and now, apparently suspension play) as healthy is disingenuous and hypocritical. You clearly stated bruising was not unhealthy, because everyone gets bruised unintentionally. People also get hit by cars unintentionally... that, per-se, does not make it a healthy activity. The fact remains (please feel free to factually refute it) - intentional bruising for the sake of bruising (such as during flogging, caning, spanking, etc) is medically unhealthy.

i do not condem an kink however i will say that the things you say is similar to saying that eating rat posion is the same as eating a chocolathe is the same thing as eating the chocholateto is unhealthy. Or that going outside in winter whitout a scarf is the same as being dropped into ice water as going outside in the cold whiout a scarf to is unhealthy.

Unfortunately, I'm confused as to whom you're addressing here... nephandi made a statement that bruising was healthy (and therefore carried no risk). My response was to show this was not true. In another post, zindyslave claimed such activity is "unhealthy but still in a way safe, by that I mean it will not require surgery to fix the problem" - to which I responded by pointing out that the requirement for surgery or lack thereof is not a meaningful measure of safety. I fail to understand how the examples you give regarding chocolate, ice water, etc. fit in - or what I'm supposed to respond to.

"There is a scale of unhealthy here. i pierced my own ears, sure it would have been safer to do at a piercing studio, but what i risked was a crooked puncture and a scar and perhaps a little infection, i am now planing an eyebrow piercing, i will not do this at home as i then risk hitting a nerve and even get an infection in my eye."

I'm not sure how to respond to this, either... since I agree with you. The degree of safety was never an issue. The issue was that some people considered certain activities, in one case activites that cause bruising and in another flogging, as purely safe. That is far from the case, of course.

"... Neiter is healthy, but one will make you hyper and feeling ill the other might kill you. One need to conider it allot more, and have allot more knowledge to eat rat posion then eating a chocholate."

This was never at issue - I absolutely agree that perineum hooking is more risky than flogging or piercing your ears. What I disagree with are those who said flogging or bruising is healthy!

I hope that helps to clear things up! Thanks for your patience.

< Message edited by Lewcifer -- 7/19/2007 10:02:12 PM >

_____________________________

I am fortunate... My wife is also My friend, lover and slave.

(in reply to nephandi)

RE: Anal hooks - 7/19/2007 10:26:31 PM

Posts: 278
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: Missoula Montana
Status: offline

We don't actually know anything about the piercing in question. We don't know that it was done with that hook, and not a piercing needle. We don't know how long that hook was left in. We don't know if it was already healed when the hook was inserted. We don't even know if the whole thing was a photoshop job.

http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Anal-to-vaginal_piercing
Note that most professional piercers will refuse to do this due to the risk of potentially serious complications. Someone who wants it done will likely be either doing it themself, or having it done by a less than well-trained person. How smart is that?

It would be my personal opinion that anyone who has such a thing done either has no real conception of the risk involved, or has some very strange fantasies about self mutilation. But a cruise through the annals of BMEzine will quickly show that there are even more severe body mods around. This stuff is not for the timid. There are after all, people who cut off their own genitals, or find someone to amputate their perfectly healthy leg. To me, this goes way beyond anything we can call RACK, just as does playing Russian Roulette.

_____________________________

GrizzlyBear

"Come to the edge," he said.
They said, "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge," he said.
They came. He pushed them. And they flew.
~Guillaume Apollinaire

(in reply to Lewcifer)

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