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"Comming out" to one's doctor...advice please? - 8/3/2007 2:31:22 PM   
megan2007


Posts: 19
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		well, i never intended to "come out of the BDSM closet" to my doctor, until i read something that caused me to rethink the issue.

my Daddy and i play SSC, always.  that is never a question or issue.  and He is quite experienced and exceedingly alert and aware to any potential dangers and/or problems that might arise. 

playing SSC (or RACK, if you prefer), and having a proper first aid kit on hand, as well as knowing at LEAST the very basics of emergency first aid, goes a long way in working to prevent or at least minimize (sp?) any lasting harm.  however, accidents CAN happen.  unforseen events DO come about at times, and freak occurances CAN occur.

and, i was reading something recently, that basicaly stated that IF something happened, an accident or the like during play, that made it neccessary to seek medical help...well, we all know that there is a very real danger that one's play partner might be accused of abuse, amongst a whole list of other possible things such as rape if sex was involved, kidnapping/restraint if bondage was involved, etc, etc.  yes, these things can come into play, even if BOTH parties swear up and down that it was all consensual.

and then there's the chilling thought of what happens to the Top, if the bottom is for some reason, rendered unconcious and unable to SAY that it was consensual???

the article i was reading (a discussion on one of the forums at anouther bdsm community site), stated that in case of something unforseen or unavoidable happening, as examples made above...it would strongly behoove the bottom to have previously informed their personal doctor, that they engage in consensual bdsm practices.  that way, IF anything should ever happen, there is at least one person, in the medical field, that was previously aware of the posibility, however remote and judiciously attempted to be avoided, of an injury from such personal activities...and that it was indeed, CONSENUALY engaged in.

i would NEVER want to be a risk of something negative happening to my Daddy.  so in the attempt to make sure should an unforseen event occur, despite playing safely and all, that He will have at least LESS of a chance of being unfairly blamed as an "abuser"...i plan on informing my doctor, at my next visit with her (in about two weeks) for a checkup, that i engage in "consensual kink", as a PC way of edging into the conversation.

i will be going into the appointment, well "armed" so to speak, with a print out of part of the NCSF's "What is SM?" to give to her, and for us to discuss if she wants to.  but i have some concerns...

i suffer from a couple of emotional disorders.  niether either affects, or is affected by, my being a submissive in a consensualy D/s relationship that includes BDSM play.  however...i have NO wish to have the "men in the white coats" knocking on my door, given some "right" to do so, by manner of the fact that i am already "on the books", as a person with emotional disabilities, and now self-professed masochist.  it IS true, sado-masochism is no longer on the list of psychiatric disorders.  but...i still worry...

i fear of a chance of posibly getting my Daddy into legal trouble as an "abuser", even by just MENTIONING that i engage in bdsm practices with Him.  it's not like i'd tell my doctor His name or anything, but...is that a potential thing i should be afraid of?  i've tried and tried and TRIED to find anything stating the law on this, especialy the law in my state (Maine), but i cant find anything...does anyone have a link they could offer, pretty pretty please!?!

and lastly, my doctor is also the physician of my mother.  and i am decidedly NOT out of the closet, to my family, nor do i wish to be, at least not at this time.  while those in the health field have to protect the privacy of their patients, and i know that...i still worry that somehow, even accidentaly letting it slip, my doctor might tip my mother off about my being "kinky".

...yes, i know i worry a lot.  and probably have very little real reason to do so.  but then one of my disabiling conditions is OCD, so...it's not like i have a lot of control over it.

so please...i've searched online until websites are coming out of my ears, but i would still REALY appreciate the advice of any others here, who have told their doctors about being involved in BDSM...and if you feel comfortable sharing personal stories of the event, and your doctor's reactions, then i'd realy enjoy reading of them as well.

to anyone who replies to this, offering advice/support, THANK YOU!

take care and blessed be.
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/3/2007 2:53:34 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Keep it very simple.  You don't need to tell him he slices you open with a singletail whip every other week.  You need to say "We're into rough sex and toys and that sometimes leaves marks."

Keep the attitude confident, calm and positive.  Don't overdo it or you'll try to sound like you're convincing yourself, don't act lame or scared because then that's how it will be interpreted.  Say "We both enjoy this a lot and I just wanted to let you know in case it ever shows up physically."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to megan2007)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/3/2007 5:21:22 PM   
Phin


Posts: 1802
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		A close friend uses a "contract of service" that outlines the the relationship. they have both signed it, placed it in a sealed envelope signed and dated the seal. A Dom can now submit that as evidence that the SM activities are consential if the negitive does happen. .

As for coming out to the doctor, I agree with LA.

_____________________________

"Isn't wonderful when our bruises show what we hide in the back of our heads?"Fayetteville band, Nephilym

"He is my angel, my devil, my naughty boy, but above anything else my Master"My girl sin

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/3/2007 5:58:56 PM   
MasterMike04103


Posts: 143
Joined: 7/24/2004
Status: offline 		Phin,

Those along with Risk Aware Consentual Kink statements dont' stand up against our states Domestic Voilence laws... I would agree with LA, but as far as holding a contract as evidence... that doesn't always work...

Mike aka megan2007's daddy

(in reply to Phin)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/3/2007 6:09:15 PM   
Phin


Posts: 1802
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		I know they are not a sure fire way, but along with testomony by the sub the judge would have to be a complete ass not to throw the case out.

_____________________________

"Isn't wonderful when our bruises show what we hide in the back of our heads?"Fayetteville band, Nephilym

"He is my angel, my devil, my naughty boy, but above anything else my Master"My girl sin

(in reply to MasterMike04103)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/4/2007 5:43:13 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		For me it would depend on how well I knew my primary doctor.  Would he/she know me if they passed me on the street and say hi?
Or am I more less annonymous to them?  If I am, even if I tell them chances are they aren't going to know when the time comes.  Many doctor's sadly don't even review their notes before seeing you.
So, in times of crisis when you may or may not even be able to tell them your primary physicians name, would they review?
Now, if they are someone who knows you by sight.  Sure, I'd tell them. 

So, to help my partner.  I'd stay away from contracts.  They are trash.  To everyone involved and the legal system believes to as well.
Myself, I'd try to write up a statement in my own words.  Somewhat of a contract BUT, my dominant would not be involved whatsoever.  Just stating who I am and what activities I engage in.  If there ever is an emergency, please give this to the ER doc.  Get it notarized and keep it with a safe person who will be by your bedside in time of emergency. 
Just keep it simple, this is who I am.  This is what I do. 
That notary signature helps us in so many ways through out life.  I imagine it could help in the ER as well.

Just an idea

(in reply to megan2007)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/4/2007 2:10:53 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		I'm not sure that any document, notarized or not, filed with an attorney or whathaveyou, stating that all of the damage you're suffering as an unconscious person bleeding to death is sufficient to "protect" the top from legal intervention.  Many states have a non-consent clause in their legal definitions of assault and battery that clearly makes the point that a person cannot consent to being assaulted.  That premise alone would make null and void the consent document.  And think about this -- you consented to being spanked, whipped, etc.  You didn't consent to the suspension rig failing and you falling 15 feet to the ground on the hardwood floor, cracking your skull open and breaking an arm.  There are things that can happen that your document cannot possibly take into account.

As for how to talk to a doctor about WIITWD proactively before an emergency happens?  Have a good rapport with your PCP, talk to them candidly about the nature of your sexual interests.  II was candid with my new physician and she was very accepting and non-judgemetal.  We discussed the things that I do and that from time to time, I might have questions for her concerning someone else's anatomy, physical effects of different things that  do, etc.  In fact, she was proactive in making sure that infectious disease testing was standard in my panel of annual labs done, as well as adding titer evaluations on my vaccines (HAV/HBV.)   If you have legitimate concerns that your doctor will not be accepting, you may wish to seek out another physician, such as one listed with NCSF on their Kink Aware Professionals list.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to megan2007)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/4/2007 8:47:47 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Phin,

Silly judges are nothing new. And in an election year, being popular is important, as is- in some places- being seen as a "guardian of morality and propriety"... Add to this that families may demand retribution, you can hire a shrink to say the person is legally incompetent and that the Dom must have been exploiting the person, and so forth... Rhetoric can go a long way.

That said, making sure one has credible witnesses who can establish the consensuality of it all is a good thing. Shrinks, lawyers, doctors ... preferrably someone who has spoken to the sub without the Dom being present at the time, so that one cannot argue anything regarding threats, force or whatever. A shrink is probably the best bet, and preferrably a Kink Aware one at that. The KAP list has a number of those.

Here in Norway, a RACK form will do the trick for just about anything involving a single scene. It will do the trick for most regular things regarding a lifestyle relationship. But there are, of course, some exceptions to the rule, mostly involving gross negligence (i.e. when it's no longer risk-aware, while it easily could have been), permanent injury or death. Permanent injuries generally get struck down to a slap on the wrist, though, like the Dom who cut off a finger a while back. So far, the courts have tended to stay out of people's bedrooms here.

In order to deal with this kind of thing properly, the ideal solution is probably talking to a KAP lawyer to find out what one should do.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/5/2007 6:35:31 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

I'm not sure that any document, notarized or not, filed with an attorney or whathaveyou, stating that all of the damage you're suffering as an unconscious person bleeding to death is sufficient to "protect" the top from legal intervention.  Many states have a non-consent clause in their legal definitions of assault and battery that clearly makes the point that a person cannot consent to being assaulted.  That premise alone would make null and void the consent document.  And think about this -- you consented to being spanked, whipped, etc.  You didn't consent to the suspension rig failing and you falling 15 feet to the ground on the hardwood floor, cracking your skull open and breaking an arm.  There are things that can happen that your document cannot possibly take into account.




Exactly, and now you are at a play party 100 miles from home.  This happens to you and you end up in a strange city, a strange ER...and being helped there.
Generally they help you in ER's they don't wait until they get ahold of your primary for your medical records.
What do you do in cases like that?

(in reply to MisPandora)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/5/2007 6:49:07 AM   
Phin


Posts: 1802
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		all of you are right about the fact that a contract will not keep one out of the legal system. all I was trying to say it that having one is one more weapon against an onslautht from either ignorant or just over zelous prosicutors. If you choose not to have some sort of contract, I will not fault you for it, but if I ever do enter into a long term Ds system the sub or Dom that I am involved with will write something out, both will sign it and have it witnessed. I will take all the weapons I can get, even if it is a peashooter, and I am guessing that the contract is more of a peashooter...

_____________________________

"Isn't wonderful when our bruises show what we hide in the back of our heads?"Fayetteville band, Nephilym

"He is my angel, my devil, my naughty boy, but above anything else my Master"My girl sin

(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/5/2007 1:42:48 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Similarly to what LA said, I've told my doctor, "We play a little rough and it sometimes leaves marks" and that was sufficient enough.  When dealing with particular medical issues, I have asked if playing rough could cause issues.  My doctor does not need to know specifics. 

Now, when Mr. Wonderful scraped "SLUT" across my lower back with his knife, I said nothing but blushed a little at my next appointment...heh.

(in reply to megan2007)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/5/2007 2:08:19 PM   
KiandPhoenix


Posts: 205
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		I took Phoenix to the ER one evening for an injury she got from work. She had some light bruising from the previous nights scene. I told her to be honest about our lifestyle. I am sure they have dealt with the BDSM community before, and they should know it is consensual. She failed to tell him claming that they were bruises from work. He didn’t look convinced. After she left I told her she needed to tell him the truth before I got hot lined and the kids end up being taken away for being in an abusive home.

When the doctor returned she confessed the truth, and he looked more at ease knowing it was something consensual. I then took the opportunity to discuss safety in doing scenes with her current injury. He said not to tie her arms above her head, only low at her side for a few weeks. Quite professional.

Another time she was seriously injured outside the home and brought to me. I took her to the ER, where they were trying to put her in restraints and she was fighting them. I explained to the staff our relationship, and they made use of it by letting me get her calm and order her to let the restraints be placed on. They also had no problems with it.

Point is that I think most doctors are aware. We exist, and as long as it is not abuse they don’t care. Just don’t go to a psychiatrist. They all seam to think it is just abuse.
~Ki

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/5/2007 2:30:40 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

Many states have a non-consent clause in their legal definitions of assault and battery that clearly makes the point that a person cannot consent to being assaulted. 



Please post a link or reference to these many states which don't allow football players, boxers, the SCA, and so forth to claim consent and avoid incarceration for their activities. The jails must be getting pretty full by now.

(in reply to KiandPhoenix)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/5/2007 5:31:58 PM   
hereyesruponyou


Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		What an uninformed response. Let's start with my state, the only one i know about well enough to comment on.  BECAUSE battered partners often either recant their stories or out and out lie to authorities, the police actually press the charges of assault and battery here with the thought being "it's for your own good". Now judgement always comes into play, but all it really takes for trouble is one nurse etc who decides this is "wrong" and the police are called in, and once again it's a crap shoot whether it goes past that.

There is no real way to protect against everything that can happen. We all know there are risks and they are not always physical.

_____________________________

Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be


(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/5/2007 7:41:20 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		What kind of injury would require doctors to restrain someone?
quote:

ORIGINAL: KiandPhoenix

Another time she was seriously injured outside the home and brought to me. I took her to the ER, where they were trying to put her in restraints and she was fighting them. ~Ki


_____________________________

Most of the time if it looks like BS, smells like BS, you probably should not t taste it to see if, in fact, it is BS.


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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/6/2007 5:44:55 AM   
Phin


Posts: 1802
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

What kind of injury would require doctors to restrain someone?
If they suspect spinal injury they will place you in traction strapped down to a stiff board. that very will could be considered restraints.


edited for formatting

< Message edited by Phin -- 8/6/2007 5:46:00 AM >

_____________________________

"Isn't wonderful when our bruises show what we hide in the back of our heads?"Fayetteville band, Nephilym

"He is my angel, my devil, my naughty boy, but above anything else my Master"My girl sin

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/6/2007 10:29:25 AM   
EclipseAbove


Posts: 220
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with keeping it simple when you discuss things with your doctor.  If you go into too much detail or try to "educate" them, they might think you are one of the many people with medical fetishes who try to get doctors to perform procedures on them so they can get off.  Chances are that your doctor has seen and heard plenty about "strange" sexual habits.  After all, who do you think removes all of the common household objects that suddenly get stuck in people's butts?

(in reply to Phin)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/6/2007 10:30:12 AM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

Many states have a non-consent clause in their legal definitions of assault and battery that clearly makes the point that a person cannot consent to being assaulted. 



Please post a link or reference to these many states which don't allow football players, boxers, the SCA, and so forth to claim consent and avoid incarceration for their activities. The jails must be getting pretty full by now.

And as you've been reminded elsewhere in another forum, there are also considerations in statutes as well as case law that exempts organized sporting events to include MMA and other athletics, karate, etc.  Last time I checked, BDSM wasn't on the list of "things that are sanctioned.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/6/2007 10:32:27 AM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

What kind of injury would require doctors to restrain someone?
quote:

ORIGINAL: KiandPhoenix

Another time she was seriously injured outside the home and brought to me. I took her to the ER, where they were trying to put her in restraints and she was fighting them. ~Ki


You've never worked in an emergency department!  People come into ERs flipping out and losing their shit. Some aren't even injured! Most days, there was someone in the ED getting sat on by security or tossed into at least soft restraints because they were a threat to the staff.  Shock will do that to you.  So will drugs and respiratory compromise.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)
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RE: "Comming out" to one's doctor...advice pl... - 8/6/2007 10:39:51 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phin

If they suspect spinal injury they will place you in traction strapped down to a stiff board.

Traction generally isn't applied when you board someone. 

~stef


_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Phin)
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