Collarchat.com

Join Our Community		 Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul Page: <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 12:46:46 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueEyedSubinDE

Previous posters have continuously brought up two items, one needles were washed with luke warm water and that people were in pain and not given medication that would ease their pain.  Let's presume for a moment both situations occured.  Ok why?  The evil Mother Teresa forbade it or gasp, could it be that no hot water was available, was there even running water?  It's hard to fathom living here in this country, but there are still sadly places in the world with no running water.  Second, was pain medication available?  How many times have you heard about someone or known someone with cancer that is in pain because what is available isn't strong enough.  It's not always that someone is withholding medication, sometimes it's what exists doesn't work. 

Strangely Doctors without Borders finds ways to sterilize medical equipment in far more chaotic and primitive situations than Calcutta or Haiti. As to pain meds the references aren't to unmanageable pain as is sometimes encountered in hospice but completely unmanaged pain. Read the Lancet article about her hospice in Calcutta.

If her order really was destitute then this would be acceptable but it is well and truly established that her order was not destitute.


Medecins sans Frontieres-Doctors without Borders is a non-religious organisation. It isn't run by an iconographic wizened old lady in a white kitchen cloth. It's not nearly as appealing to the catholic do-gooders. The editor in chief of the Lancet criticized Theresa's "nursing care" (let's not remember: she had very little education. The though of her handling an aspirin tablet alone is enough to make me squirm). The British Medical Journal reviewed the standard of care in her dyingotrons in a negative light.

Who was this person that her legacy isn't to be questioned in the eyes of so many?

The Vatican... the Mafia... Theresa. Yes, they're all on the same side.

quote:

She started off her new life by walking into the slums and gathering together unschooled children and teach them. She had prepared for this mission by going for intensive medical training so that she would be able to assist those who were sick and dying in the gutters.
 
Clara Barton
Florence Nightingale
Christian Barnard
Jonas Salk
Marie Curry
 
 
OHHHH and the medics who treat our wounded on the field of Iraq
 
before you judge--live it-- you aren't medically trained either, yet you give OTC meds to your kids.
 
 
ooops and I forgot Jesus.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 1:07:25 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Hmmm... sounds like your claims you were a buddhist were definitely unfounded.

Bigotted and ignorant, did you say ?

_____________________________



(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 1:09:32 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

before you judge--live it-- you aren't medically trained either, yet you give OTC meds to your kids.



How on earth would you know?!!! Hilarious!

quote:



ooops and I forgot Jesus.



... who was a nice Jewish boy whose name was Yeshua Ha Nozri ...



_____________________________



(in reply to MHOO314)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 1:14:04 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

before you judge--live it-- you aren't medically trained either, yet you give OTC meds to your kids.



How on earth would you know?!!! Hilarious!

quote:



ooops and I forgot Jesus.



... who was a nice Jewish boy whose name was Yeshua Ha Nozri ...




Because medical people spend line after line explaining and don't use terms like "squeamish".

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 1:57:20 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Well, you are wrong. And I don't recall using the word 'squeamish' on this thread: sounds far too literate for me. I'm a brain surgeon, not an english teacher.

_____________________________



(in reply to MHOO314)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 2:26:22 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Well, you are wrong. And I don't recall using the word 'squeamish' on this thread: sounds far too literate for me. I'm a brain surgeon, not an english teacher.


Oh I am sorry, you used the word squirm not squeamish--however as a brain surgeon you would know that millions of people everyday with NO medical training dole out aspirin to people and kids alike---so just admit there is something about the Mother you do not like or agree with. I think to use this as an example of her fitness or lack of fitness to be a humanitarian to be really small---as I have said before, walk it, go and live in that filth, live in that poverty, live with nothing WILLINLGY to help humanity--make the decisions she had to make, THEN comment--I think most here would not make the cut.
 
At times our ivory towers make Me sick.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 3:43:06 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
i am no fan of organized religion, but i don't see her as part of some organized religions conspiracy to swindle money.


Is that a joke?

We are still talking about the Catholic church, yes? Offhand, I'd say that the Catholic church is by design a "conspiracy to swindle money." Almost all churches are alike in that one respect. And I am not the first person in this thread to suggest that very thing.

For free the Catholic priests will bugger your children and save you the trouble. What an incredible bargain!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
...beats dying in a garbage dump being nibbled away by rats - yes, that's how she found one of her poor.


Have you never wondered about the mentality of the person that wants to relate those kinds of stories? Anyway, much of what the kooky nun had to say has been called into doubt by actual doctors. So whatever...

Just as a matter of interest, I hope others noticed that Susan Shields was quoted in the Stern story that has been reprinted here (albeit with some scanning typos):

-----

http://members.lycos.co.uk/bajuu/

The millions that are donated to the order have a similar fate. Susan Shields (formerly Sr Virgin) says, "The money was not misused, but the largest part of it wasn't used at all. When there was a famine in Ethiopia, many cheques arrived marked 'for the hungry in Ethiopia'. Once I asked the sister who was in charge of accounts if I should add up all those very many cheques and send the total to Ethiopia. The sister answered, 'No, we don't send money to Africa.' But I continued to make receipts to the donors, 'For Ethiopia'."

By the accounts of former sisters, the finances are a one way street. "We were always told, the fact that we receive more than other orders, shows that God loves Mother Teresa more," says Susan Shields. Donations and hefty bank balances are a measure of God's love. Taking is holier than giving.

-----

So yeah, that sounds just like a "conspiracy to swindle money" to me. The whole article is about the unaccounted for dollars gathered by this "destitute" nun.

YMMV.


(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 4:07:17 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I want to apologize for getting all huffy earlier. My father had been in the hospital, and I am also in the midst of preparing my home for sale, and things have been a mess. I've been pretty stressed. Note to SugarMyChurro, Rule, kittensol, and anyone else I may have offended: My apologies if I hurt any feelings (and I do mean that).

However, note to SugarMyChurro: I have ceased to take your posts very seriously, in terms of proving anything at all. I know you won't care, and that's fine with me. And, SugarMyChurro: I rarely (if ever) mention this to anyone BUT, since you brought it up - there ain't too much that normally just "flies over my head" - I am a member of Mensa,(and I can prove it, too). So no, I am not exactly a dim-wit. I have considered this issue from a lot of different angles. Maybe I am completely wrong, let's just say, I've given the matter a lot of thought. Granted, you (and everyone) still has a right to their own opinion.   

Either way, it just doesn't matter (to me). You have a right to ask questions - but Proof is required before I'd consider anyone as actually succeeding in smearing Mother Theresa's good intent, work, and her reputation. Someone who did this much selfless work on behalf of others - who devoted her entire life toward those ends - who lived in poverty themselves. The fact you might not think so, doesn't make you correct - and it most certainly doesn't make your suppositions TRUE(or those of some hucksters on some website or some money-grubbing author intent on maming a fast buck). At least not to me - and that goes for anyone else, who really seems bent, on this thread, toward simply just smearing her good name.

But - I know maybe Mother T and her nuns were terrible book-keepers, and maybe some of her millions did go to theVatican in Rome. Maybe there were dirty nedles and a lcak of anti-biotics. However, I do have to say, to anyone that is concerned about "where all of the money went", that:

None of you have provided any info re: Just how much (total) money we are talking about here. I have seen articles that speculate - with figures like 50$ million, etc. - but none that even manage to make an accurate guess re: How much money she actually had - and it doesn't matter if she kept accurate books or not. Nobody has provided an accurate guess, just questions.

What I have to say to that is - it just doesn't take too much imagination (for me) - to see the following:

She had over 600 missions she began (meaning places where nuns live and do work - many to aid the poor and dying, and for victims of natural disasters) around the world. On top of that - she had over 200 Hospices she began around the world.

Total - that is over 800 various organizations doing things like: Aiding the poor and victims of natural disasters. It isn't too difficult, even if someone is not an Aaccounting or book-keeping Wiz, to see that $50 million dollars, spread throughout 800 organizations like this, might not necessarily go that far.
 
At  the very least, perhaps she was merely frugal. That would make some sense (to me) - especially if she had millions she was trying to help. Maybe there were times she couldn't help everyone - maybe there were times she did screw up, and some things went wrong at her places of charity, and her missions.

However, for me, that in no way completely negates her efforts. She was certainly trying to help people.  The circumstances of her life, and the lentghty tenure of her work, poit that out pretty clearly (to me). And she certainly seemed to do a lot of good toward that end in this world. And - she did win a Nobel Peace prize for it, and several other awards as well. That is fact, not opinion.

I remain un-impressed with people who seem hell-bent on viewing her existence through a completely cynical lens. Plus, frankly, I think it would be obvious to any that many of their "sources" are merely mostly (to me) seem to be people intent on making money, or becoming famous somehow for themselves, at her expense - which sort of negates any "noble intennt" on their part (for me). That's about all I have to say about it, really.

- Susan      

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/26/2007 4:47:53 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 4:41:29 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		$50 million US per year (a serious underestimate based on availble testimony)/800 sites = $62,500 US per year per site. With no staff costs, no food costs and by all account donated or very cheaply acquired property and structures $62,500 is a lot of money for buying medecines and medical supplies. Certainly sufficient for the Haitain facility to not resuse needles until they became so blunt as to cause excruciating pain.

However while the math makes for interesting supposition I'm still waiting for a single shred of evidence that the money was actually spent and what about the huge Indian school?

Now for the horror of it, with so much money completely unaccounted for it becomes virtually certain that much of these donations never reached the intended beneficiaries. So if she and her order had been less of a sacred cow and word had gotten out many years earlier how much of the money donated to her order would have instead been donated to groups who actually do important work in poor regions and do desperately need the funds. How many died because of this woman squirreling those donations away for whatever reason?

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 4:45:50 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		DomKen: So? It's still just a speculative figure, from your end as well. If you are really gonna debate someone about this -then go ahead and do it. Flowcharts, real numbers from a source you cite, etc. I am growing very weary with mere speculations, and  have definitely already drawn my own conclusions about all of this - so I am no longer interested. Possibly, someone else is, though (and I sincerely am not trying to be rude, just how I feel about it, at this point). 

My guess is she figured it was better to try to help more people with the money she had, than to try to help fewer of them, with the money, and maybe it just got spread a buit thin, at times. That would be one explanation (to me). In any case, it certainbly doesn't wipe out someone's good intent, their entire life's work, or whatever good they did manage to do.

Btw - From my perspective, cynicism doesn't make someone correct. But - I think it can make someone bitter.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/26/2007 4:55:18 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 4:48:37 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

I am a member of Mensa,( and I can prove it, too)  So no, I am not exactly a dim-wit.


Thank goodness we have you here to guide us dumb folk.




_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 4:52:14 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Sometimes you just crack me up!

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 5:00:03 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		KatyLied: Make of it what you will,  I don't have the time, and am not too interested in your bitchy responses right about now. I've got a dad in the hospital who is seriously ill, and am under LOTS of stress (or did that part of that post escape you? Not that you are even obligated to car, certainly). He called me a dim-wit, I responded. Had it been in any way directed at you in particular - then you might have a need to stick your nose in, where it really does not belong, IMO.

But - of course it is the Internet - have at it. Thanks for being so kind to me in this particular case. I'll be sure to remember that in the future, just what a kind person you can be. Good to know. And also - My appreciation toward those who want to make light of Mother Theresa, her circumstances, me - and other people, too. It is just such a valuable way for me to spend my time. I was a fool from the get-go, to even participate. 
- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/26/2007 5:30:31 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 5:03:19 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Susan you've mentioned more than once about being in mensa, I'm giving you kudos for helping us dumb folk.  I don't see your bragging as having anything to do with your dad being in the hospital.  So bragging and begging for sympathy doesn't work for me.  

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 5:26:35 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		Tried before, with no success, to get some sources for the information you are giving.  Guess it won't hurt to try again.  So, here goes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
So the truth is irrelevant to you? All that matters to you is the PR machine not facts? Thanks for the info, I can safely ignore any further ignorant bleatings you may make.


The "truth" according to who?  Why don't you provide any sources for the "truth" you have stated?  Where did you get all of this "truth" from?  Sorry but, i always consider the source of the "truth" i am being given.

 
Accusations, without verifiable sources, are empty, meaningless, meritless, and not worth the keystrokes needed to debate them.  Without sources, you have no case against a dead woman.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David
 
"Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

$50 million US per year (a serious underestimate based on availble testimony)/800 sites = $62,500 US per year per site. With no staff costs, no food costs and by all account donated or very cheaply acquired property and structures $62,500 is a lot of money for buying medecines and medical supplies. Certainly sufficient for the Haitain facility to not resuse needles until they became so blunt as to cause excruciating pain.

However while the math makes for interesting supposition I'm still waiting for a single shred of evidence that the money was actually spent and what about the huge Indian school?

Now for the horror of it, with so much money completely unaccounted for it becomes virtually certain that much of these donations never reached the intended beneficiaries. So if she and her order had been less of a sacred cow and word had gotten out many years earlier how much of the money donated to her order would have instead been donated to groups who actually do important work in poor regions and do desperately need the funds. How many died because of this woman squirreling those donations away for whatever reason?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 5:30:34 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
... I'm still waiting for a single shred of evidence that the money was actually spent and what about the huge Indian school?


... and a lot of us are still waiting for evidence that the money was improperly used. If, as you say, it's almost certain that the money didn't go to the intended beneficiaries, and as you say, it's a whole lot of money ... you would think that Gods of journalism like Christopher Hitchens, could find a bit more to support their case.
 
Maybe I'm a fool, what with not being a member of Mensa and all ... but I tend to think people should wait for proof that accusations are true, before attempting to prove they are not.
 
Caitlyn the Fool (Hup's protege')

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 5:37:35 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		KatyLied: I can appreciate what you are saying, BUT from where  am sitting, the entire thing just doesn't matter anymore - to me. So of course anyone can think whatever they need to think, about whatever (as always). With everything else I got goin' on right now, this entire thread just has me entirely spent, period. But that really isn't anyone else's fault. Maybe I participated to distract myself, I dunno.

It was my fault for believing anyone who hates Mother T was actually ever going to really prove much wrongdoing on her part, that would equate, or be able to successfully completely tear away at, her obvious (to me anyway) accomplisments. In any case, I have personal stuff I gotta do (I don't really need to explain it, and maybe I will pop in occasionally, just mentioning in case anyone wonders where I went). I admit I was a fan of hers from the start. But in any case, as far as I can tell, people who seem to hate her, or question her intentions, haven't made much of a case, in terms of really proving much, (if anything) terrible about her intent or actions, that would ever completely (for me) negate the objective value of her work.

Of course that depends on whether a person thinks that a goal of attempting to aid millions of poor and dying people has any value to begin with, I guess.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/26/2007 6:24:44 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 5:56:49 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
I want to apologize for getting all huffy earlier. My father had been in the hospital, and I am also in the midst of preparing my home for sale, and things have been a mess. I've been pretty stressed. 
You are still testy, considering your response to KL.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Note to ... Rule ... and anyone else I may have offended: My apologies if I hurt any feelings (and I do mean that). 

No offense taken. I am extremely weird in one way and you are a bit weird in another way. I have known that from every post you made that I ever read. I can accept that. It is often hard and unpleasant to look through your eyes, but when I do I see an interesting albeit alien world, a world that is different from mine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
I am a member of Mensa.
Good for you.

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/26/2007 5:57:47 PM >

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 6:51:28 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

it doesn't matter if she kept accurate books or not. Nobody has provided an accurate guess, just questions.


It is the responsibility of the non-profit to properly account for donations received.

It is the responsibility of the non-profit to properly AUDIT their accounting regularly, and publish those audits.

Even the nutjobs at PETA get it:

( From their website: "PETA undergoes an independent financial audit each year. In fiscal year 2006, more than 82 percent of our funding went directly to programs to help animals." )

Otherwise, they are criminals. They could just be criminally negligent, but still criminals.

Hey, they *could be* laundering drug money to pass onto terrorists.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/26/2007 7:06:49 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Hey, they *could be* laundering drug money to pass onto terrorists.

Is there any plausible argument for that hypothesis?
She had a good scam going already. It is not likely that she would risk drawing attention to that by any other criminal activities.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 200
Page:   <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul Page: <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.148