RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check?

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RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 11:26:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Bobkgin: Well not if everyone doesn't see you as somehow fake. I see you as a contributor to the thread. But I would really prefer to not not let the thread be side-tracked discussing you specifically.

I don't believe I misunderstand you, and I am pretty sure there are other people here who don't. But I would prefer to put the topic in more general terms - if that is alright with you. Is it?

- Susan

You understand I have no control over others who may (or have) attempted to hi-jack your thread.

Nor do I feel any compulsion to ignore them, or to pay attention to them for that matter.

They simply presented themselves as living examples of the problem described in the OP, and were used as such.

I've no objections to a general discussion. But generalities can get confusing, and examples help to clarify the intent.

For an example of how conversations can go when these individuals do not feel the need to "rescue" anyone, consider my exchanges with Aswad in Winsome's thread: "safe, SANE & Consensual ".

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 9/5/2007 11:35:01 AM >

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 11:27:40 AM

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quote:

Does that mean I would run from a partner who contracted cancer or some other terminal illness? No. Does that mean that I would run from a partner who, in playing with me in some intense scenes, begins to experience the release of some deep-seated, repressed emotional issues? No. Does that mean I can fix any of those? No. I can support them as others better equipped deal with them. Does it mean I want to take someone who has these things right from the start? No. Call me shallow if need be, but I don't think I am.

it is posts like this that keep me coming back, deep and heartfelt, honest and humble.

WOW!!!

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 11:29:32 AM

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From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

How does this relate to the topic, though?
- Susan

You don't see it?

These are your "white knights", charging to the "rescue" of all collarchat to "save" them from the 'fake wannabe dom in distress who is looking for low self-esteem subs': allegedly me.

Couldn't be more on topic than to have a real-time example of the problem you've described in your OP.

This is what you get from this thread?

No. That is what I got from those few I named who attempted to make this about me.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to Grlwithboy)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 11:31:26 AM

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I liked it, too, SimplyMichael. Hones in on (for me) the need to get to know someone a bit before committing to a partnership. Also (to me) it meant that someone can be supportive at the time, if it's needed - while still knowing there are perhaps better people (maybe professionals?) who might be better at handling someone's "issues" than a particular Dominant.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/5/2007 11:32:17 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 11:32:21 AM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Bobkgin: Well not if everyone doesn't see you as somehow fake. I see you as a contributor to the thread. But I would really prefer to not not let the thread be side-tracked discussing you specifically.

I don't believe I misunderstand you, and I am pretty sure there are other people here who don't. But I would prefer to put the topic in more general terms - if that is alright with you. Is it?

- Susan

You understand I have no control over others who may (or have) attempted to hi-jack your thread.

Nor do I feel any compulsion to ignore them, or to pay attention for them for that matter.

They simply presented themselves as living examples of the problem described in the OP, and were used as such.

I've no objections to a general discussion. But generalities can get confusing, and examples help to clarify the intent.

For an example of how conversations can go when these individuals do not feel the need to "rescue" anyone, consider my exchanges with Aswad in Winsome's thread: "safe, SANE & Consensual ".

Rescue may not be the right term.

But there is a clear difference between helping someone, and enabling them in repeating a pattern of poor decisions bob. Something about helping those who help themselves.............After all,are you "abandoning" a leech when you put a match to it's ass, forcing it to stop sucking your blood? Or just ridding yourself of a parasite?

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 11:36:27 AM

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I liked this too, from Ocilla - just a lot to think about (re: communities as well).

I prefer to compare rescue/enable to empower...I know they are just words but I think of empower as being when you give what you have to give that is reasonable (think LCC or LCA emobodied energy, throughput etc) that will help a person be successful. And lots of times it is merely a seed that gets easily sown and the person who planted it and cultivated early on will be long gone when the plant sprouts, blossoms and comes to fruition.

My thesis work was on intentional communities and one of the most common failings for individuals was that the people most attracted to being in intentional community were often those who were the most needy and incapable of providing for themselves - they were seeking a caretaker. The most successful intentional communities I interviewed and studied felt strongly that it actually requires individuals be able to, on average, take care of themselves and the common good - be strong community contributors. They felt that in such a community it is an obligation to be empowered and high functioning and to not everyone had a way to make a significant contribution. Now of course there are times of neediness in everyone's lives but even then we can have an outlook and ability to know what kind of support we need and to put it in place such that we do not drain those who are around us.

Illness and death and dying are perhaps the most difficult areas to navigate, and so far in my life care giving for the elderly and dying has been the area as an adult where I tend to get inbalanced...but I step back rearrange and reach for the resources that are almost always around if we pay attention and then replenish.

Finally, at the risk of contradicting myself I am very cautious of getting into a romantic relationship if the needy columne is deep...I definitely want a partner who is as powerful as me. And imo a submissive can be very powerful - just in different ways.
[/quote]

But I very much appreciate all of the replies. There's a lot for me to think about from this thread. I hope for more replies as well.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/5/2007 11:39:47 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to ocilla)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 11:47:13 AM

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From: Georgia
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Yeah, the best that can be said for the White Knight is that he is tilting at windmills if he doesn't have a more sinister motive.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 11:47:45 AM

Posts: 1335
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From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Rescue may not be the right term.

But there is a clear difference between helping someone, and enabling them in repeating a pattern of poor decisions bob. Something about helping those who help themselves.............After all,are you "abandoning" a leech when you put a match to it's ass, forcing it to stop sucking your blood? Or just ridding yourself of a parasite?

I spoke of that a little earlier in this thread, Rafe.

When the best advice I have is discounted or ignored, there is little I can do for them and bowing out would be the next choice.

There have been three advertisiers here who have expressed an interest in meeting me after lengthy discussions. Yet each of these three have claimed one obstacle after another when it comes to trying to arrange a meeting. Yet all three wanted to continue our discussions, especially those involving kinks.

It eventually got to a point where I left it with them that until they can get their act together, I'm not interested in pursuing the matter.

Essentially it appeared to me they were saying they cannot meet, but want me to save them from boredom by indulging their fantasies.

That's not why I'm here.

I wouldn't call them "parasites", tho' they may well have been. To me, they just seem to be lonely people who, for whatever reason, can do nothing about their loneliness except pretend to be available so as to attract attention on the internet.

There is something very sad about that.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to RRafe)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 11:53:41 AM

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/sigh

I read this entire thread before I realized that it was just another 'let's glorify the bobbypin' thread.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 11:53:54 AM

Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Illness and death and dying are perhaps the most difficult areas to navigate, and so far in my life care giving for the elderly and dying has been the area as an adult where I tend to get inbalanced...but I step back rearrange and reach for the resources that are almost always around if we pay attention and then replenish.

I know this is not for everyone, but it helped me immensely to have faith in an after-life.

For me, that would be the Pagan Summerlands.

It did not stop me from grieving. They were still not here, and still not coming back here. I missed them, and will always miss them.

But it helped me to let go of the need I had for them to be here.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 12:03:06 PM

e01n

Posts: 1472
Status: offline

Personally, I'm offended that no one has commented on me dragging Steerpike into this...

At least that should get some rise out of some folks, one would hope!

<voluntarily edited to be nicer to people we don't know>

< Message edited by e01n -- 9/5/2007 12:34:40 PM >

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 12:42:48 PM

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Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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~fr~
It's all getting very predictable....

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to e01n)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 12:48:30 PM

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~fast reply~
I can't be heroic, I don't even ride a horse!

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 12:50:25 PM

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I have not read all the posts, so if I say something that has been covered, sorry.

White Knight syndrome is also knows as a savior complex as I see it. I see it pretty close up. . .so close I have to look at it in a mirror.

Somehow I always have the same story for the great loves of my life. They all dropped out of school, and were in bad relationships. All of them I said I can't get with prior to them leaving there husbands. All of them jumped me and had to tell me to shut up about their husbands prior to them actually leaving. All of them had kids, were pregnant, or both. All of their husbands were abusive. All of them needed to have a chance to be exactly who they were, and be accepted for it.

If you fit the above description you might just be my next ex. Btw I tend to stay friends with my ex's. I have references! Oh wait. . .off topic.

So I have the white knight syndrome. I draw the line when it interferes with personal growth. Being a white knight type does not mean always saving the person from outside dangers, but sometimes saving them from themselves. Making someone think for themselves, or overcome a fear so that they can better survive the outside world when you are not there is still saving them. My ex's will tell you that they learned from me. I had one ex who posted on her live journal about six months after we split up about how much she learned from me.

I don't think it is a bad thing when used right. I use it to get people to a better place in life, and to grow to a place where they no longer need me. I hope one day someone will stay after they reach that point because they want me, even if they don't have that need.
~Ki

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 1:03:22 PM

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This has been a good thread. I had not popped it open at first cause I was thinking the white knight SCA swirled up with domination. But someone mentioned it in another thread - glad I came and found it. thx Susan and for being a superb thread host as well.

_____________________________

Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
~ Gary Snyder

It takes a kinky village...

(in reply to KiandPhoenix)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 2:12:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
I await your evidence.

i changed my mind...Michael already referenced the post i was talking about...and apparently to some people the sun shines out your ass...

to respond to you here would further boost your ego and prove your point, to respond to you privately would cause you to cry out that i am attacking you, i am sure, and probably boost your ego and prove your point...so i will continue on with the topic as if this little thing didn't happen, you're dismissed...

the white knight syndrome is not about standing by the ones you love or helping out someone who needs it...but rather...well here is a short essay i found on it...replace Medicine with lifestyle and shamanism with Domination and you have this topic...

The White Knight Syndrome

I thought I would caution people about running out and healing every second of every day in the name of spirit because they where called. This is a pitfall and might end up burning you out and helping you into a place of cynicism at the very least and delusion at the very most.
If you have trouble believing this please do your own study of medicine people around you and ask these questions? Do they look rested and healthy? Are they happy? Do they laugh? Are they in a good functional relationship? Do they have a life outside of Medicine Circles that allows them to rejuvenate themselves?

When getting into shamanism there is a huge desire of wanting to help everyone. It’s natural to feel this way and to want to run out and help people but it can be a trap. And if you are going into “Radical Healing” in the dream be careful of climbing on the white horse, getting a banner and hunting every “Nasty Bit of Business” on a seek and destroy mission.

Please keep in mind that pain is a tool to learn and life is a learning experience. Not good or bad but rather a challenge and an opportunity. I ask you to think back to a time when life was completely rotten. Was it because of that experience that you are where you are today which is hear reading this. You are the sum of the whole experience of life. So if we can look at life as a challenge and an opportunity then I wonder why we have “Nasty Bits of Business?” Are they there to challenge us to learn quicker, better, deeper and in so doing create a huge experience to learn about ourselves?

Righteous babbling and or behavior leave how much room to receive all peoples in all walks of life? The best thing I find is to approach only that which comes within your sight or field of vision. This truly helps me not to get carried away with myself. In other words it keeps me off the white horse and out of the banner carrying white knight syndrome.

Dwende Copyright 2001

my take after reading this....white knight syndrome is bad all around -- for the knight and the rescuee...

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 3:29:00 PM

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From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
I await your evidence.

i changed my mind...Michael already referenced the post i was talking about...and apparently to some people the sun shines out your ass...

Life can be exceptionally cruel for some of us. You have my sympathy.

As for Michael, it appears he conjured a quote from Creative Dominant, not me (assuming you are referring to Post #82, Page 5 of this thread).

quote:

to respond to you here would further boost your ego and prove your point, to respond to you privately would cause you to cry out that i am attacking you, i am sure, and probably boost your ego and prove your point...so i will continue on with the topic as if this little thing didn't happen, you're dismissed...

Gee, Teach, that's thoughtful of you.

quote:

the white knight syndrome is not about standing by the ones you love or helping out someone who needs it...but rather...well here is a short essay i found on it...replace Medicine with lifestyle and shamanism with Domination and you have this topic...

The White Knight Syndrome

I thought I would caution people about running out and healing every second of every day in the name of spirit because they where called. This is a pitfall and might end up burning you out and helping you into a place of cynicism at the very least and delusion at the very most.
If you have trouble believing this please do your own study of medicine people around you and ask these questions? Do they look rested and healthy? Are they happy? Do they laugh? Are they in a good functional relationship? Do they have a life outside of Medicine Circles that allows them to rejuvenate themselves?

When getting into shamanism there is a huge desire of wanting to help everyone. It’s natural to feel this way and to want to run out and help people but it can be a trap. And if you are going into “Radical Healing” in the dream be careful of climbing on the white horse, getting a banner and hunting every “Nasty Bit of Business” on a seek and destroy mission.

Please keep in mind that pain is a tool to learn and life is a learning experience. Not good or bad but rather a challenge and an opportunity. I ask you to think back to a time when life was completely rotten. Was it because of that experience that you are where you are today which is hear reading this. You are the sum of the whole experience of life. So if we can look at life as a challenge and an opportunity then I wonder why we have “Nasty Bits of Business?” Are they there to challenge us to learn quicker, better, deeper and in so doing create a huge experience to learn about ourselves?

Dwende Copyright 2001

All of this is helpful if your mission in life is to heal others.

However, in bdsm, the healing is incidental to the main mission which is the fulfillment of who and what we are within the relationships we create with others who share this style of living.

Helping others is more along the lines of the Good Samaritan parable in the New Testament: if you come across someone in need of assistance, help to the extent you can.

But helping another should never become an obsession where you yourself end up sick from it.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to chellekitty)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 4:29:01 PM

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Joined: 7/25/2006
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Greetings
Still posting without reading the rest...but with tongue firmly in cheek...I draw the line on the sand or the carpet with the cane, paddle, whip or flogger....in blood if I have to. Seriously, I have long ago given up the white knight persona...does not work simply because they become dependent (if not already so) and that is not a healthy type of relationship or dynamic in My opinion. Mutual reliance is a different story, dependence not.

_____________________________

Be Well, Be Careful

Jarl Rmanrr

"the road untravelled is the loneliest." Me
Courage...the ability to overcome obstacles during the course.
"to be insane is to be original!"...Me

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 6:01:13 PM

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KiaandPhoenix: Thanks for focussing on a positive side to "White Knights".

e01n: Who is Steerpike? .

chellekitty: Thanks for the post re: Shamanism.

ocilla: Thanks.

rmanrr: Thanks for high-lighting a difference between mutual reliance and dependence - care to elaborate at all? (I appreciated what you said).

I appreciate all of the comments - thanks for writing in people.

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/5/2007 6:07:00 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to rmanrr)

RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" synd... - 9/5/2007 6:09:54 PM

e01n

Posts: 1472
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO: e01n: Who is Steerpike? .

<sigh>
He's the main character of the Gormenghast novels, but definitely not the hero...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steerpike

(in reply to SusanofO)

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