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RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/7/2007 4:13:40 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

Gives Mad Rabbit a bunch of carrots and bunny kibble

....and unlimited time in a field of dandelion greens!

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Elegant)

Post #: 101

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/7/2007 4:32:03 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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I'm one happy little bunny.

See....when the fish start to wiggle and flop around like that, then you just gotta grab them by the tail and slam their heads into the concrete.

_____________________________

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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 102

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/7/2007 5:06:39 PM

witchywoman313

Posts: 48
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

of course accidents can happen with whips (Duh). Isnt the mistique of whips part of there fun? They were invented as a way to punish someone/something to get them to do what you want IE drive animals, punish people. Of course they can cause injury. Granted whips for play might be a little diffent from those used to whip slaves, but they havent in design changed THAT much, I saw a replica norse slave whip (like a flogger) at a lecture I attended a few weeks ago that I just wanted to steal for my toybag.

I'm a switch so bear with me
as a sub- I wouldnt dream of letting any Dom tie me up that didnt understand I was trusting them with my life.

As a Top- I try to keep an eye out for safety thats my job when I Top, I respect that trust and have fun with it, in a SAFE, (as safe as I can make it) Sane, and consentual way, that means I dont get to ignore the fact that some (read most) toys are Inherintly dangerous, as is Bondage in genneral, my Job then is to Minimalize the risks, not ignore them that means to learn about new things before I go off haphazardly abusing subbieflesh. Its not UnDomly to get help or training or Gasp attend a seminar (had a hard time convincing my best friends "Sir" of that though) I find there is a fine line for most people anyway bettween good pain and bad pain, learning how to maximize the good and avoid the bad can make for a much happier sub. It could also avoid all those embarasing "Are you sure your safe with him/her?" questions in the ER. Besides in the words of a vannila swinger friend of mine. "The goal isnt just to get laid, its to get invited back."

(in reply to Elegant)

Post #: 103

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/7/2007 6:20:02 PM

Redoubt

Posts: 185
Joined: 8/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Sure you can teach a couple types of scene in just a few minutes (the whip is 4 ft your arm is 2.7 foot) if you keep the distance between yourself and the bottom at 7 ft apart you can crack that whip all night long without worry.

Except to the wielder... if hes cracking a whip like he's frickin' Indiana jones, and he's been using it just a few minutes, I'd put money on him hurting himself/herself before 10 mins was up.

I'm with the consensus and especially LadyT - I'm fascinated by them, in awe of the masters of them, but I treat them with healthy respect. Hypothetical situation, you're about to be in a streetfight against your wishes, you're in a fully stocked BDSM store, what do you take to be your main weapon...

You really want to take that bullwhip? If you can use one you will, its the most effective weapon there... but if youre not fully proficient, and smart, you'll take a couple of feet of chain... you'll do less hurt to yourself.

As a final reminder, remember that the crack comes from part of the whip travelling so fast it breaks the sound barrier. You mighta wanna get proficient with it before Raiding the Lost Arse of the submissive.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 104

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/7/2007 6:25:22 PM

Redoubt

Posts: 185
Joined: 8/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CoyoteWhips

Apples and oranges everywhere! Are we talking about a three-foot signal whip or a twelve-foot stock whip? In some ways I agree with BoiJen. Most people can learn to get started with a whip in a few minutes with competent instruction.

I saw a Domme messing around with a 3 foot signal whip trying to flick off a light switch for practice... she quit about 1 minute later after the whip smashed the light fixture.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CoyoteWhips
Any impact toy in the hands of an inexperienced Dom/me is bad news. Take some classes. Get direction from other more experienced peers. Respect, but don't fear your whip.

Agreed, except that I think respect with a stronger dose of responsibility is probably whats needed from a whip wielder.

(in reply to CoyoteWhips)

Post #: 105

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/7/2007 9:54:03 PM

dragonslave77

Posts: 32
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Wow beaten through the night or at least hrs on end to end up injured enough to go to a hospital. I'm sorry even with a light wieght nylon whip someone is bound to get tired before that point. Much less with a heavier cow hide or roo whip. Also, with those stories of slaves being beaten until the were bloody and raw and all that....there's more than one person beating them. Last I checked no one in the BDSM community has done such. Can't find any record of it at least.

Respectfully, I disagree, and can provide photographic evidence to the contrary. One Domme, one beating/whipping, one pretty raw and bloody back. Mind you I'm not complaining, but it can be done.

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 106

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/7/2007 10:15:04 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Dear Elegant, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I am one that feels ALL tools used can be instruments to injury--accidental or not.

I was a victim to a 'know it all' male Dominant, to which had a single tail and came into the seating area off the dungeon floor. He snapped semi-empty plastic cups of beer showing off. One sailed and landed on my leather dress ruining it and beer splattered on me and my guest from out of town. Not one peep of an apology and no offers to help clean up his own mess. This is when single tails were the newest fad. Next weekend this same chap cracking his whip started into the social area once again and I said to him, to please go back to the dungeon floor. He said, "I know how to handle whips ..what are you afraid of? That you might get hurt?" While saying this--he has been flipping his whip about--inches from people's faces--they're moving in a hurry. Now, I start standing and I am ready to snatch the single tail out of his hands next throw my direction. I remember three board members from BR, at the time rush and lifted him up and carried him away from my reach, they took the single tail away from him so fast it made his mind swim. He was immediately banned. One of the biggest board members came back and said... "Hugs..I never seen you like that before--it was scary and if that was just your annoyed mode--I hope never to see you angry."

This chap did later move down to Williamsburg, Virginia and had reports he was nothing less than rude, crude and full of bull pies stacked high. Most of all, he created his own reputation on being dangerous.

Another incident, was with a heavy masochist I Topped. A female Dominant went to hit on him without real negotiations and beat him up rather bad. The masochist was bruised, beaten and vowed never to let the woman touch him again. Her reputation has always been bad, injuring many--some hospitalized. She does profess to be an expert yet, she could not flog a small male or hit target spots with any consistancy. I really do believe not enough is done to distinguish between artful, skillful and anatomy friendly whip and or impact skills verses just beating the royal 'snot' out of someone. It is my opinion that lack of skill should not be guised under S&M. However, that is what is happening from what I am seeing in my area.

In giving presentations, mentoring and demonstrations in different capacities; I also advise that other than impact dangers there are things that ruin scenes like equipment failure. I've seen whips come apart, snaps shatter due to some flaw, canes shatter/splinter, connecting brads come loose or exposed, etc. It pays to inspect the bondage furniture as well as the impact toys/tools one uses. It isn't the toys/tools/equipment we use that is the problem --it is the humans who are using them. There is little mention of collateral damage, when whips stray off target or people stray into them and or equipment failure, such as handle and tails of whips separate and launch on a journey beyond any's control.

Accidents will happen, even to the best of technical whip masters. I've seen Bob Deegan, Joe Wheeler and others have mishaps. Knowing accidents and or mishaps can/may/will/could happen--it is taking preventative steps to lower the risks that takes time but, worth for both parties (Top/bottom, Dominant/submissive and or M/s) to inspect their tools and or equipment. Cuffs, whips, canes--everything should be inspected for flaws, trouble spots and or wear, weakness and get them repaired or replaced; instead of assuming they will last forever.

For me, I have novices stay put as they practice their single tail techniques. I move a target as to give them aim and also different depths. The time is right for a human, I have the bottom back into the single tail and adjust their position as to be right on target for the bottom/sub's sake and this way the Dom can see a visual portrait of what their distance and target zones should look like. From "Eastcoast and Westcoast" styles of whip work-- each has their gains and draw backs. Each person learns at different paces, so it pays to be patient.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

< Message edited by LadyHugs -- 9/7/2007 10:51:54 PM >

(in reply to Elegant)

Post #: 107

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 4:18:57 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Put both groups in boat... and Sink the FUCKING BOAT....
PS... chain them to the boat first.

Ah, but that would be a demonstrably dangerous form of bondage.

You round 'em up, and I'll drop by the local rope factory.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 108

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 10:34:05 AM

Phin

Posts: 1802
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

Lady Hugs, you always seem to post with thought an inteligence, thank you. (BTW I will be giving my toys a serious once over before my next scene)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Accidents will happen, even to the best of technical whip masters. I've seen Bob Deegan, Joe Wheeler and others have mishaps. Knowing accidents and or mishaps can/may/will/could happen--it is taking preventative steps to lower the risks that takes time but, worth for both parties (Top/bottom, Dominant/submissive and or M/s) to inspect their tools and or equipment. Cuffs, whips, canes--everything should be inspected for flaws, trouble spots and or wear, weakness and get them repaired or replaced; instead of assuming they will last forever.

something tells me that if this isnt the exact point of the OP, it is close. Any toy that we use can and will cause injury, either from malice, accident, or the toy falling apart and peices flying across the room.

Personally I do not fear the idea of using a single tail. I have practiced with a 4-foot signal whip and was fair with the aim. Am I ready to tag flesh with it? Hell no.

there are risks with WIITWD, and if someone says that there are none, they are an idiot, but the risks are not so great that years of experience is required before play. Those risks can be minimized by training and intelligence, but there will always be risk.

I would also be weary of the "Dom/me" that swells like an overblown puffer fish. and says "I am Dom, These toys can kill but in My skilled hands..."

You may count me as one sitting comfortably on the fence for this one.

_____________________________

"Isn't wonderful when our bruises show what we hide in the back of our heads?"Fayetteville band, Nephilym

"He is my angel, my devil, my naughty boy, but above anything else my Master"My girl sin

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 109

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 10:51:44 AM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant
But I play knowing the risks and knowing the skill level of the one who is throwing the whip.

As someone who loves whips from the top side, I would say it's equally important to know your own limitations. My only "accidents" with my singetail have been because I got overconfident or overzealous and lost my aim and good technique. Luckily no one was injured but I did accidentally strike my current partner across the face on our first date, over a year ago. He's very forgiving and we're still together....and I attribute that slip up to being in the heat of the moment: a state that doesn't mix well with whips for me personally.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to Elegant)

Post #: 110

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 11:24:01 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Put both groups in boat... and Sink the FUCKING BOAT....
PS... chain them to the boat first.

Ah, but that would be a demonstrably dangerous form of bondage.

You round 'em up, and I'll drop by the local rope factory.

np... I enjoy alittle edge play...... But to show I have some compassion.... I will throw the keys that locks the chains into the water before we sink the boat..... maybe they will get get lucky and find the keys... and of course find the right key for the right lock...

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 111

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 11:43:36 AM

cbtok

Posts: 70
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

The number one cause for injuries resulting in hopsital or emergency care in the BDSM world are caused from rope use. Rope bondage is also the number one leader in accidental death in the BDSM world.

Citation, please? I'd like to read the source for these facts myself. I have a vested interested in such because of my hard-core penchant for rope bondage. Thanks in advance,

Celeste

OK, I tend to ask and I have friends in low places.

I did ask recently of several kink-friendly ER persons (MDs, RNs). They tell me that the number one injury from kinky play, at least in their experience in NYC is inserting things into the rectum without planning on how to get them out. Now maybe the players in NYC are "anal-retentive," or maybe the players in NYC only go to the ER for stuff that won't pass back through the anal sphincter but that is the non-scientific answer I got recently when I did ask.

This is not to suggest that rope, floggers, bottle tops, singletails, whartenburg wheels affixed to rope floggers and such cannot cause injury and that we should not be concerned about these things.

I would say that, due to the menacing look of a singletail as well as its "faster than a speeding bullet" cracker end making that loud popping sound, inexperienced people tend to wait until they have had a few lessons before they make a singletail a main focus of their play. Also, most of the people who wield singletails tend to take care to look around the public "dungeon" they're in before they start a poppin'.

But I'm no expert on anything I haven't seen and I cannot speak for the kink scene much outside NYC. Everyone has seen freak accidents. Most frequent and experienced players tend to have fewer accidents.

Always handy to have a medical kit handy when playing though.

_____________________________

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 112

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 11:49:57 AM

SunnyTawse

Posts: 151
Joined: 11/17/2004
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Based on personal experience, I'd recommend first use (after practice, of course) of a singletail to be on a masochist. That way, it all works out.

Hmmm... injuries... vs. death? According to Jay Wiseman, breath play is the leading cause of death in the fetish community.

Sunny Tawse
Sadien Domina

(in reply to cbtok)

Post #: 113

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 11:54:56 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
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Since there's nothing remotely like empirical evidence available about this, people just make this stuff up as it suits them. Sometimes you hear that self-bondage is the leading cause of death. Other times it's breath play. Still other times it's rope. I don't think anyone knows jackshit about the real statistics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SunnyTawse

According to Jay Wiseman, breath play is the leading cause of death in the fetish community.

(in reply to SunnyTawse)

Post #: 114

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 12:00:59 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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I would just like to see one actual documented case of Death that occurred during a Consenual BDSM scene and it was the BDSM that actually caused the death..... todate.. I haven't seen one....

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 115

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 12:08:49 PM

cbtok

Posts: 70
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I would just like to see one actual documented case of Death that occurred during a Consenual BDSM scene and it was the BDSM that actually caused the death..... to date.. I haven't seen one....

Your photo looks young so you may not recall The Preppie Murder Mr. Chambers was convicted of killing Jennifer Levin and his defense was that she liked "rough sex," an euphemism for D/s sex with breath play. He's out now, after serving 15 years.

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What if there were no hypothetical questions?

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 116

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 12:18:46 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

OK, on the one hand we have literally thousands of accumulated years of experience of BDSM fetishists on this website...and on the other hand we have the Preppie Murder Case from over 20 years ago. No one knows what the hell happened in the Preppie Murder Case. For all we know, the son of a bitch killed her on purpose.

I knew a friend of Jennifer Levin. (I grew up in New York at the time.) To call a spade a spade, no one who knew her was too surprised that she woke up dead one morning.

(in reply to cbtok)

Post #: 117

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 12:20:36 PM

Grlwithboy

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Since there's nothing remotely like empirical evidence available about this, people just make this stuff up as it suits them. Sometimes you hear that self-bondage is the leading cause of death. Other times it's breath play. Still other times it's rope. I don't think anyone knows jackshit about the real statistics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SunnyTawse

According to Jay Wiseman, breath play is the leading cause of death in the fetish community.

Yes. Again, I'd like to know how many people are estimated to engage in bondage. One would think you'd want to know something like that before you can determine if it's the leading cause of accident or not.

In my *observation* it has been. But that's just my observation and where I happen to be at what time.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 118

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 12:24:17 PM

Grlwithboy

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cbtok

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I would just like to see one actual documented case of Death that occurred during a Consenual BDSM scene and it was the BDSM that actually caused the death..... to date.. I haven't seen one....

Your photo looks young so you may not recall The Preppie Murder Mr. Chambers was convicted of killing Jennifer Levin and his defense was that she liked "rough sex," an euphemism for D/s sex with breath play. He's out now, after serving 15 years.

So essentially a defense so crappy and far fetched that a good looking wealthy white boy was given 15 and actually served it. Sounds like it may not have been the prime factor to me.

(in reply to cbtok)

Post #: 119

RE: Whips and 'Accidents' - 9/8/2007 12:52:43 PM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

I love bottoming for singletail play, absolutely love it. That said, I also recognize and understand the risks. I have been accidentally cut on a few occasions by the whip during play. They were all fairly minor and no big deal to me. Whips can cut and damage by accident and to the point of requiring hospital care if only an ER visit. Not only the bottom can be injured during play either......I know a top who hit himself in the eye accidentally during a scene. To state absolutely that whips don't/can't cause injury serious enough for an ER trip or worse from doing s/m play is totally false. I play fully aware of the potential risks and accept them, but I'd never downplay, overplay, or state there are no risks. They exist, I still play and love it. Be aware of the risks, but don't necessarily let them totally rule the choices you make.

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Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to Grlwithboy)

Post #: 120

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