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Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 2:55:28 AM   
Steelonme


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Can someone tell me why a certain Master thinks it's ok to beat a sub's ass to a bloody red pulp? He says it's not like any permanent harm or broken bones was done. It's used to break a sub. Kinda sounds like my father. If I got hurt when I was a kid he would say " I didnt feel a thing". What? I'm not allowed to have limits?
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 3:30:20 AM   
arayofsunshine55


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From: San Francisco, CA
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No I can't tell you why someone else thinks something is OK.  Really I cannot.  And if he finds folks who share his kink?  More power to him.  If you aren't one of those people?  Then you are not compatible.  Simple.  If he is already your master.  Well then you have a bit more of an issue.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to Steelonme)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 4:33:20 AM   
TNstepsout


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Wow-sounds very abusive to me. There are some Dom/mes who like to abuse people under the guise of BDSM. It doesn't mean it's right or OK.

(in reply to arayofsunshine55)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 4:39:28 AM   
Jill805


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You are allowed to have limits.  Did you set them at the beginning of the relationship?

(in reply to TNstepsout)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 4:42:43 AM   
mistoferin


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If you are referring to a situation involving yourself, why did you allow him to do so? Was it a miscommunication of limits? Did you state limits? If you did, how are you now addressing the issue with him?

_____________________________

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Steelonme)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 5:05:44 AM   
Drifa


Posts: 547
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Rural Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelonme

Can someone tell me why a certain Master thinks it's ok to beat a sub's ass to a bloody red pulp? He says it's not like any permanent harm or broken bones was done. It's used to break a sub. Kinda sounds like my father. If I got hurt when I was a kid he would say " I didnt feel a thing". What? I'm not allowed to have limits?


You are asking the wrong people about this. You should be talking to the Master. You should be carefully negotiating your limits and what's to be done before the scene starts.  If your limits are then calluosly disregarded, don't go back - he's proved he is not worthy of trust, plain and simple.  Where was your safeword? Was your safeword used but ignored? GET THE HELL OUT IF THAT HAPPENS.

I like caning. I am not OK with cuts or blood blisters since I must go to work and sit in a desk chair 8 hours the next day. This is carefully discussed before a session using such implements.  I mean, I can understand an accident where one stroke lands wrong and OMFG you get one too hard/too deep.  But at the point I expect my Lady to stop the scene, and start taking care of the "oopsie" in a calm and dominant manner.

I also like being taken into levels of pain that aren't simply pleasurable... it's like a psychic and physical exorcism. It's not really "breaking" though. To be restrained, and have a beating of some sort ramp up into levels where I'm literally crying and begging. But then, there is *always* the safeword, and knowing I *could* use it lets me submit to her, lets me allow her to take me beyond the pain and into the place where I stop fighting against it and just accept it. But the key here is that I have limits, I have a safeword, and *I* could end it if I chose.  And I have - once because a scorpion decided to join in the fun and THAT WAS SO NOT OK!! And once because I had a groin pull from struggling that was totally awful.

Communication is critical in relationships and in sex, no matter how kinky or vanilla. It's even more critical in BDSM and D/s.

(in reply to Steelonme)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 7:46:53 AM   
SmokingGun82


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelonme
Can someone tell me why a certain Master thinks it's ok to beat a sub's ass to a bloody red pulp?


Because it is ok. If it's consensual, at least. If this is something that happened to you, and it's something you didn't agree to, then it's abuse, not "breaking" or whatever pretty little term he would like. Actually, if it happened to anyone who didn't agree to it, then it's abuse.

Breaking is fine, if there's an agreement that it's going to happen. Bloody and bruised asses/breasts/etcetera are fine, if it's consensual. It's anytime something isn't consensual it's a problem. Communication is important, in all aspects of life, and this is no different.

Oh, and just from my personal experience, if someone does something once, they're likely to do it again. Unless it's just a situation where you (or whoever) didn't clearly explain their limits, in which case it could be an honest mistake.


_____________________________

It frightens me, the awful truth of how sweet life can be.
- Bob Dylan

Proper capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my Uncle Jack off a horse" and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse."

(in reply to Steelonme)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 10:53:31 AM   
CatKnight


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You're getting some good advice here.  From the tone of your post I'm going to guess that this happened to you.  I'm also going to guess you're relatively new on scene (like me!) since the advice you're getting is fairly basic.  If you've done all this, I apologize in advance.
 
Breaking:  I'm not too crazy with your top already if he's using that term.  (Note the different term: top/bottom and dom/sub are two different things, and a D/s situation is not necessarily master/slave.)  No, the more I think about this 'breaking' really bugs me. 
 
It's alright to train a sub, certainly.  Submission requires a certain mindset that, even if you might have the tendency for, needs some fine tuning.  However that takes time and patience.  Trust must be allowed time to build up.  Only once there's basic trust will someone even be able to learn from 'correction.'  Immediately taking someone past what they can endure is .. silly.
 
When my fiance topped me (now I usually lead), she started slowly, introducing new ideas and new stimuli at light intensity, then a little harder and so forth.  That's how (at least for us) I built trust with her in this lifestyle/format, and probably just as useful it helped her start pinning down where my physical limits (how many strokes I can take before it REALLY hurts, that kind of thing) are.
 
Setting the Scene:  *I* didn't realize this until I talked with her last night, and there are probably tops out there who don't do this - but unless the top is trying to surprise you (which can be lots of fun), there's nothing wrong with negotiating the scene itself.  This is an excellent time to communicate your needs and wants.  "You can do what you want, just hold me afterwards," or "I've always wondered what it'd feel like to be ravaged" are perfectly legitimate requests.
 
Limits:  YOU set those.  Not him.  It is your body.  This is a consensual activity - a reason I really don't like this 'breaking' crap.  You are choosing to submit to someone to get certain stimuli, and in exchange he gets certain stimuli.  You decide if there's somewhere you're not ready to go or don't want to.
 
I'll give you a simple example.  I have a hard (non-negotiable) limit on breath-control/manipulation, as top or bottom.  Simply put I'm an asthmatic.  I know what it feels like to nearly choke out and I never want to feel that again, nor do I want to watch someone I care for go through it.  Therefore extreme mummification, noosing, strangling, drowning...no.  I have the authority and right as a human being to say No.  Submitting to someone, short of some extreme examples that require advanced negotiation, does not change that.
 
If you don't want your tail beaten to a pulp, you have every right to say no.  The top may decide he doesn't want to play anymore, but he does NOT have the right to say 'tough.'
 
Safewords:  Central to the idea of consensuality for me is safewords.  I know for a fact there are many doms who don't like to use them.  I suppose that's fair enough if the sub agrees, but I consider it dangerous.
 
A safeword can be as simple as "No!" "Stop!" but sometimes you might be in a scene where you're using those words - for example if he's pretending to rape you.  Therefore the two agree on a word that's unlikely to be used in normal play, and what it means.
 
Safewords must be respected.  Even if the top suspects it's being abused - safewords must be respected.  They can always renegotiate later.
 
The fairly universal safeword - 'Red' in my play - calls for an immediate halt and go straight to aftercare.  It implies that there is a physical, emotional or mental emergency, that the top has just wandered off-limits (such as my breath control thingy), or you have reached your limit of what you can stand at this time. 
 
As an example closer to your compliant, if my fiance tops she might use a riding crop on me.  It's not a hard limit, so she has my consent.  However if she thinks thirty or forty strokes might be amusing, she's forgotten I'm new to this and don't have the endurance.  30-40 with a crop would be far, far beyond the point where I'd find it remotely interesting at this stage in my experience, so unless I've agreed to undergo correction then I have a right to withdraw my consent and ask her to stop. 
 
It is possible before a scene (or before a relationship) to voluntarily withdraw your right to say 'no' at a given time I suppose, but I wouldn't even consider it until you're VERY comfortable with your top and trust them implicitly.
 
Trust:  And that brings us back to my most important bone to pick with this situation.  Are any of the following true?
 
1.  You established a limit on how much pain you're prepared for and he ignored it.
2.  You used a safeword and he ignored it.
3.  In absence of a safeword, while no doubt crying/writhing you begged him to stop/said No and he ignored it.
 
Unless specifically agreed upon before the scene or relationship started. ("I can do what I want to you, and you will like it.") then this is a critical breach of trust.  Do not go back to him.  If you were...inexperienced...enough to accept his collar, return it now. 
 
In exchange for the power buzz, right to set the scene and so forth, the top assumes responsibility for much of the bottom's well being.  The bottom has her safeword, but the top should be watching to see if she's had enough.  It is most certainly the top's responsibility to help the bottom explore their wants and needs, find their limits, and then respect them.
 
Trust is everything in any relationship, but especially here.  I don't mean to frighten you, but I want to be absolutely clear here.  When you consent to be tied down you are putting yourself in mortal danger. 
 
It can be a lot of fun to just yield to another human being and let them have you, but you need to know they're going to watch out for you.  If you bottom for the wrong person you CAN end up maimed, brutalized and even killed.  It's happened.
 
If you can't trust this person, then get the bloody hell out of there.  There are plenty of people out there who will be happy to top/Dom you without taking you to extremes you're not ready for.




(in reply to SmokingGun82)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 3:33:11 PM   
mischievousone


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I really hope your coming back and reading the advice here. 
If it happened to you, and you feel it was extreme you need to very calmly explain that it was past your limits.  If he doesn't care, leave.  If you had a safe word and he didn't listen when you used it, leave.  Ultimately the choice is yours.

Be safe.

< Message edited by mischievousone -- 9/7/2007 3:34:10 PM >

(in reply to CatKnight)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 4:18:04 PM   
Evanesce


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I'm inclined to think "a bloody red pulp" is a bit of an exaggeration, but yes, it is OK to want to severely beat someone's ass, provided that someone agrees to it. 
 
Personally, I rather enjoy having my ass bruised up so that I feel it for a few days afterwards; and if it bleeds, well... that's just a bonus.  However, if you have a problem with that type of play, then you need to be discussing it with said Master.  Did you know in advance he wanted to play that hard?  If you know he wants to play that way, and you're saying it's a limit for you, then it's fairly obvious the two of you are not going to be compatible.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


(in reply to mischievousone)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 8:01:32 PM   
Maya2001


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Sounds like the after discussion has taken place with the dom seeing nothing wrong in what has been done and wishing to continue as is , if the sub does not agree,  than  it does boil down to abuse since not consentual  and time to end things.   because limits in relationships need to be respected if a relationship is to be satisfying and enjoyable for both parties 

(in reply to Evanesce)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 8:29:14 PM   
slaveluci


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From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce
yes, it is OK to want to severely beat someone's ass, provided that someone agrees to it. 
 
Personally, I rather enjoy having my ass bruised up so that I feel it for a few days afterwards; and if it bleeds, well... that's just a bonus. 

And if that's "abuse," I really got abused last Thursday.  I'm still wearing the marks and bruises.  I just had to brag because I just haven't been able to keep my marks for long.  I think I should really have lots of them but then they just fade.  I finally got some last week that have lasted and lasted and I'm so proud.  Ok....just had to share that...........luci

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(in reply to Evanesce)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/7/2007 9:09:12 PM   
velvetears


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You are allowed to have limits but the time to think about them or set them if before you play. 

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/8/2007 1:31:47 AM   
seeksfemslave


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I suppose the true answer is that Sadism is known to exist.
Circular argument lol
People have done far worse things than severely whip arse and  got pleasure out of it.

Cruelty disgusts me but attracts others. Who knows why ?


(in reply to Steelonme)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/8/2007 6:19:51 AM   
Steelonme


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Well I have to start off by saying thank you to all for the responses and advice. Yes, I'm rather new to this particular scene. I used to play games with my ex wife who I had the utmost trust in. But now I'm seeking another I can trust and be willing to submit to. No this person has not done this to me yet and from reading your responses I dont think he is the person for me. He wants no limits or he sets the limits. Tells me I'm trying to top from the bottom. And when I say red pulp I'm not kidding. He sent a picture of a girls ass that was so red and bruised and just to the point of laceration it kind of scared me. Another Top who has been pursuing me on AOL for a few years before I met him here on Collarme, is into gags. So there goes any possiblity of using a safeword. If you like that sort of thing good for you but I must have certain limits that must be respected.

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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/8/2007 6:23:02 AM   
Steelonme


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And I think I'll print Catknights long response for future reference lol.  And Evanesce, I could send you the pic. If you like that maybe you could be his sub

(in reply to Steelonme)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/9/2007 12:16:48 AM   
Evanesce


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No, thanks, Steelonme.  I'd much rather be on the Top side of the equation, and the Kaptin is the only one who gets to mark me up these days.  It's that whole slave is property thing, yanno.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


(in reply to Steelonme)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/9/2007 6:04:06 AM   
Drifa


Posts: 547
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Rural Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelonme
No this person has not done this to me yet and from reading your responses I dont think he is the person for me.


I completely agree... just as with ANY other relationship, you may or may not be compatible. There is a huge range of interests and desires that are described by the fairly general terms BDSM and D/s. I would really recommend passing on this fellow.

Better yet, Google to find BDSM related groups and roganizations in your area and make contacts to locate munches and similar gatherings where you can go and meet people face-to-face. You'll get a group of like-minded people and you will really get to see the range of kinks out there! ;-)  And, I think, you are much more likely to find a play partner or long-term relationship that suits YOUR needs and desires.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelonme
He wants no limits or he sets the limits. Tells me I'm trying to top from the bottom.


That's not how this works.  There ARE times I have gone into a scene with JUST these conditions. With my Lady, who I have been with for years and years, and who I trust utterly. I would NEVER allow this with someone else, ever.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelonme
And when I say red pulp I'm not kidding. He sent a picture of a girls ass that was so red and bruised and just to the point of laceration it kind of scared me.


Some people like that. I don't want cuts or blood blisters myself, but I don't mind marks at all. And I occasionally get treated to a carefully measured amount of caning, which leaves deep bruises and some ferocious welts.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean YOU muct like and/or accept that level of pain. Not all D/s relationships have pain involved. Some people just do the power exchange. Many people do have a dynamic that allows for some tie-up-and-spank action in varying degrees of severity.  You simply need to find a person whose desires match more closely with yours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelonme
Another Top who has been pursuing me on AOL for a few years before I met him here on Collarme, is into gags. So there goes any possiblity of using a safeword. If you like that sort of thing good for you but I must have certain limits that must be respected.


When using a gag, instead of a safeword you need a safe action.  Some people hand the bottom an item to hold that if they drop it is the same as safewording out.

You know, I'd recommend that you look at a book called SM101: A Realistic Introduction by Jay Wiseman. He discusses a lot of stuff about the art of negotiating your limits and how to use safewords and how to safely and sanely go about finding partners into this sort of kink. Checking Amazon.com this morning, the new price is about $17. It might also be available in libraries in enlightened areas, or someone in teh local BDSM community might have a copy they'd lend.

(in reply to Steelonme)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/9/2007 6:10:37 PM   
BlackWolfSwitch


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Beaten to a bloody pulp? Well I can safely say that even if it may be an exaggeration, it's not far from the truth. Some people have a spanking fetish, and tie that in with being a sadist.. and a few other hints of enjoyment in dealing out such an ass-whooping, and you've got 'beaten to a bloody pulp'. We all know the 'glowing red' remark when talking about spanking, and we all know how some love to mark another's ass up a bit.. such as with a cane or flogger, or what-have-you. All that aside, some enjoy the extreme of actually causing blood to flow, as some bottoms enjoy it.

True BDSM and D/s aside.. yes as one person said there are people that beat the living hell out of other's backsides for the pure sick enjoyment of it and label it BDSM, or D/s, or whatever they can come up with to cover-story their bullcrap.

It's just one of those things.. it's different with each individual.
I for one am not the type to enjoy having someone turn my backside into a red mess.
To each their own.


_____________________________

"Command of the collar, or submission to wear it. It's your choice. My choice is to know what I like from both."

(in reply to Drifa)
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RE: Beaten to a pulp? - 9/9/2007 7:03:02 PM   
Steelonme


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Joined: 7/15/2007
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Yes Drifa, you are very right. I think this one is a definite pass. Someone who cant or wont respect limits by saying I set your limits is not for me. I believe this person wants a total slave/toy more then he wants a "sub".

(in reply to Drifa)
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