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Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 7:22:15 AM

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Living in West Virginia rebel flags are just about everywhere.My 13 year old son loves wearing shirts that show the flag .He was told to turn his shirt inside out the other day in school because someone found it offensive.My son gets along with everyone(besides the teachers).He does not chose his friends by colors.My believe is there are many other slogans on shirts that are way more offensive than the rebel flag or am i wrong?

RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 7:27:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: itseeks

Living in West Virginia rebel flags are just about everywhere.My 13 year old son loves wearing shirts that show the flag .He was told to turn his shirt inside out the other day in school because someone found it offensive.My son gets along with everyone(besides the teachers).He does not chose his friends by colors.My believe is there are many other slogans on shirts that are way more offensive than the rebel flag or am i wrong?

You aren't exactly wrong but some things offend others that you're okay with. Then sometimes you can be offended by something someone else sees as okay. There is a lot of emotion attached to that symbol.

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 7:32:55 AM

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itseeks:

I can understand your point of view, and it is difficult. I almost got a tattoo of a rebel flag on my arm in the service because in Colorado the symbol was not as threatening as it is in the south. I really did not wish to return here; however, my family is here, and I migrated back home.
My boyfriend at the time picked me up and said you are not going to get a tattoo of a rebel flag. Thank God for him. I thank him every day for not allowing me to get the tattoo.
I have two tats now, but they are on my back. They are butterflies and roses.
That flag triggers reaction. It is part of the past and should be part of the past. The school should have a dress code that states no offensive wear. Heck, some of these young girls wears skirts that to short in my opinion.
My soulution:
Uniforms in school. In my opinion the school was correct in taking this action unless they allowed others to wear it and made only your son wear it inside out.

Regards, MissSCD

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 7:34:29 AM

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quote:

My believe is there are many other slogans on shirts that are way more offensive than the rebel flag or am i wrong?

That there are things more offensive than a depiction of a rebel flag? No doubt.

But it will do until a really offensive symbol comes along.

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 7:35:02 AM

dovie

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aaaaarrrrrggghhhhhh

going to get much needed coffee and wait for someone else to address this one.....

dream well,
dovie

< Message edited by dovie -- 9/18/2007 7:43:29 AM >

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 7:37:42 AM

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as far as i know kids can wear a shirt with dixie on it to school still but they did change the state flag ( and the citizens of the state were not allowed to vote on it) alot of people find the image offensive i personally do not and i think its wrong to make a kid turn their shirt in side outwards when alot of kids are wearing much more offensive things and i think they should be doing something about baggy pants.. that's my bit on the whole thing......

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 7:46:27 AM

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You think youve got problems? My idiot son came home yesterday with a swastika drawn on the back of his hand.

"What the hell is that?" I asked

"You should see xxxxxx, he did one on his forehead". He replied

"I dont give a flying fuck", I replied, "what xxxx does. That symbol is very offensive to a lot of people - it means hate and hurt and pain and death and will get you expelled from school. Go scrub it off"

"But its a sunwheel" replies smartarse, "I'm Hindu"

"STFU and wash it off now. Youre about as Hindu as my right tit. I know damned well what it is as well as it being a nazi symbol. Its a shame we cant use it, but we cant and thats that"

Kids eh?

E

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 7:52:34 AM

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If you aren't allowed to offend anyone, you aren't free.

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 7:56:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

If you aren't allowed to offend anyone, you aren't free.

Perhaps, but if people are allowed to offend me in order for them to be free, then for me to be free I should surely be permitted to stamp on their heads until their skulls crack?

This is where all criticisms of our freedom end - in the uncomfortable fact that for all of us to be totally free is impossible as our rights must end where the rights of another begin.

E

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 8:05:30 AM

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nothing offends me at all

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 8:08:32 AM

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Just one final word from the mouth of the South here. I lived with racial hatred all my life. It was in my own family. I will not allow racial slurs or flags in my home.
That is where it stops. It stops at home. My question is why the post was ever put on a BDSM website to begin with. The only thing the school could have done differently was sent the kid home with an explanation. They need to have a firm written policy on what the kids can wear.
I shutter to think what I must have looked like in the 70s and 80s to my parents. I wore black for two decades. lol

Regards, MissSCD

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 8:12:22 AM

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Nothing offends me either. And I am one heck of a potential target!

Well, thats not strictly true I suppose - rabid intolerance of others based on dogma offends me; the sort I sometimes see on TV with some mullah or preacher telling everyone how xxxx type people are xxxx and so deserving of xxxx. But symbols etc? Nah.

Still, its likely that not everyone feels the same way, and so to avoid a damned good kicking its best to avoid causing offence where possible perhaps. Causing offence for no reason is just plain silly and poor manners in my opinion.

E

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 8:13:25 AM

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I actually do have the confederate flag tattooed on my lower back.

...not exactly the flag, but its a tribal with the flag inlaid into it...I was raised in south georgia, and yea...it was the state flag for a long long time.....many people still use it as the state flag...wasnt exactly our choice to have it removed. Look....I understand it offends alot of people, but I dont wear it to be offensive, and anyone who gets fucking snobbish about the fact that I have it tattooed on my back, obviously isnt really worth getting to know so they understand thats not me anyway....In my senior yearbook...there is a large picture on one of the club activity pages, with me standing dead center in the photo. There are about 60 people in the picture with me, and im the only "caucasian"....and I happen to be wearing a rebel flag tshirt. No one in that photo was ever offended by me, in fact most of them thought it was hilarious. (honestly I had forgotten it was picture day when I got dressed that morning......)

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 8:19:29 AM

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If I couldn't wear a t-shirt with a reefer leaf on the front to school, then by god no one is wearing a flag, ANY kind of damned flag, to school either!

edited to add on a more serious note.......I do understand why the school won't allow it. Too much crap attached to it. Around here, in southern Iowa, lots of hillbillies. See lots of rebel flag crap. All I think of when I see it is "ahhhhhh, a person with lower than average brain cell count".

Basically, it's a symbol proclaiming to the world " I am stupid white trailer trash!!! "

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 9/18/2007 8:22:35 AM >

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 8:25:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

This is where all criticisms of our freedom end - in the uncomfortable fact that for all of us to be totally free is impossible as our rights must end where the rights of another begin.

E

This comes back to the Rushdie affair. Should he have not written the Satanic Verses because he offended muslims? In my eyes he had every right to write it, he wasn't going round breaking skulls or preventing people from going about their lawful business. Some people need offending to wake them up, rather than responding to everything by reflex or social pressure.

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 8:39:44 AM

ChicagoSwitchMal

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You know how a kid will say the word 'bitch' to their parents in reference to female dog and when you look at them funny then reply "what? that's the word!". Well, its true but really they just wanted to say the word 'bitch' in front of you.

Same principle.

The rebel flag is not offensive to me. It just means southern pride IMO. But it does have connotations. I dont know your child itseeks so I'm not suggesting anything. But if a kid was riding out the innocence of the symbol and sticking the connotation in someone's face then yes, I think that's offensive.

But hey, if you child is completely innocent of any mal intention then I suggest buying him a TShirt with a Mississippi flag on it(rebel flag is the upper left corner). That should piss his teachers off. I mean how could they tell him to turn inside out a US sponsord state flag? lol

(in reply to MissSCD)

RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 8:50:31 AM

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Good point MC, but not the point I believe.

There is a world of difference between making a critique or writing an allegorical story, and deliberately setting out to offend. I wholeheartedly support freedom of speech and expression - but there is a limit to it. Rushdie's book was OK, but if he'd written a placard reading "Mohammed is a pig" and stood outside the Mosque with it on Friday, it wouldnt be OK.

I guess if I'm to be pushed on where this not so subtle line lies, it is with true vs false. For example -

"black boys do poorly in the education system after age 12" is OK. Anyone getting offended by that fact, which can be backed up by evidence, is off their trolley. Its not offensive - its a call to do something about it.

however

"black boys are morons" is not OK. It does not reflect fact (in fact it seems that black boys lose interest in education, not intellectual capacity) and implies a negative value judgement on a group. Those who set out to offend tend to steer clear of facts, rely on stereotypes and use negative value judgements in this way.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 9:01:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HotFaerieMama

as far as i know kids can wear a shirt with dixie on it to school still but they did change the state flag ( and the citizens of the state were not allowed to vote on it) alot of people find the image offensive i personally do not and i think its wrong to make a kid turn their shirt in side outwards when alot of kids are wearing much more offensive things and i think they should be doing something about baggy pants.. that's my bit on the whole thing......

I thought the SAME thing!!!!

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RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 11:15:25 AM

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I grew up in suburban Atlanta and my family is from rural Alabama. I grew up around pervasive display of the so called "southern cross" and I can assure anyone and everyone reading this that the symbol was adopted as a reminder to the black population of who was in charge and what fate awaited any black who got uppity. That others now claim it as a symbol of southern pride is either total and complete ignorance of the facts or hypocrisy.

Just to avoid claims to the otherwise I'll now present the real facts about the flag:

1) It isn't the "Stars and Bars." That actually refers to the first official flag of the CSA which bears no resemblance at all to the one presently referred to that way.

2) The only possible use by the CSA of the rectangular flag with that design was on Confederate ships and even then the color scheme was different. The only flag with the right colors and design was the Confederate Battle Flag which was square. The flag now used is strictly a 20th century invention.

3) South Carolina started flying the flag over the Capitol building in 1962 and Georgia added it to their flag in 1956 both of which was during the early days of the Civil Rights movement and was pretty clearly in response to it.

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 11:24:39 AM

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Excellent Answer DomKen. Thank you.

Regards, MissSCD

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