humiliation vs degredation and aftercare

humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (Full Version)

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chellekitty -> humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 6:18:49 PM)
i started to respond to another thread but it developed into something that i feel very strongly about and didn't want it to be lost there...this is in response to this thread and i mention a post on page 2 http://www.collarchat.com/m_1294776/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm we hear about "how to play" all the time, but aftercare is given very little consideration...if degredation is used in a scene/play/whatever i believe that aftercare is very important for the very reason that Steve mentioned....its not how how you truly feel about them.. now...i changed some words around, because i make a distinction between degredation and humiliation...these are my definitions only, after years of developing them so, take them for what you will...humiliation is by definition to be made humble and humble means to not feel better or more important than others so basically humiliation is being made to feel my place...and after all that degredation is being made to feel less than my place... examples... humiliation: growling "do you want more, My whore?" as he has his boot on the back of my neck ...and then continues to beat on me... degredation: sneers "you don't deserve more, you whore" as he has his boot on the back of my neck... and then continues to beat on me... now...in both cases, he's talking to me...he says almost the same thing and does the same thing but each situation would have a very different response from me... example 1 - would make me all warm and fuzzy.... example 2 - would make me feel alone and worthless which leads me to aftecare...i believe most who have half a brain can figure out how to deal with a sub coming out of subspace or someone coming down from an endorphin high or do the searches on the boards to find where it's been addressed so...here's my questions...i won't give you all the answers [:D] Leaving out the physical interaction, would you find after care necessary in example 1? what kind of after care? what about example 2? what kind? do you have an experience you want to share where aftercare was essential after humiliation or degredation happened in a scene or play? do you have an experience you want to share where aftercare was essential but NOT given after humiliation or degredation happend in a scene or play? further thoughts on aftercare after humiliation or degredation in a scene or play? chelle

RRafe -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 6:36:03 PM)
Make sure that she knows beyond doubt that is was a role play-not how you really feel. Even if you have to debase YOURSELF to make that happen.

onmykneesb4Him -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 6:56:56 PM)
i absolutely need aftercare in either case- humiliation or degradation. Even though during play, i love it. If He's flogging me repeatedly and telling me i deserve it because i'm a nasty little slut, i couldn't be more turned on or off in subspace. But after i come back to the real world, i need to hear that He loves me. We don't have to go into a big deal conversation about specific things, i just need that simple reassurance- maybe repeated several times. Cuddling and all that to go along with it. If i don't get that, i drop. Not fun at all.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 7:07:22 PM)
For me aftercare has very little to do with whatever particular TYPE of play is going on, and much more with how intense the energy flow was going and how drained I feel afterwards. Thus, I can feel some need for aftercare after just an hour of bondage, and not feel any need for aftercare after a two day rape scene. In the cases I do need aftercare, I find hot showers, good food, rest, snuggling, and general recuperation doing nice things I enjoy and feel reconnected to the world do me the most good. While being around someone I enjoy company with is best, I've taught myself to handle it on my own as well.

PsyVamp -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 7:10:29 PM)
Brings to mind a friend of mine...he is the best one I know at aftercare, very attentive and affectionate and brings everything back down to silliness, even when the scene has no clear "top/bottom" roles (yes, they do exist). I can just see him in example 1) sitting with her on his lap or between his legs, keeping the conversation light while ascertaining her state of mind. I'm not sure he's capable of example 2. Okay, maybe anyone is and lets say he is. He would be the one holding her and petting her and telling her how wonderful he thought she was... once they parted, he would call her later to see if she were alright and make sure to keep in contact until their next meeting. We talk all the time and I know what he doesn't like when he bottoms, I know the things important to him. Most of the better things I do are because of how I listen to him and I hear what he says. I have gained more experience in aftercare and tenderness just by being his friend. And yes, in role reversal, if I am doing that to some guy, I would treat him the same way my friend would.... Mindful of lingering impressions and the fact that as humans, we tend not to hear what other people mean (never mind someone coming down off the endorphins) Hope this helps. ~Psy (currently eyeing her pet, who still has his hair down..sighs) edited to say, I would never do that to just "some" guy, lol - it would have to be someone I knew... and wanted.

arayofsunshine55 -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 7:11:36 PM)
Well aftercare is not everyone's cup of tea. We don't do any "degrading" stuff which isn't actually real -- like scat. And through it all I am always aware of how much he loves me. So I don't need to be reminded afterward. When he calls me nigger, I don't need aftercare. It's a term of endearment. So I think it depends on the people. It depends on the activities. What we do throughout it all is love each other. And we are big cuddle bunnies. I don't consider that aftercare since we do it all the time. And we both crave and love it.

chellekitty -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 7:17:38 PM)
right....thanks for bringing that up....part of negotiations (assuming this is the first time you are playing or you only play with this person once in a while or otherwise haven't learned what the needs are) is to let the Top know your aftercare needs...some people need lots....others just want to be left alone....and there is plenty of room in the middle for everyone...

arayofsunshine55 -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 7:20:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty right....thanks for bringing that up....part of negotiations (assuming this is the first time you are playing or you only play with this person once in a while or otherwise haven't learned what the needs are) is to let the Top know your aftercare needs...some people need lots....others just want to be left alone.... Yes. Also I cannot imagine myself doing this kind of stuff with someone I don't know. Who doesn't know me. With whom I have not developed a rapport over time. Wouldn't even desire to. For me it is amazingly intimate.

chellekitty -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 7:23:02 PM)
its fun for me...kind of like dancing with different guys at a club....or fucking different guys at a swingers club....not for everyone....but i like it....

Cyntilating -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 8:10:02 PM)
Chellekitty I make and feel a distinction between humiliation and degradation also.. and as I posted on the other thread > our relationship doesnt involve any degradation. but I will comment on the questions you ask, regarding humiliation or humiliating feelings in my actions and reactions.. Leaving out the physical interaction, would you find after care necessary in example 1? yes..afterward, it dawns on me! feelings set in of what I must have looked like, sounded like, natural bodily reactions and functions that happen even when you do not want them to.....what did he feel, see and think as he watched me react and respond?................... what kind of after care? His words of reassurance. and most importantly making me look directly into his eyes as he tells me of the strength he saw..the devotion.... When I know that what happened only made him feel pride and is seen as a strength in me, that what he did was NOT punishment or anger at me and that he is so pleased & proud that I would so willingly surrender to all that he put upon me>>> thats all I need to hear. His use of the endearment "Mine or My cyn" as he holds me close to quiet me, seems to always be a part of the aftercare during times where feelings of humiliation is a probability. that affirms in me my unique place in his life and in his heart. these things I do, I would do for and with no one else .....and he knows it..and he makes sure I feel the pride in that ..not the shame or the humiliation of the action/play that he chose to do. and usually before its time for me to leave> he makes an extra effort to have us talk about daily life stuff....jobs..responsibilities etc ..and makes ME do alot of that talking...so my head is back in the right place before I leave. edited : because I talk too much

breatheasone -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 8:30:42 PM)
I feel like I need after care period...Master has not humiliated me or anything like that...but if He did I suppose we would talk about it 1st.

DarkDaddyZ -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/23/2007 9:02:51 PM)
I can only answer maybe. Sometimes me and my partner(s) need aftercare from a simple OTK, other times a brutal rape play scene needs none, it just really depends.

MaamJay -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/24/2007 1:18:04 AM)
I'm big on both giving and receiving aftercare, no matter what the play activities were. Cuddling, reassurance, love and other signs of affection as well as practical needs such as a blanket, water, food. Master and i don't really go in for humiliation or degradation with that motivation in mind. That said, there are some activities that have made me feel very humbled, very much aware of my place at His feet, and very much at peace with that. Also there are some things i willingly do that others might consider degrading ... such as having Him pee on me or my asking Him permission to go pee, leaving the toilet door open etc. Doesn't feel degrading to me ... darn right handy actually as Master now has wonderful control over my ageing errant bladder! Just one word from Him and leaks stop dead! O/ours is very much a loving relationship aimed at building each other up, so degradation in the sense of tearing someone down so that they are lower than low isn't part of O/our repertoire, just doesn't turn U/us on (though W/we can see how others might find it exciting in scenes, no judgements here). As a Domme I don't get into the "cold bitch namecalling" type of thing at all ... it just doesn't feel natural to Me to bark "On your knees you pathetic little worm" ... I think I'd crack up laughing! I'd rather say "Kneel please pet" ... achieves the same result and feels a lot better to Me! One thing I have found, is that everyone I have talked to has had entirely different ideas as to what constitutes humiliation and degradation ... what one finds humiliating another doesn't. So it's VERY important to discuss this in an ongoing way ... don't assume you covered all bases in the first negotiations. It's quite possible to make a seemingly simple request and have a sub baulk because "oh that's so humiliating!" and the Dom/me's left with their jaw dropped in amazement! On a final note, I agree that if a sub knows the sort and how much aftercare works for them it's good to let the Dominant know ... that said, the Dominant may also have a strong NEED to provide aftercare and it's not fair if the subby who professes not to need any does a bunk out the door leaving the Dominant bereft! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

slaveluci -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/24/2007 2:52:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: arayofsunshine55 Well aftercare is not everyone's cup of tea. We don't do any "degrading" stuff which isn't actually real -- like scat. And through it all I am always aware of how much he loves me. So I don't need to be reminded afterward......What we do throughout it all is love each other. And we are big cuddle bunnies. I don't consider that aftercare since we do it all the time. And we both crave and love it Ditto! I do enjoy "aftercare" (as I perceive it) but, as you say, that type of love and comfort is most always present anyway so I don't need it any more specifically following certain activities. It's so true, as LA said, that feeling the need for it doesn't always happen like I'd think it should. I've been through some rough, very painful activities and not really felt I needed it and then, sometimes, I need more love and care when no real pain has been endured. Hard to predict when it'll be most craved so, like you, I'm glad I have that love and cuddling always available[:)]..............luci

SirCache -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/24/2007 6:16:32 AM)
My current partner requires a lot of aftercare--per her background there are reasons why she needs that reassurance and touch so that as she comes down she feels appreciated and adored. However, she loves the actual humiliation and degradation when it's happening, she just afraid that if left alone afterwards that it may have been real. So, she is comforted for however long it takes for her to regain her sense of self and continue with the day.

CreativeDominant -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/24/2007 7:43:47 AM)
I love humiliation play when it works to emphasize the dynamic and to make the submissive hot and craving and needy of more. I make a distinction between humiliation...that which makes her feel sexually wanted and puts her in submissive mindset and, for whatever reason, increases her feelings of worth...vs degradation...that which makes her feel looked down-upon, resentful, and decreases her feelings of worth. There are all kinds of levels of humiliation and degradation...one girl's love of the term "slut" and the sexual humiliation feelings that go with it are another girl's HATE of the term "slut" and all the negatives it implies and the feelings of degradation and insult that come with it. For yet another girl, slut is like a bit of fluff thrown at the wall of her emotions and sexuality, whereas something along the lines of "You cocksucking, fuck-every-guy-in-the-place whore...you love being watched as you perform just like a fucking bitch dog in heat, don't you" begins to warm her up. I do use aftercare...and almost feel a need of it myself after any intense scene. But as some have noted, the intensity of the scene is dependent upon many factors.

chellekitty -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/24/2007 7:53:41 AM)
ok so a few Dominants have brought that up...that they themselves feel a need to "give" aftercare (i say give, because thats how i see it, but it may be more of a sharring than a giving and taking, i'm not sure)....what happens when the Dom needs it and the sub just leaves? are Doms allowed to throw hissy fits or cry? lol...not trying to be a smart ass, i genuinely don't know what they do....never been in that position

junecleaver -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/24/2007 8:51:02 AM)
For me, a 'mental warm up' is far more necessary than a certain type of aftercare. To call me a whore and piss on me right off the bat would leave me confused and withdrawn. There needs to be some mental build up. Also, I only get to see my Dominant on the weekends. Both of us need to reconnect and enjoy each other before we start any kind of play. In some instances, I think my Dominant needs more aftercare than I do when it comes to humiliation stuff. He needs to cuddle me and know for sure that he hasn't broken me and that I understand he loves me.

toservez -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/24/2007 8:53:54 AM)
I am big into humiliation and degradation and also I just loved your personal definitions on the difference between the two. I think I will be stealing them. ;) For me there is basic aftercare that may or may not be required in a scene that is really independent of what types of kink to me is just a basic cuddle time thing. For aftercare specifically done in the humiliation or degradation I have found basically in the beginning of a relationship or something new out of the blue in this type of play I require reassurance after that my Master still cares for me, respects me and enjoyed the experience. I can deal with myself perfectly fine but need to know he is ok with what went on. When in a relationship after awhile though I rarely need any serious aftercare in play, a simple smile and hug will do. I have plenty of knowledge and feelings that it was done for his pleasure and he respects me.

SubJordanTyler -> RE: humiliation vs degredation and aftercare (9/24/2007 9:25:15 AM)
I'm very much into humiliation and degredation, but I need aftercare after both. Humiliation can be when I'm taken with a strap-on in front of others and am told to take it like a little bitch - and talked down to while it's going on. For me that's more humiliating than anything else. But it's also arousing. Degredation can be when I'm urinated on in front of others or be forced to service many others like a whore. It can make me feel worthless to be treated like trash, but it's also arousing. So as long as I'm aroused, no matter what the scene is like, I'm going to need some sort of aftercare when it's over.

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