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As to the “why” you keep asking, I would suggest that, historically, women have been attracted to strong, male providers, from cave times onwards. The fact that these desires are somewhat frowned upon by society these days as a sign of an under-evolved mind, as if they were something bad, only increases their appeal to some women.

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin



Men can produce sperm while women cannot.

However, women can produce babies and breast milk where men cannot.

Given a comparison of oozing sperm out of my body versus giving birth to an eight pound baby -and- producing enough food to keep the baby alive for months ...

... I'd have to say pride in something purely masculine is a bit over-rated when compared to the pride that can be felt for something which is purely feminine

Perhaps that is why machismo is so exaggerated.

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ORIGINAL: camille65

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ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
That's a staggeringly over-simplified series of statements.  Those concerning the Gulf conflict/Iraq are also clearly incorrect, as the situation is vastly more complex than the one you paint, and the pro-wrestling references are highly questionable in this context; a single, heavily-caricatured and over-inflated sub-class does not prove a global theory.

As to the original point, I think it depends entirely how you frame a definition of “machismo”; for some it’s merely a pride in “maleness”, without much of the more dubious elements you’re trying to tack onto it.  For others, it’s become (through misuse of the word and context) the worst excesses of the destructive male forces.  Personally, I’ve found that those who adopt a posture of machismo tend to be fools or charlatans, whereas those who merely take a simple pride in their own abilities, and often those of others, are positive forces in life.

As to the “why” you keep asking, I would suggest that, historically, women have been attracted to strong, male providers, from cave times onwards.  The fact that these desires are somewhat frowned upon by society these days as a sign of an under-evolved mind, as if they were something bad, only increases their appeal to some women.  It’s Newtonian; you push society in one direction here, an equal and opposite reaction takes place there.

Some women are into strong-minded, direct, “male” men.  Some aren’t.  T’was ever thus, and forever will be.  And a jolly good thing too, say I.

“Machismo; helping dominant blokes get laid since 15,000 BC.”
 

 Uhhuh to what I bolded. Bob I think that you are taking one and only one view as to what machismo means, and you have received a whole lotta answers as to why women tend to like a man who has machismo because they areconfident within themselves, andconfident in their place in society.

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ORIGINAL: breatheasone

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As to the “why” you keep asking, I would suggest that, historically, women have been attracted to strong, male providers, from cave times onwards. The fact that these desires are somewhat frowned upon by society these days as a sign of an under-evolved mind, as if they were something bad, only increases their appeal to some women.

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ORIGINAL: Aileen68

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

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ORIGINAL: Aileen68

You are assuming that men who display their machismo are unintelligent and violent.  I've found this to not be the case.

Ah, but you are a lady and I am a man.

As part of my studies on machismo I used to watch pro wrestling.

Yes it is an act, but a very popular act as one can see if one watches the audience.

Pro wrestling is all about machismo. The stereotyped displays are, to me, "unintelligent and violent".

If that example seems weak, consider the displays of machismo in sports, politics, entertainment.

They all appeal to the less intelligent and those eager for violence, or so it seems to me.

Sad to say, but in my opinion the war in Iraq is all about machismo: Bush II had to prove he's a better man than Bush I.

Your Politics May Vary

All of the examples you gave are to some extent actors...I'm talking more in terms of the everyday guy who has these traits not someone whos paycheck revolves around how manly or charismatic they are. 

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I have a question for you Bob.  In your example, is the man who is bellowing and thumping his chest exhibiting Machismo, while the man who accepts the challenge with the quirk of an eyebrow not?  Or do you see both men, in the arena, as examples of Machismo? 

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

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ORIGINAL: Aileen68

You are assuming that men who display their machismo are unintelligent and violent.  I've found this to not be the case.

Ah, but you are a lady and I am a man.

As part of my studies on machismo I used to watch pro wrestling.

Yes it is an act, but a very popular act as one can see if one watches the audience.

Pro wrestling is all about machismo. The stereotyped displays are, to me, "unintelligent and violent".

If that example seems weak, consider the displays of machismo in sports, politics, entertainment.

They all appeal to the less intelligent and those eager for violence, or so it seems to me.

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Sad to say, but in my opinion the war in Iraq is all about machismo: Bush II had to prove he's a better man than Bush I.

Your Politics May Vary

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ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

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I have a question for you Bob.  In your example, is the man who is bellowing and thumping his chest exhibiting Machismo, while the man who accepts the challenge with the quirk of an eyebrow not?  Or do you see both men, in the arena, as examples of Machismo? 

I'm seriously interested in your answer to this Bob.  I think it might help clarify your 'concept' of Machismo and why a woman's perspective continues to elude you.

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ORIGINAL: velvetears

i don't see machismo as being limited to the physical.  It's exaggerating the masculine - there are plenty of men who like to parade their intelligence in a very machismo way - they will flex their intellect to the point they want to decimate others - they will debate and argue to the death.  i see men who agressively debate or argue  the same as a men who chest thump - both are displaying machismo.

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ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Since wrestling was dragged into this, it reminds me of something that happened to me.  I had gone out dancing with a male co-worker.  While we were out on the dance floor, a team of pro wrestlers came into the club.  One of them made it out onto the dance floor and tapped my co-worker/dance partner on the shoulder and asked, "Is she with you?"  My 'friend' threw up his hands and promptly said, "not anymore" and actually left me there staring up at this huge caricature of manliness who had a rather amused expression on his face. 

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Now, on topic.  It is not the presence of machismo per se, that I find attractive or repulsive.  It is how that confidence (exaggerated or otherwise) is expressed.  Some men, even though they don't perceive themselves as macho, can convey exactly that persona by simply digging in their heels and refusing to be moved - no matter what. 

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I have a question for you Bob.  In your example, is the man who is bellowing and thumping his chest exhibiting Machismo, while the man who accepts the challenge with the quirk of an eyebrow not? 

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ORIGINAL: Aileen68

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ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

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I have a question for you Bob.  In your example, is the man who is bellowing and thumping his chest exhibiting Machismo, while the man who accepts the challenge with the quirk of an eyebrow not?  Or do you see both men, in the arena, as examples of Machismo? 

I'm seriously interested in your answer to this Bob.  I think it might help clarify your 'concept' of Machismo and why a woman's perspective continues to elude you.

The way it was worded made it obvious that bob felt that he was the quiet one who dealt with  things by raising his eyebrow...that he was the one who was more evolved and advanced and refined and not some big lug.  It has become a "my way is better than your way" thread under the guise of he's trying to understand why...once again.

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ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

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ORIGINAL: Aileen68

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ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

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I have a question for you Bob.  In your example, is the man who is bellowing and thumping his chest exhibiting Machismo, while the man who accepts the challenge with the quirk of an eyebrow not?  Or do you see both men, in the arena, as examples of Machismo? 

I'm seriously interested in your answer to this Bob.  I think it might help clarify your 'concept' of Machismo and why a woman's perspective continues to elude you.

The way it was worded made it obvious that bob felt that he was the quiet one who dealt with  things by raising his eyebrow...that he was the one who was more evolved and advanced and refined and not some big lug.  It has become a "my way is better than your way" thread under the guise of he's trying to understand why...once again.

It seemed pretty obvious to me, as well.  I wanted him to clarify it, so that maybe he could see that the smaller, quieter less assuming guy was STILL posturing - after his own fashion - in the arena.  From a woman's perspective, the 'macho' man isn't the biggest and loudest nor the cocky and arrogant smaller guy, but the one who kicks ass in the arena and drags home the prize by her hair. (teasing here mostly)