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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/14/2007 6:48:55 AM

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My thoughts on drugs.

To begin, i do not smoke pot nor do i use any type of recreational drugs, for that matter in the past year i have probably only had 9 or 10 alcoholic drinks of any type.

I am prescribed 2 kinds of narcotic pain killers due to having RA and i use an 1/8 to a 1/4 of a pill occasionally when i am having a horrible day pain wise, compared to the 2 pills of one type and up to 8 pills of the other type i can take.

So in no way could i be considered a person who uses or abuses any substance legal or not.

I think they ought to legalize drugs, all drugs. Sell them in state controlled drug stores the way some states have state controlled liquor stores. Make them reasonably inexpensive as well.

This will sound harsh but eventually the junkies will OD. Is that an ignorant way for me to feel? Possibly but then again they made that choice for themselves. Yes, i do realize there are some great human beings who are drug addicts, some of the most brilliant writers the world will ever read did heroin or cocaine.

Just as they decided to become addicts they can decide for themselves whether or not to stop.

The part time or weekend user will not be blowing his paycheck just to party on Friday night.

The biggest plus though would be all the billions of dollars we spend on law enforcement, prisons, rehabs, etc. Think of all the crime it would stop, nobody would have to rob a house, mug somebody or steal your car radio to get a fix.

No more international drug cartels operating here in the USA. Think of all the lives that would save.

All that money could go into heath care for the working class and other under insured folks. It could go into education or providing decent food in our school system, or to house the homeless.

< Message edited by Twicehappy2x -- 10/14/2007 6:49:53 AM >

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/14/2007 7:11:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

I think they ought to legalize drugs, all drugs. Sell them in state controlled drug stores the way some states have state controlled liquor stores. Make them reasonably inexpensive as well.

This will sound harsh but eventually the junkies will OD. Is that an ignorant way for me to feel? Possibly but then again they made that choice for themselves. Yes, i do realize there are some great human beings who are drug addicts, some of the most brilliant writers the world will ever read did heroin or cocaine.

Just as they decided to become addicts they can decide for themselves whether or not to stop.

The part time or weekend user will not be blowing his paycheck just to party on Friday night.

The biggest plus though would be all the billions of dollars we spend on law enforcement, prisons, rehabs, etc. Think of all the crime it would stop, nobody would have to rob a house, mug somebody or steal your car radio to get a fix.

No more international drug cartels operating here in the USA. Think of all the lives that would save.

All that money could go into heath care for the working class and other under insured folks. It could go into education or providing decent food in our school system, or to house the homeless.

I agree with all of this,
I see a lot of children with AFS and a lot of drug indused issues, Those numbers would go up at first but in future generations should go down simply because the addicts would die off and not have more babies lol but its also a lil harsh

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 1:22:21 AM

Sunao

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Well hopefully the world will come to its sences. Glad to hear all of your replys on the issue.

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 1:28:36 AM

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RA = rumatori arhtritus.

a VERY painfull ailment.

HUGS!

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 3:01:47 AM

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Twicehappy..... Your post does contain some good points, although i feel its not as simple as it sounds. Firstly, not all users OD, many addicts here in the Uk are in there 40s and even older, and have been using for 25 years plus. What happens when users cant afford shop prices ? Will they go and rob people to pay for the next fix ? The price here for most drugs is fairly cheap already, making them cheaper, and freely available would induce more people to try it. As for users not blowing there pay check on a friday, many already do just that, whether its for drugs or alcohol.

I think there should be more drugs awareness campaigns in school, and better treatment available. We already pay for prisons, so treatment instead would surely be a better way forward.

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 3:20:40 AM

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I feel that providing a society where life isnt so shit for so many that alcohol and drugs are the most convenient way to block it all out, would be a better way.

E

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 3:21:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Firstly, not all users OD, many addicts here in the Uk are in there 40s and even older, and have been using for 25 years plus.

The long term users while still addicts obviously are controlling their drug use instead of their drug use controlling them.

quote:

What happens when users cant afford shop prices ? Will they go and rob people to pay for the next fix ?

Isn't this what they already do?

quote:

The price here for most drugs is fairly cheap already, making them cheaper, and freely available would induce more people to try it.

Evidently here in the USA some junkies spend up wards of 300 hundred dollars a day to get their fix. If it only cost them 10 or 20 dollars a day most of them would not be committing so many crimes to pay for their dope.

Drugs are already freely available. Perhaps if it was not the cool thing to do so many youngsters would not try it.

quote:

I think there should be more drugs awareness campaigns in school, and better treatment available. We already pay for prisons, so treatment instead would surely be a better way forward.

We already have tons of school programs, treatment centers by the score, is it working? Well?

Think of how much better those programs would be if even a small portion of what we spend on the DEA went into those programs.

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 3:51:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I feel that providing a society where life isnt so shit for so many that alcohol and drugs are the most convenient way to block it all out, would be a better way.

This is a tough one LadyE. It is true that many are raised in poor environments with little or no encouragement to do better.

Yet it is also true that in this day and age there are very few who are not aware that a better life is out there.

It is also true that a huge group of drug addicts come from middle and upper class families.

Again harsh, but it is up to the individual (at least here in the USA) to decide what type of life they want and strive for it to the best of their ability.

Folks need to stop blaming their parents, their neighborhood, the government, etc..., and do something for themselves. Take responsibility for what they want their life to be and go after it.

I came from a poor family, i was not aware we were poor, we always had enough to eat and clothes to wear. There were 13 kids, 2 women and one male in two bedroom house, we kept our clothes in crab baskets. And 6 kids and another woman in a different house.

No we are not Mormon.

My dad was uneducated, he worked as a stevedore. My moms worked as well. We had a huge garden, we fished and crabbed, we sold some of our catch all summer long, we sold quarts of homemade soup in the fall.

Yet 4 of my brothers own a repair business together, i owned a farm, 1 of my sisters is a vice president in a bank, several are secretaries, a pair of brothers own a cabinet making shop. All are relatively successful, own their own homes and are now putting their kids through college, same as i did mine.

We all saw there was a better way and we reached for it. Was it easy? Hell no!

I worked as stripper until i put myself through nursing school. You think there were not all types of drugs available? Of course there were. I made a choice not to do them. I saved my money and shopped at second hand stores to buy that farm. My brothers put in 16 hour days for years to pay off their businesses.

The point is, we did it. Anybody can, it just depends on the effort they put into it.

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 3:55:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunao

...I've been curious though as to why marijuana is considered a deadly drug?...

hemp prohibition goes back a ways.....consider the actions of Harry J. Anslinger, director of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics in 1937, who read into U.S. Congressional testimony(without objection) stories about "coloreds" with big lips, luring white women with jazz music and marijuana. Virtually all timber, paper and large newspaper holding companies--stood to lose billions of dollars and perhaps go bankrupt if hemp wasn't outlawed. William Hearst knew it and did much to fuel negative attitudes towards marijuana/hemp in his publications.

Coincidentally, in 1937, DuPont had just patented the process for making plastics from oil and coal, as well as a new sulfate/sulfite process for making paper from wood pulp. According to DuPont's own historians, these processes accounted for 80% of all of the company's railroad carloadings over the next 60 years.

it is this slave's opinion that the alcohol companies are the least of those worried, it is the shareholders of pharmeceutical companies & the companies that use the dirtiest, most environmentally abusive ways to make energy and products(by using trees, for example), the companies that proclaim they "protect and serve" that incarcerate and fine-collect from decent folk who aren't hurting themselves or anyone else for that matter and let's not forget all those self-righteous folks who have no problem denying someone else access to medicine just because it doesn't work for them personally.

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 4:09:17 AM

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I can only use my own experiences to answer. I am one of those who completely loses control of myself and my powers of reasoning if I use dope. I have been so stoned that I couldn't walk, and yet still drove home. I have also had psychotic episodes when using dope, needing hospitalisation. My life went completely down the toilet for the time I was using. I didn't eat, I didn't sleep, I didn't wash, I didn't talk and I didn't think. I had no thought of responsibility, like paying bills, doing housework, etc. I just sat and smoked all day.

After suddenly seeing myself in a mirror one day, after non stop, all day and night use for 3 months, I realised I didn't recognise myself and knew that I was probably going to die soon. I haven't touched it since.

I realise my case is extreme, but I am not the only person in the world who has really buggered themselves up with dope. It isn't harmless for everyone.

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 5:11:57 AM

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Thank you for that dose of reality Miss Magnolia about drug use - most people talk about it as being harmless and for some it's not. i personally wouldn't like playing russian roulette with my life.

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 5:43:21 AM

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Hi Twice

I do actually agree with you on what you posted in reply to me, you know?

But its not as simple as saying that its the addicts' fault for not trying - which you didnt say I know, but is what I read as the precis if I'm to be harsh! I live surrounded by these people - alcohol addicts and drug addicts, and yes at first sight I think "wasters, every one of them".

Yet having been introduced to quite a few now, and hearing their stories, I wonder at whether many of us would have not incurred some sort of substance abuse problem, given what they have been through and the state of their lives at quite young ages? It always seems to stem from abusive family relationships - ranging from the active (violence, sexual abuse and the like) through to the passive (parents who simply dont care, having given up on life already), combined with the lack of aspiration to escape such a life through effort (hardly surprising given such an environment to grow up in). A world of abuse and suffering being what these people experience, with no idea of anything else, explains fully to me why they end up as they do.

But then, what are we to do about it, unless heavy handed we decide who can and cannot breed, thereby removing the next generation of potential problem addicts? Unless we heavy handed, intervene in family life to an extent which would be undesireable in most cases?

The answer for me lies in psychological services to help people with overcoming the issues they face in better ways - but for that to work means removing the stigma over mental health, specifically avoiding drug treatments, and most importantly providing an environment where success can be achieved through effort - which leads back into the politics of exporting jobs for the 30% of our population unable to do anything more skilled; cheap imports are not as cheap as we think.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 6:13:17 AM

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Twicehappy i will answer your points one by one.

quote:

The long term users while still addicts obviously are controlling their drug use instead of their drug use controlling them.

Managing the intake doesnt cure the addiction. My point is that they can take drugs for years and not OD

quote:

What happens when users cant afford shop prices ? Will they go and rob people to pay for the next fix ?
Isn't this what they already do?

Your reply in black type.

Exactly my point, anything other than free drugs , and addicts will still need to find a way to pay for them. Providing they dont already have the means.

quote:

Evidently here in the USA some junkies spend up wards of 300 hundred dollars a day to get their fix. If it only cost them 10 or 20 dollars a day most of them would not be committing so many crimes to pay for their dope.

Drugs are already freely available. Perhaps if it was not the cool thing to do so many youngsters would not try it.

As i said, street prices are already low, are you suggesting the drugs are made available to anyone who wants them, or just addicts. The reason i am asking is if its just addicts then dealers will still have a market. Any who is curious, and anyone who wishes to remain anonymous will still use a dealer.

quote:

We already have tons of school programs, treatment centers by the score, is it working? Well?

Think of how much better those programs would be if even a small portion of what we spend on the DEA went into those programs.

Well what ? I already said treatment would be a better way forward. If the current system isnt working it needs to be improved.
Part of the problem is that a large proportion of society find it acceptable, all the time thats happening things wont change.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 10/15/2007 6:16:04 AM >

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 6:28:08 AM

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The point about treating people and treatment programmes is that the people have to be willing to take treatment, and the facilties have to be provided for treatment.

I'm sure I recall that there are only 10 beds in the whole of the UK for treating alcohol addiction. The health service is already stretched every which way and treating addiction - along with other "moral faults" (as they are still seen) such as mental health treatments are always the first to be cut.

And whilst every addict I know would rather be free of their addiction - those I know who have broken free usually relapse within weeks when the reality of their lives comes into clearer focus. We cant expect to condemn people to no hope and also expect them to like it.

E

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 6:56:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Thank you for that dose of reality Miss Magnolia about drug use - most people talk about it as being harmless and for some it's not. i personally wouldn't like playing russian roulette with my life.

this slave interpreted it as an excerpt of Miss Magnolia's reality about her experiences with drug ab-use, not use...nor as anecdotal evidence of the possible "fatal" implications(russian roulette?) of using a drug that many others find not only harmless, but beneficial.
to date...while there are those who report negative experiences or side-effects, as with any other medication/drug there have been no fatalities attributed to either accidental or purposeful overdosing using marijuana.

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 6:59:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Most of the pot isn't pure anymore - pcp is added. Each time my friend is tested she came up with pcp in her blood work urine. You never know whats in the shit you are buying on the streets.

Um.... Ever consider that your friend is a lying junkie?

And exactly what circumstances lead the these frequent blood and urine screens?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/15/2007 7:00:33 AM >

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 7:02:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff

I honestly dont see why its illegal these days either. As long as your not driving under the influence, its harmless. people dont go out and kill someone while theyre on pot.

I would suspect that a fair, statistical sampling show that people driving under the influence of weed are in fact SAFER than the general population. Of course, no one should operate ANY heavy machinery when they're less than 100%. I'm just advancing a hypothesis.

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 7:05:25 AM

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quote:

This will sound harsh but eventually the junkies will OD.

"Think of it as Evolution in Action"

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 7:50:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

But its not as simple as saying that its the addicts' fault for not trying

While (as you stated, thank you) i did not say that, you are correct, i implied it.

At some point in time they need to choose not to be an addict anymore. There are too many programs out there to help them get off of drugs, alcohol, what have you. It is up to each individual to decide whether or not to quit. Whether or not to seek help.

Like i said earlier, if we used just a little bit of the money we spend on enforcing drug laws on better programs, they could be so much better than they are now.

quote:

A world of abuse and suffering being what these people experience, with no idea of anything else, explains fully to me why they end up as they do.

That these people, some of them at any rate, have suffered i do not dispute. That they have no idea it can be any different, i do. With todays technology, television, radio, internet access even the destitute can use at any public library, if anybody takes the time to look, they can see there is a better way out there.

quote:

combined with the lack of aspiration to escape such a life through effort (hardly surprising given such an environment to grow up in

This is the meat of the matter "a lack of aspiration". Every human being has to desire and actively pursue any change they want to make in their life. It is not that the opportunity is not out there, if you work at it hard enough. It is that it is "too hard" for some.

The choice to do that hard work, physically, emotionally and spiritually is again, one each individual must make. If they choose the easy way out, that is up to them.

quote:

I wonder at whether many of us would have not incurred some sort of substance abuse problem, given what they have been through and the state of their lives at quite young ages? It always seems to stem from abusive family relationships - ranging from the active (violence, sexual abuse and the like) through to the passive (parents who simply don't care, having given up on life already).

I do not and will not accept this as an excuse from any one. You can decide to let this abuse (of any type) be your crutch, let it dictate the decline or waste of your of your life or you can use it. Let it make you stronger, learn from it, learn what not to do, what not to allow around your own life, around your own children.

My mom and my dad separated (i did have 2 other "moms" in the house). My mother married another man. I lost any and every type of virginity a child possesses before my 6th birthday. At 11 years of age i left home, pregnant with my stepfathers child.

Bikers took me in, bikers got me an abortion. A biker gave me a place to live and took care of me in exchange for childcare for his son. At 13 i became another bikers old lady. Before our second child was born he was killed.

I survived, without becoming a drug addict, ever. I became stronger, tempered by the fires of my life rather than melted by it.

I have RA, when i am in a flare sometimes i have tears running down my face with every step i take to get down the stairs. I can legally be a drug addict, hell my doctor would be over joyed if i took all the dope she gives me, she knows i do not.

I am still not a drug addict.

I made choices. Every one can make or not make the same choices i did.

I know, not everybody is that strong, again, it is up to them to chose strength over despair. Even if they lack that type of personal strength, there is help to them, but they must decide to seek it out, to take it when it is offered.

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RE: War on Drugs. - 10/15/2007 7:50:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunao

I have my own political view and such as everyone else on this site does. I've been curious though as to why marijuana is considered a deadly drug? Cigs and Alcohol are legal and from my personal experience it seems to me that both are more dangerous. What type of crazy world do I live in when dangerous things are kept legal and semi dangerous things are made illegal. I support the illegalization of all other drugs. I believe that America should be a completely sober country or let the ones that don't cause harsh health affects in the short term contrary to long term ex. lung cancer for cigs and liver failure for alcohol. You can't even OD on marijuana but I had to call the paramedics for my friend that drank to much booze. Imagine how much room would be in jails everywhere.

Its not crazy at all. Its purely business.

Like alcohol they cannot control it since people can make alcohol in their homes in a couple days per batch and get just as drunk as if they bought it. Well they have alcohol so that its taxable, but that is much harder to do with hooch.

When they have something that they cannot find a good way to tax and monopolize the only way it can be done is to make laws against it. That way the cia can via the instruments of the government wipe out all the competition and operate with impunity.

poppy fields

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