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Over population - 10/14/2007 10:50:30 PM   
Sunao


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I really doubt vertical farming is going to help over population. what about when the kids of the vertical farming generation are born? Thats double the amount if everyone has 4 kids.  Gotta find a new planet to occupy....(continues to look at mars)

Link for Vertical Farming that made me want to post this.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21154137
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RE: Over population - 10/15/2007 1:07:17 AM   
pahunkboy


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if we find life on mars- surely mars will have to join GATT, the UN, WTO, NAFTA, etc. In fact- otherwise would be protectionist!   ^ gulp ^ free trade with mars or bust!

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RE: Over population - 10/15/2007 8:26:30 AM   
Alumbrado


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Over-population is a root or contributing cause of many problems...whatever happened to ZPG?

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RE: Over population - 10/16/2007 12:14:00 PM   
Termyn8or


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Indeed what did happen to ZPG ? Touted as a needed solution back when there were about 100,000,000 fewer people in this country it seemed like a rational approach.

And it was. Now for some reason it has been abandoned, why ? I think I know why, and it ain't pretty. As always, follow the money. It boils down to this, big money sees each of us as a potential source of revenue.

So big money will countinue to build mansions on sprawling estates, as they just stick the rest of us in little boxes, caring not one iota for our quality of life.

And it seems the more well off a family is, the less kids they have. I don't mean rich, but at least having someone with a good job. At least not being on any public assistance. At least holding their own. These are the responsible people that should have kids.

I know I mentioned that we were almost dirt poor when i was a kid. But when my sister and I were concieved it was before the divorce, things were going well. Of course the divorce wrecked pretty much everything, but we still turned out alright. (relatively)

I have always made decent money, except when I was a teenager. But I declined to have kids, because I am well aware that there is more to it than just money. I could easily afford two or three if I quit partying and spending money like a drunken sailor. But there is alot of time involved. There is certain amount of time that both Parents must spend with the kids interacting with them, teaching them the proper social skills. That is what I lacked. Yes there was food on the table and books on the shelf, but I was a little asshole for quite some time.

Ironically if the human lifespan were longer it might help, with certain other qualifications. People do not mature mentally fast enough, so if puberty occurred at say age 40, people would make better decisions. The problem now is that kids are having kids. And too many of them. You need quality time with each and every one of them. Lots of it. Your influence must supercede peer and other societal influences.

And no matter how hard you try, your daughter could still show up pregnant at thirteen. In today's day and age, that is a bad thing. I didn't say that the people involved are bad, but they certainly made a mistake. Thirteen is too young. In the past when people had a farm and worked the land, perhaps thirteen was not too young, but it is now.

Now to mention one more thing, the media. Of course sex is everywhere, it sells. Sometimes it is subtle or even subliminal, but it is there. But the point is, with the morass of advertising today, what portion of it has to do with contraception ? Almost none.

I think the ZPG people should dust themselves off and start a new campign. I think they should gather up every picture they can find of babies found in dumpsters and say "This could be your child, in fact, what if it was you ? Still don't like condoms ?". The next ad could come from the projects, put a few families together in one apartment. Have a card game going on with people doing drugs and drinking. Show someone throwing up or something. Have one kid start messing around with one of the player's money and knock some of it on the floor. This one has to be a little older IMO to handle doing the scene, but have someone get on the kid's case about it. Then have the cops show u[p and bust everyone. Include the trip down to CPS. The say "Is that the life you want for your kids ? ".

Harsh ? Yes. The conditions that will occur if something is not done ? Harsher. And as put to me by a friend years ago "The wrong people are reproducing" . People run the gamut from those who literally put their daughters in chastity belts, to those who are happy to be Grandparents before they are thirty. And as nasty as it may sound, the difference is the source of the money. When you can pop out more kids and get a bigger welfare check, what is to stop you ? If I go to one of my bosses and tell him I need a raise because I have kids now I know the response I'll get. "For Pete's sake you are almost making as much as me now !". So if I have one or two, that would be where it has to stop. I would have to work more, and that would take away from that quality time.

Responsibility is the key word. Y^es I have shirked mine, I have not contributed to the gene pool, nor any would be productive members of society, perhaps leader who might find some solutions to the problems that plague humanity. But if I don't have the time to do that correctly, it would be irresponsible for me just to have a bunch of kids, and scam the government to support them whiole I dealt drugs or something for my side money.

I've known people who deliberately got divorced and put their olady on welfare to get medical care for the kids. That is something I wouldn't be proud of, but we talked about it and when I found out the reason, well, I just can't argue. It's either that or we can't afford good food, to fix the car, to make the house payment. That is another influence caused by big money.

My opinions are very strong on this subject and I am pretty much holding back, but there is one thing that will not leave my thoughts. Imagine if 90% of the people in this country, world eve, just left. Or dropped dead, whichever. That means we would have 30,000,000 in the US instead of ten times that many. Think what life would be like.

Look at most of the strife in the world. In this society people get on each others' nerves because they live too damn close together. And in the whole world in general, most wars and other skirmishes of the sort are fought either for territory or the natural resources thereon. It is only logical.

The ZPG people are needed now more than ever. I could look this up, but the population of the US was 30,000,000 in what year ? Now consider this, it had decadrupled in that time (I may have invented a word here, so what) And it is clear that this will lead to the eventual demise of the human race if the current trend continues. You see it is exponential. How many decades will it take for the world population to double this time, how many years next time, the time after that. Do we eventually get down to months at some point ?

Anyone should be able to see that this is the road to ruin.

T

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Over population - 10/16/2007 2:38:26 PM   
nyrisa


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Has anyone been following the information from CDC and WHO, among other health agencies? They are predicting a worldwide pandemic of illness in the not too distant future, probably due to a mutation of bird flu. With the ease and rapidity of world travel now, a pandemic could cross the world in just weeks. Back in the 1300's, the Black Death killed up to half of the people in Europe, and it took 4 hundred years for the population to return to pre-plague numbers.

When communities of people live too closely together, nature seems to thin the numbers down on her own.

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RE: Over population - 10/16/2007 4:45:16 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Cheerful U R lol

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RE: Over population - 10/16/2007 4:58:26 PM   
Rule


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Zero population growth is not sufficient. The population needs to be reduced drastically by birth control restrictions: no conceptions before the age of 25, only two children for natural mothers and only one child for all other women (twins excepted on condition that only one of them reproduces).
 
Four requirements are necessary to enable these birth control restrictions: 1) spiritual awareness, 2) better health care (i.e. no more cancer, heart disease and sexually transmitted diseases), 3) improved standard of living (poverty stimulates reproduction), 4) no more wars.
 
 

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RE: Over population - 10/16/2007 5:01:42 PM   
seeksfemslave


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How about a good meal of Pie in the Sky

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RE: Over population - 10/16/2007 5:15:14 PM   
Rule


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Everyone that is living in a democracy chooses their own government, do they not? They pay their taxes to their government, do they not? Simply surrender to me. Pay me your taxes. If anyone complains, then say that you have chosen me to be your government and that you paid your taxes accordingly. Any other system is not a democracy, but a scam.

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RE: Over population - 10/16/2007 6:31:41 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunao

  Gotta find a new planet to occupy....(continues to look at mars)

Link for Vertical Farming that made me want to post this.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21154137



Can't go there,we would be blamed for the melting polar ice caps.


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RE: Over population - 10/16/2007 6:35:33 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Zero population growth is not sufficient. The population needs to be reduced drastically by birth control restrictions: no conceptions before the age of 25, only two children for natural mothers and only one child for all other women (twins excepted on condition that only one of them reproduces).
 
Four requirements are necessary to enable these birth control restrictions: 1) spiritual awareness, 2) better health care (i.e. no more cancer, heart disease and sexually transmitted diseases), 3) improved standard of living (poverty stimulates reproduction), 4) no more wars.
 
 


....there's one other requirement....reproductive fascism......

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RE: Over population - 10/19/2007 11:05:30 AM   
pahunkboy


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Profits made in space are not taxable.

So-k. The taxpayer funds space exploration- then corps sell us widgets-really good ones from space- even tho we own them already. Kinda like we the public own the airwaves- yet- polictial elcetions need to pay for airwave use- in effect sold to the highest bidder- who of course is beholdent to whomever paid the frieght. ie- kick backs.

I could go for a good old fashion dechartering today!

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RE: Over population - 10/19/2007 11:25:44 AM   
Raechard


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An interesting idea but I think it is has most likely come about due to increasing land value and is merely an economic saving for the farmer. The same amount will be produced as is produced now but at a lower cost. There are only so many people that want to work the land no matter how many vertical farms are created.

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RE: Over population - 10/19/2007 1:53:45 PM   
EPGAH


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Increasing land value due to the squeeze of more and more people trying to crowd into the same area...And also the pull of diminishing oil!
Check out:
http://www.npg.org/pospapers/falsechoice.html
http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Population.html

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RE: Over population - 10/19/2007 2:10:46 PM   
subfever


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The predicted polar shift of 12/21/2012 may take care of the over-population problem. 

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RE: Over population - 10/19/2007 2:21:36 PM   
EPGAH


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LOL, I read about that too...I think it'll more likely bankrupt a few insurance companies...Or they might do the "Act of God" escape clause again?
Also, how many will humanitarian missions "rescue"?
It sounds cruel, but how dumb is it to build in a floodplain?

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RE: Over population - 10/19/2007 2:24:42 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

The predicted polar shift of 12/21/2012 may take care of the over-population problem. 


LOL Most on CM don't believe scientists who predict global warming but I bet the majority believe the Mayan prediction of the age of transition!

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RE: Over population - 10/19/2007 2:32:08 PM   
EPGAH


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When the oil supplies run out, according to their math, Earth will only be able to support 1 BILLION people...which means 6/7 of the world's population would have to die...that's not even rational, let alone humane! Talk about your Armageddon/End Of Days/Ragnarok!

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RE: Over population - 10/19/2007 2:36:17 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

When the oil supplies run out, according to their math, Earth will only be able to support 1 BILLION people...which means 6/7 of the world's population would have to die...that's not even rational, let alone humane! Talk about your Armageddon/End Of Days/Ragnarok!


I'm not sure how this is supposed to be worked but I think you are worrying too much about US over dependency on oil than world dependency. Most people in the world have little contact with oil, its a developed world depency. Mules and oxen tend to run on grass. China is already making plans for a post oil world, it is the west that has its head in the sand on this issue.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/19/2007 2:37:11 PM >


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RE: Over population - 10/19/2007 2:46:03 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

The predicted polar shift of 12/21/2012 may take care of the over-population problem. 


LOL Most on CM don't believe scientists who predict global warming but I bet the majority believe the Mayan prediction of the age of transition!


Meat, sounds like yet another group that should be wearing uniforms and beanies.
They could march in parades with the Warmers, UFO people and Trekkies.

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