RE: TPErs: is he crazy?

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RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/4/2007 8:39:09 PM

msindigomontoya

Posts: 28
Joined: 10/9/2007
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I don't think she did anything wrong, per se, but even in the midst of a scene... my answer would have been no. I bet you however, that it wouldn't have mattered what you said at all. The guy had you in a helpless position, and no matter if you had said yes or no do you honestly think it would have mattered? He would have done it anyway. Of course, this way you feel like you had something to do with it, perhaps you feel guilty. Don't, the guy is a dangerous asshole, and will not doubt end up really injuring someone someday. I'm sorry you had to go through this. The best thing to do is learn from it. Have a safe call set up on the first play date, not just the first meeting, and make sure anyone who plays with you past your level knows that other people know who he is, his phone number and where he lives. Get his license plate if possible, make sure your friends have it and make sure he knows that you will not hesitate to prosocute should he not respect your limits. Any Dom worth his salt will have no problem with this, since he won't go past them anyway.

Don't let this stop you hun, there are good people out there, that will get you what you need without endangering yourself. Hang in there.

Indigo

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/4/2007 9:05:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: msindigomontoya
Any Dom worth his salt will have no problem with this, since he won't go past them anyway.

Actually I'd have a problem with it- it shows she can't make her own choices and is thinking way too much and paranoid about the choices she does think she can make. I don't want that many people with that much information about me already with their fingers on the trigger.

I wouldn't make a sub feel BAD about wanting that from me, I'd just politely say no thanks and move on.

Call me a bad dom, I'm ok with that :)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to msindigomontoya)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/5/2007 8:13:49 PM

msindigomontoya

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Joined: 10/9/2007
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Well thats ok Lucky.. then she just would move on, and everyone would be happy, or take her chances and perhaps have the same thing happen again. I'm sure if she explained to a prospective partner what had occured before either you would be ok with it, or you would move on to someone less worried about it. The first time I played with my Top, he knew my best friend knew who he was, where he lived, where he worked, etc. As a matter of fact, he himself made sure she had that information so that I felt safe (at least in that sense, heh heh heh). I had a lot of respect for him for making sure I felt ok with everything, and if someone refused, even if it wasn't because they wanted to really hurt someone, but say they needed to be descreet for their job, or other reasons, thats ok too, let them play with someone else with no hard feelings on my part.

Indigo

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/5/2007 9:04:18 PM

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So you agree there are plenty of OTHER reasons besides "being a bad dom not worth his salt" which would motivate someone to NOT share such information at that stage?

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(in reply to msindigomontoya)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/5/2007 9:05:52 PM

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Yes please move on and never look back. I am concerned as to why you decided to play so early without knowing for sure this person was for real or not. Or worse crazy. People always show their true colors eventually when you spend longer than two weeks communicating and really finding out where they are coming from.

Welp that is my opinion on it. I am glad you said you're not distraught, but I would say your confusion- is confusing to me. Be safe...please.

(in reply to wtfcrazy)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/5/2007 9:36:44 PM

msindigomontoya

Posts: 28
Joined: 10/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

So you agree there are plenty of OTHER reasons besides "being a bad dom not worth his salt" which would motivate someone to NOT share such information at that stage?

No, I do not agree there are "plenty" of other reasons. I do agree there are other reasons, very few (Married and cheating being the most prevelant IMHO). Frankly m'dear, if you aren't gonna play safe, and you aren't gonna share your info so I can feel safe.. then yes, you aren't worth your salt to me, move along, move along.

Indigo

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/5/2007 9:38:36 PM

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Interesting perspective. How would you feel about a dom who said "You're not worth your salt to me then, move along" when he demanded certain information from a sub he was planning to meet for a date? You seem perfectly justified doing it yourself.

I myself said that I wouldn't be rude or put down the person- you seem ok with it though.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to msindigomontoya)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/5/2007 10:03:01 PM

msindigomontoya

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Joined: 10/9/2007
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Oh hun, there are tons of way to tell someone to move along without being rude.

Indigo

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/6/2007 9:13:43 PM

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LOL but apparently you don't know any which aren't condescending.

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to msindigomontoya)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/7/2007 1:34:47 PM

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It does not seem like his dom lives much in reality so to speak. By that of course I mean his perception is very off. While I do think that perhaps the addition of a safe word may have made the situation a bit different (though I put such chances in the realm of null to slim judging from what you explained about the situation). Clearly they show a difficulty in distinguishing between reality and fantasty. You said you would "speak up if something wasn't ok". He disregarded this, perhaps his brain filling in that it was okay and you were just acting. This was not the case of course.

Also while it can be pretty hot to discuss such things during a scene, I agree with the general sentiment that anyone who would take something like that out of a scene and apply that as binding outside of the play itself, is not good. Especially so soon. While it may be tempting if one really connects with someone to jump right in, it generally proves itself as a bad idea. Even in the context of TPE I don't see pushing an individuals hard limits as something to do. Then again if they weren't discussed as hard limits, theres a minor problem right there. But given the context as just a play session they should have known better. Maybe I differ in that sentiment from the majority, maybe not.

Getting that attached that early also doesn't come across as a glowing endorsement of mental health. I mean I've seen people fall madly deeply in love only knowing each other a short time. But they generally continue the relationship as normal for a while feeling each other out. They do not go and make plans for the rest of their lives and enter into very heavy situations immediately. That reeks of desperation and unhealth in the head (yeah I know that sounds awkward, but I really like the phrase :D ).

In the future I would certainly suggest using a safeword. Tends to snap people out of the moment real fast. If they don't then, well then you have a big problem. Goes along with the getting to know someone boat. I also probably wouldn't have engaged in any play on the second meeting. At least not without speaking with them for weeks and weeks.

Really my opinion sums up as they are a nutbar. Pretend they are a hot rock and drop them. I would lean towards the taking advantage, but there's just a sense of wrong about it when I read the situation, and not the same kind of wrong as just using someone. Feels different, and I usually go on hunches if I get one.

(in reply to wtfcrazy)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/7/2007 4:07:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wtfcrazy

basically, what the fuck?

ok... just based on what you shared....... and you asked the questions you are asking....

all I can say..

What the fuck????!!! I hope your questions are rhetorical!!!

_____________________________

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to wtfcrazy)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/7/2007 7:37:25 PM

msindigomontoya

Posts: 28
Joined: 10/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

LOL but apparently you don't know any which aren't condescending.

Hmm perhaps. Is there a reason I should be polite to you? You have been extremely rude to me.

You get what you give honey... so if you think I'm rude, look in the mirror..

Indigo

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/8/2007 1:12:06 AM

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Joined: 9/3/2007
From: Vancouver, BC (on the Wet Coast)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Actually I'd have a problem with it- it shows she can't make her own choices and is thinking way too much and paranoid about the choices she does think she can make.

It shows no such thing. For a submissive to take responsibility for her own safety and insist on enough information to protect herself, is a solid, pro-active and responsible choice that shows she has a healthy respect for herself and her gift of submission, even in play. It is not "paranoid" to negotiate these terms in any relationship, any more than insisting on a parachute when skydiving (an equally dangerous situation, imho).

In my opinion, a sub that does NOT make this type of choice is not thinking enough! Bdsm isn't a playground where we have to give up our logic. Setting up safe calls is not only practical - it is erotic in that it enables us to feel more safe and able to "let go" because we have that safety net.

And isn't it all about trust? Isn't that the necessary factor to feel the highs we are looking to feel?

~ cheeky
p.s. I had to read indigo's posts a few times, but didn't see her saying she would say "you aren't worth your salt" to a dom. To me it read as if that was simply a thought she had about the dom. Perhaps I missed something... seems to just be an opinion expressed in the forum, as opposed to something that she would have told a dom.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/8/2007 5:06:52 AM

msindigomontoya

Posts: 28
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline

Yes Cheeky gets it!!!

A submissive who does not make good choices to protect herself will soon find herself (or himself) in a dangerous situation unless they are very lucky. The original poster will find it doubly hard to relax now, I know I would.

Respecting yourself and taking care of yourself is your reponsiblity. Being sub doesn't mean less responsibility, IMHO.

And yes, it was just an expressed opinion Cheeky, Thanks :)

Indigo

(in reply to cheeky1)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/8/2007 9:28:10 AM

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TPE is built up over time .. lots of talking and trust .. i think if you need to ask "is he crazy" then you know your answer .. if your life is in someones hands you need to feel safe .. you didnt .. so step away .. make sure you have safe calls when meeting and other people knowing the places you will be .. but if you dont feel safe with him then you need to do whats best for you.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/8/2007 4:01:15 PM

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I guess the issue is that I don't see safecalls as actually helping at all, they only help you after something has already gone wrong and even then they are pretty weak. And if you need a "safecall" to scare away the bad guys- well you're only scaring away the obvious ones or ones like me who want someone who uses their own judgement.

I don't want to be with someone who judges a bad/useless tool to be a good one- specially to the exclusion of other important useful ones.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to gentlestarZR)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/8/2007 5:11:56 PM

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This is a very crappy situation to be in. I hope that it doesn't cause you lasting damage.

They way I see it: He asked. You said yes. He did and you said No. Both would stand likely up in court. Communication was totally lost somewhere.

Pick a safeword and use it. Yes, it teaches us to not really talk to our partners, etc. etc., but some people need something that clearly and forever means NO in order to stop. No doesn't work often because sometimes saying no is seen as fun.

Oh, and don't see him again, and don't "play along" unless it's been negotiated.

Master Fire

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(in reply to wtfcrazy)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/8/2007 8:16:43 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
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is he crazy? hmmm not sure... i think he is manipulitive and insecure bordering on criminally sadisitic.

but i have to say kudos to you, because you are not coming in here with a victim story, you are not letting this "damage" you...you are asking questions and trying to learn.

refreshing.

mistakes happen, and how we move on and learn from them not only defines who we are, but also who we can ever be.

_____________________________

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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/8/2007 8:44:11 PM

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Why not take it as a compliment that he enjoyed being with you so much that he started to think it would be nice to be in a tpe relationship with you and told you what he would like to have with you? Maybe your the one who's crazy for playing with a guy after knowingg him only 2 weeks and rejecting his suggestion to use a safe word and letting things go on for some 4 hours with someone who was making you feel freaked out?

I am in a TPE relationship with my slave. We were both looking for TPE. We didn't start out looking for playand consodering 24/7 and not mentioning tpe. We came at it from a desire for tpe and thats what we talked about, in depth, before our first meeting. When I'm llooking to play, I look for someone who is looking to play and thats what we do. Its not a matter of pushin limits to get someone to go from play to TPE. Its about being honest about what you want and finding someone who wants the same thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wtfcrazy

am i justified in thinking this dude is crazy?

we me through this site, i told him i was looking for play and would consider 24/7 (i never mentioned tpe), but not anytime soon. we met up once just to chat and he seemed normal - in fact, he turned out to be a pretty hardcore feminist, so i figured he was cool.

we decided to play on our second meeting. starting 24/7 or a tpe relationship was not mentioned as a possibility for the meeting. he said we should have a safe word, but i said i'd speak up if something wasn't ok - you know, no means no (as a feminist, i figured he'd get it and since we weren't talking about tpe it didn't seem like it'd be a problem).

the meetup started out pretty hot. and then it started getting crazy. when i was super aroused, with clamps on and not thinking straight, he tells me he wants me to be his slave, tpe and all. no limits, no safewords, he decides when the relationship is ended, i live for him for the rest of my life or until he's done with me. i'm not exaggerating. mind you, i'd known the dude for 2 weeks. i thought he was playing - i'd been with a guy who got off on talking about such things in bed but didn't actually mean them, so i played along "yes, yes, sure..."

it turns out he was serious. i'd told him ahead of time that he should go easy on one area of my body, and instead he went all out. it did not feel good and i was getting freaked out by it, so i told him pretty clearly to stop, that i wasn't enjoying it, over and over again, and he tells me i just promised to be his slave and couldn't stop him, restrains me and does it harder because i've said no. it lasted for something like 4 hours and just got worse.

i could go on, but that's the basic gist of it. i'm not distraught, just sore and confused. so i came here to ask the TPErs - and only them, cause i know how most bdsm folks would react to it. is this normal? do you just jump into tpe with someone, and when you do, do you disregard all the signals that they're not ok and that you've gone too far? i understand pushing limits, but the dude wasn't responsive at all to how much pain i was in and whether i was enjoying it. is that the distinction between tpe and 24/7? and why would someone agree to that with someone you barely know and don't have strong feelings for?

basically, what the fuck?

(in reply to wtfcrazy)

RE: TPErs: is he crazy? - 11/22/2007 3:51:30 PM

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His behavior was utterly unacceptable, and I do not place any blame on you. I think there is a certain level of intuition that a good dom should have; an innate ability to sense when something isn't right. He clearly lacks this sense.

Never become physically or intimately involved with anyone, particularly a self-proclaimed dom, without first taking time to know them. In a D/s type situation, you should be even more cautious than you are in a vanilla sexual encounter.

I enjoy certain aspects of the lifestyle, but do find that many "dominant" men are actually mentally unstable, insecure masochists who want to hurt women.

Be careful.

< Message edited by roughandtumble -- 11/22/2007 3:52:26 PM >

(in reply to NControlofU)

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