RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues

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DollMaster72 -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 5:40:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ While I know this has been brought up time and time again, I'd like to point out that there are many forms of spirituality, some co exist with religion, some don't. Some have their spirituality within a BDSM relationship and some just have by practicing the BDSM lifestyle. There are other forms as well (tantric sex etc). I hope that wasn't a hijack. If so, I apologize in advance. Z- I am curious to know what good spirituality is without religion. I know that religion has a bad name because over the centuries it has been abused over and over for political purposes. I think often the religion that people are thinking of is "religious organizations." Religion is the describing or difining of beliefs or belief system and the acting out of those spiritual beliefs. It is the fruit, the actions produced by the spiritual understanding. Where the rubber meets the road. Spirituality without religion is like a motorcycle without wheels. May sound real good but goes nowhere. So if I asked you what your spiritual beliefs are and how they function in your life, your answer would by definition, be your religion.

DollMaster72 -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 5:51:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty not sure if this is relevant or not, but when i read your last post, octavia, it reminded me of something i wrote in another thread a few weeks ago...here it is... "i lived my life following my own will for way too long, i now try to live by God's will and i have figured out that i can fuck things up in an instant just let me let myself take back my will...so how does that figure into a power exchange relationship? I look for a Dominant that aligns his will with God's will so that when i align my will with my Dominants i am aligning my will with God's...and in my order's to "protect the property at all costs" even if that means protecting it from the owner...if my Dominants will deviates from God's i will keep my will aligned with God's until my Dominants will returns to aligned with God's rather than following my Dominants personal will...because my Dominant is human...not God.... " chelle How do you know if it is you taking your will back from God, or your dominant doing that in a given situation? DM

DollMaster72 -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 5:54:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar IMHO if you put up a religious board it would be a constant flaming session with the anti religious side. Are the "anti religious" really so intolerant? Why can't they be ok with other peoples beliefs? The religious are always being told they should be tolerant of others. DM

applecandy -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 6:05:20 PM)
I'm currently in talks with my Sweetie about the possibility of getting a forum up specifically for more controversial topics relating to BDSM. It would be nice to have a much more private and tolerant outlet for queries of this type - it's difficult to find others in general that share certain beliefs, let alone adding BDSM and kink to the mix. If anyone would be interested in getting involved, this would probably be a good thread to speak up. No promises or anything yet - we're still pondering the feasibility of it.

applecandy -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 6:19:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DollMaster72 quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar IMHO if you put up a religious board it would be a constant flaming session with the anti religious side. Are the "anti religious" really so intolerant? Why can't they be ok with other peoples beliefs? The religious are always being told they should be tolerant of others. DM I think the key here is "anti" - against religion. There's a difference between people that don't find religion/spirituality important or relevant to their lives and those that insist that all religion and spiritual beliefs are 'stupid' or 'myths' or any other derogatory term. I doubt there's a quarrel here with the tolerant, non-religious or non-spiritual types - only the ones flaming.

octavia -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 6:19:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DollMaster72 How do you know if it is you taking your will back from God, or your dominant doing that in a given situation? DM Dude, would you quit hijacking my thread please.

DarkDaddyZ -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 6:21:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DollMaster72 quote: ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ While I know this has been brought up time and time again, I'd like to point out that there are many forms of spirituality, some co exist with religion, some don't. Some have their spirituality within a BDSM relationship and some just have by practicing the BDSM lifestyle. There are other forms as well (tantric sex etc). I hope that wasn't a hijack. If so, I apologize in advance. Z- I am curious to know what good spirituality is without religion. I know that religion has a bad name because over the centuries it has been abused over and over for political purposes. I think often the religion that people are thinking of is "religious organizations." Religion is the describing or difining of beliefs or belief system and the acting out of those spiritual beliefs. It is the fruit, the actions produced by the spiritual understanding. Where the rubber meets the road. Spirituality without religion is like a motorcycle without wheels. May sound real good but goes nowhere. So if I asked you what your spiritual beliefs are and how they function in your life, your answer would by definition, be your religion. Your answer might be by definition your religion but my answer would not. I am not religious. I don't like organized religion. I don't follow any organize religion and I don't like churches. My spirituality is based on agreeing with some elements of various religions including Pagan, Christian and Buddhism (Shintoism to be exact). Because I do not agree with them as separate religions and because I get a tranquility and peace within BDSM and a high from BDSM especially power exchange and it helps keep me grounded and focused it is very spiritual to me. I include some rituals that I have seen practiced by religions in some of my BDSM experiences and encounters. With these combinations my life goes pretty damn good. When I don't follow the beliefs I have within this, my life can be chaotic. So this is what my answer is based on [:)] Z-

DarkDaddyZ -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 6:23:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DollMaster72 quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar IMHO if you put up a religious board it would be a constant flaming session with the anti religious side. Are the "anti religious" really so intolerant? Why can't they be ok with other peoples beliefs? The religious are always being told they should be tolerant of others. DM Not being religious is not the same of being anti religious. But when those who are religious are not tolerant of those who aren't then it's certainly going to cause animosity. Something I hope you aren't attempting to cause (holding my tongue to not throw in a political jab LOL!)

DollMaster72 -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 7:50:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark What I would like to know is why people insist on trying to seperate mostly everything into neat little boxes. Now Gor having it's own section I can kind of understand as a few Goreans I know, do see themselves on a different place to BDSM. Poly, meh - I strain to see why a seperate section. As for the others, they may be sepetate, but they are hardly known for sticking to the 'rules' and everyone answers regardless. I am deeply spiritual. I could even be called religious. But creating more them and us scenarios? I find the thought quite tasteless. It will only get to a point where people want a 'christian' section - and then a 'Pagan' section... the list just goes on and on... the.dark. I can't really see why Gore has its own section, other than simply number of followers. I have read the books, and they were a fun read. But really to base life around some middle aged guy's pubescent fantacies loosely based on this world's anthropology, IN MY VIEW seems a bit flawed. You rightly say they see themselves in a different place. Maybe better stated a different planet. I know that my particular spiritual beliefs put me in a different place to bdsm than those that don't have a similar view. Now I am segwaying (unsure of how to spell that one) back to the intitial thread.... Here is a restatement of what I see as the question. If I have beliefs "A" is there a place that I can post a question based on "A" to other people who believe "A" and not have to debate on the merits of believing "A" in the first place? What I see the as the response is, even if you had an "A" place, people who would debate "A" will come and post anyway. There are too many letters in the alphabet for everyone to have there own place. And those of different letters don't know how to play nice together. Finally all of that is why we have the BDSM place here to start with, to have a safe place for discussion. Luckily most of the nillias don't want to step on this turf to have the debate. So on this turf, can I outline a little smaller truf, and have a safe place for discussing BDSM, and "A"? DM

DollMaster72 -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 8:01:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ quote: ORIGINAL: DollMaster72 quote: ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ While I know this has been brought up time and time again, I'd like to point out that there are many forms of spirituality, some co exist with religion, some don't. Some have their spirituality within a BDSM relationship and some just have by practicing the BDSM lifestyle. There are other forms as well (tantric sex etc). I hope that wasn't a hijack. If so, I apologize in advance. Z- I am curious to know what good spirituality is without religion. I know that religion has a bad name because over the centuries it has been abused over and over for political purposes. I think often the religion that people are thinking of is "religious organizations." Religion is the describing or difining of beliefs or belief system and the acting out of those spiritual beliefs. It is the fruit, the actions produced by the spiritual understanding. Where the rubber meets the road. Spirituality without religion is like a motorcycle without wheels. May sound real good but goes nowhere. So if I asked you what your spiritual beliefs are and how they function in your life, your answer would by definition, be your religion. Your answer might be by definition your religion but my answer would not. I am not religious. I don't like organized religion. I don't follow any organize religion and I don't like churches. My spirituality is based on agreeing with some elements of various religions including Pagan, Christian and Buddhism (Shintoism to be exact). Because I do not agree with them as separate religions and because I get a tranquility and peace within BDSM and a high from BDSM especially power exchange and it helps keep me grounded and focused it is very spiritual to me. I include some rituals that I have seen practiced by religions in some of my BDSM experiences and encounters. With these combinations my life goes pretty damn good. When I don't follow the beliefs I have within this, my life can be chaotic. So this is what my answer is based on [:)] Z- By your feedback something failed in my communication. By definition what you just told me is a begining of you describing your religion to me. Religion does not need two people, an organization, or a name. There exists a religion of Z-, beliefs you hold, and when you act on them you find peace, when you act against them you find chaos. Those actions and rituals based on your beliefs are YOUR religion. It sounds like your religion is put together from other organized religions that you find significant and helpful as a structure to base your life from. DM

chellekitty -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 8:15:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DollMaster72 quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty not sure if this is relevant or not, but when i read your last post, octavia, it reminded me of something i wrote in another thread a few weeks ago...here it is... "i lived my life following my own will for way too long, i now try to live by God's will and i have figured out that i can fuck things up in an instant just let me let myself take back my will...so how does that figure into a power exchange relationship? I look for a Dominant that aligns his will with God's will so that when i align my will with my Dominants i am aligning my will with God's...and in my order's to "protect the property at all costs" even if that means protecting it from the owner...if my Dominants will deviates from God's i will keep my will aligned with God's until my Dominants will returns to aligned with God's rather than following my Dominants personal will...because my Dominant is human...not God.... " chelle How do you know if it is you taking your will back from God, or your dominant doing that in a given situation? DM if it doesn't feel right deep in my gut and heart...i can't explain it any better than that and if you have not experienced it yourself, you may or may not understand it....i cannot put it in a mathmatical equation... Oh and as for your question "what good is spirituality without religion?" i have heard this saying: Religion is for those who are afraid to go to hell, spirituality is for those that have been to hell. This is my personal take on the difference: spirituality is available to us all, with or without organized religion, and religion is an organized set of rituals that may or may not include a diety or dieties and human structure that is supposed to help incorperate spirituality into the lives of humans. It often does, however, it also often does not. Religion was created by humans, spirituality simply exists within. I think the more pertinent question is, "what good is religion without spirituality?" chelle

DollMaster72 -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 8:15:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ quote: ORIGINAL: DollMaster72 quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar IMHO if you put up a religious board it would be a constant flaming session with the anti religious side. Are the "anti religious" really so intolerant? Why can't they be ok with other peoples beliefs? The religious are always being told they should be tolerant of others. DM Not being religious is not the same of being anti religious. But when those who are religious are not tolerant of those who aren't then it's certainly going to cause animosity. Something I hope you aren't attempting to cause (holding my tongue to not throw in a political jab LOL!) I'm not trying to cause any animosity. It looks like you are well in touch with your spiritual side. I was just trying to point out that the word religion is, in definition, broader than what it is commonly used to describe organized religion. Like the word intercourse is broader than sexual intercourse, yet that is the first association for many of us. As an analogy of what I am trying to describe... Spirituality is the sun, we are prisms, and the colors cast as the spirituality moves through us is religion. peace Z- DM

DollMaster72 -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 8:29:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty quote: ORIGINAL: DollMaster72 quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty not sure if this is relevant or not, but when i read your last post, octavia, it reminded me of something i wrote in another thread a few weeks ago...here it is... "i lived my life following my own will for way too long, i now try to live by God's will and i have figured out that i can fuck things up in an instant just let me let myself take back my will...so how does that figure into a power exchange relationship? I look for a Dominant that aligns his will with God's will so that when i align my will with my Dominants i am aligning my will with God's...and in my order's to "protect the property at all costs" even if that means protecting it from the owner...if my Dominants will deviates from God's i will keep my will aligned with God's until my Dominants will returns to aligned with God's rather than following my Dominants personal will...because my Dominant is human...not God.... " chelle How do you know if it is you taking your will back from God, or your dominant doing that in a given situation? DM if it doesn't feel right deep in my gut and heart...i can't explain it any better than that and if you have not experienced it yourself, you may or may not understand it....i cannot put it in a mathmatical equation... Oh and as for your question "what good is spirituality without religion?" i have heard this saying: Religion is for those who are afraid to go to hell, spirituality is for those that have been to hell. This is my personal take on the difference: spirituality is available to us all, with or without organized religion, and religion is an organized set of rituals that may or may not include a diety or dieties and human structure that is supposed to help incorperate spirituality into the lives of humans. It often does, however, it also often does not. Religion was created by humans, spirituality simply exists within. I think the more pertinent question is, "what good is religion without spirituality?" chelle I get the gut feeling. And that it is different than garlic and bellpeppers lol. I have also rubbed shoulders with direct revelation. On the religion issue, maybe just semantics. I am saddened by how the word has been demeaned. To me the complete definition of religion is how a persons spiritual beliefs are manifested in thier choices and actions. Pure and undefiled religion is taking care of widows and orphans, not sacraficing lambs or sitting in church pews. DM

slavegirljoy -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 9:08:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: octavia I am stuggling to find a balance and blend with my spiritual beliefs and my bdsm. I know threads keep popping up dealing with bdsm and christianity, I was just wondering why we don't have a section here on CM. Just because you can't find something on CM doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. There are many sites that are BDSM related, including some that are Christian related, too. Here's some that you can take a look at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mastersandslavesforjesus/ Masters and Slaves For Jesus http://groups.yahoo.com/group/submissivewomenforjesus/?yguid=244066480 Submissive Women For Jesus http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChristianBDSMsingles/ ChristianBDSMsingles · Single Christians interested in BD http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christian-singles-BDSM-personals/ Christian-singles-BDSM-personals http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/ Christians & BDSM http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BDSMChristians/ BDSMChristians · A place for Christian Dom/mes and Submissives to come and share ideas, concepts, fellowship and comraderie with others blending in the lifestyle and Christianity with everyday life. http://www.insolitology.com/rloddities/christianity.htm The Christianity/Sado-Masochism Connection or, On Your Knees for Christ http://www.sexinchrist.com/submission.html Bondage in Christ - BDSM in a Christian Marriage http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/cbdsmintro.html Christian-BDSM.org slave joy Owned property of Master David

MadRabbit -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 9:32:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DollMaster72 quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar IMHO if you put up a religious board it would be a constant flaming session with the anti religious side. Are the "anti religious" really so intolerant? Why can't they be ok with other peoples beliefs? The religious are always being told they should be tolerant of others. DM Well, there could be several possibilities. Maybe its because many people develop a sense of tunnel vision when it comes to religion and a narrow minded view of what God is and proceed to talk in an absolute sense that applies universally as opposed to their own little theistic existential world. I have my own personal religion and my own personal relationship with my own conception of God. It solely applies to me and my values and direction in life. However, if I were to submit a conjecture here about the existence of God and historical fact that went beyond solely the scope of my own personal life, as many people do, I would expect that to come under scrutiny and question in any forum of discussion. Particularly when people submit facts to support that conjecture that aren't anything close to being fact or even right. Maybe because this is a BDSM forum and it gets slightly annoying when certain individuals hijack threads so they can climb up on a soap box and whine and preach about their beliefs and understanding of the world.

Driver1961 -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/6/2007 10:32:33 PM)
He dips to all: To Octavia (OP) An excellent idea for a thread; that mostly I have enjoyed reading. I would suggest you place a signature at your posts requesting contact? A spirituality house would only further fragment topics and even duplicate them I'd reckon. Wow, thankyou SLAVEGIRL! very handy links. I wonder what the definition of 'hijack' is and who would respond to my question?

RCdc -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/7/2007 1:57:51 AM)
There is no place to have a 'safe' discussion on anything... because then it isn't really a discussion or debate, it is simply a safe conversation where everyone agrees and pats each other on the back. There are so many denominations and religons you would just end up getting everyone wanting a piece of the action with their own section, and I don't subscribe to seperating everyone into neat little boxes, because that just narrows the responses into what you want to hear, and that isn;t always what you need or should be hearing. For an example, blood or cutting as a play. If you are a JW, you would be totally against such a practise. How does that assist a evangelical? Or a Taoist? The whole information could get seriously fucked up unless you start listing on profiles religous beliefs - yet more work for the mods on the site and more labels and more seperation. I believe it's just laziness if people want everything done for them already. Truth is, it already is all done - there are yahoo groups all over. the.dark.

sapphirepleasure -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/7/2007 2:17:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty ...i identify as an eclectic christian mystic...i take rituals from all religions, find my center in christianity and do things that would be most closely identified with as a religious mystic...mystic (as defined by my World Religions text book Living Religions by Mary Pat Fisher) - one who has been encourage to develop their own intuitive abilities to perceive spiritual truths directly, beyond the senses, beyond the limits of human reason, beyond blind belief...and it can be found in all religions, theistic and non-theistic, those with monotheistic foundations tend to question the mystics more... Wow, chelle, for years I've been describing myself as a Christian mystic, with very eclectic spirituality (though not into organized religion any more). It's very cool and a little surprising to come across another person with a similar orientation.

SottoVoce -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/7/2007 2:17:51 AM)
Just chuckles I am waaay too much of a control freak to let some god tell me what to do. I hope you find what will help you progress.

octavia -> RE: blending beliefs ... how do i find others dealing with same issues (11/7/2007 7:26:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy quote: ORIGINAL: octavia I am stuggling to find a balance and blend with my spiritual beliefs and my bdsm. I know threads keep popping up dealing with bdsm and christianity, I was just wondering why we don't have a section here on CM. Just because you can't find something on CM doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. There are many sites that are BDSM related, including some that are Christian related, too. Here's some that you can take a look at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mastersandslavesforjesus/ Masters and Slaves For Jesus http://groups.yahoo.com/group/submissivewomenforjesus/?yguid=244066480 Submissive Women For Jesus http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChristianBDSMsingles/ ChristianBDSMsingles · Single Christians interested in BD http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christian-singles-BDSM-personals/ Christian-singles-BDSM-personals http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/ Christians & BDSM http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BDSMChristians/ BDSMChristians · A place for Christian Dom/mes and Submissives to come and share ideas, concepts, fellowship and comraderie with others blending in the lifestyle and Christianity with everyday life. http://www.insolitology.com/rloddities/christianity.htm The Christianity/Sado-Masochism Connection or, On Your Knees for Christ http://www.sexinchrist.com/submission.html Bondage in Christ - BDSM in a Christian Marriage http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/cbdsmintro.html Christian-BDSM.org slave joy Owned property of Master David Thank you! I have been looking on the net and found a few of those, but had no idea there were so many to choose from! Yes, I agree that moving myself more to another group is probably my best option, but I have to say it makes me a bit sad. [:(] again, thank you, oct

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