RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 1:37:13 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Um... the parlament?

Thats what Hillary is going to call the legislature, after she wins the election, and declares herself Queen.

We can only hope that congress failing to withstand her, will spell it correctly in the document of surrender. Otherwise there may be some legal doubt as to the outcome ala the florida debacle.

Gen Douglas MacArthur

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/15/2007 1:40:32 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Alumbrado)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 2:07:16 PM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ut when a person calls the president dumb or stupid, do you honestly think a person that is not very intelligent could be the president, no matter who his father is???

Yes. Being President is just a show-job. If senile old Reagan could pull it off, anyone can.

The dozen people with REAL POWER. The ones who TELL Cheney what to do?

You'll never even know what their names are.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Assman4u)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 2:09:39 PM

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

It is complete B.S.

Ten years ago many of the same people agreeing with this junk were the ones saying the exact same things about President Clinton but just happen to be on the different side. The article is just an intellectualized exercise of my beliefs and fears are rational those who disagree with me are irrational and in order for a person to swallow these thoughts they need to think the people who disagree with them are dumb zealots that are all on the extreme side of beliefs.

Go back throughout history and things have never changed and really having opponents from all zones on the map has not been what has caused a decline in a country. Just actually try to read about how Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton went after each other with zealotry fear mongering and lies. Both created newspapers to spew their hatred for each other beliefs and on and on.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to awmslave)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 2:12:58 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Whooooooooooooooo

Thats as mordant as I have ever seen you........everything ok?

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to toservez)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 2:45:37 PM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ust actually try to read about how Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton went after each other with zealotry fear mongering and lies. Both created newspapers to spew their hatred for each other beliefs and on and on.

No one had to tell any lies about Hamilton. Too bad he didn't get shot dead 18 years earlier... Would have saved everyone a lot of grief.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to toservez)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 2:49:01 PM

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Yes. Being President is just a show-job. If senile old Reagan could pull it off, anyone can.

The dozen people with REAL POWER. The ones who TELL Cheney what to do?

You'll never even know what their names are.

Yup... I've been saying all along that Bush is just a figurehead/operative of the PTB.

Hating a figurehead makes even less sense than chasing your tail. Both are a waste of emotional energy, but at least you get a physical workout chasing your tail.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 3:20:49 PM

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

Can we talk about the greater insanity of Loving GWB for a change please?

Z.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to subfever)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 4:02:03 PM

Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

The Insanity of Bush Hatred

Our politics suffer when passions overcome reason and vitriol becomes virtue.
BY PETER BERKOWITZ
Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST

Hating the president is almost as old as the republic itself. The people, or various factions among them, have indulged in Clinton hatred, Reagan hatred, Nixon hatred, LBJ hatred, FDR hatred, Lincoln hatred, and John Adams hatred, to mention only the more extravagant hatreds that we Americans have conceived for our presidents.

[clipped]

Firm

This is from the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal and they talk about irrational hatred of a sitting president? C'mon. These guys practically foamed at the mouth like werewolves, during the Clinton Administration.

thornhappy

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 4:12:52 PM

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

       Great post, Firm. The decision, by so many on the left, to make hatred of President Bush the most important value was what pushed me firmly onto the right side of the argument. I ran across the text of a speech by Senator Joe Lieberman that I found very interesting.

In particular, President Bush defined the nature of this new conflict in quintessentially liberal terms—as a struggle for freedom against tyranny. Like the Cold War, he described the war on terror as ultimately “between two fundamentally different visions of humanity.” On the one side of this struggle are the Islamist extremists who “promise paradise, but deliver a life of public beheadings and repression of women and suicide bombings.” And on the other side, “are huge numbers of moderate men and women…” in the Muslim world, who believe that “every life has dignity and value that no power on Earth can take away.”

That is why, to defeat radical Islam, President Bush has repeatedly argued that we must simultaneously fight—and fight hard—to uproot their networks, while offering our own, more powerful vision of the future, based on the universal values of freedom and justice and opportunity.

In this regard, the Bush administration’s post-9/11 ideological conversion confronted Democrats with an awkward choice. Should we welcome the President’s foreign policy flip-flop? Or should Democrats match it with a flip-flop of our own?

      I think we all know how that one worked out. The full text of the speech is here

     I'm gonna read the rest of the thread now. I think I already know what I'll find.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 5:12:24 PM

Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline

"So if you`re saying that Clinton`s critics were rational,then you must also say the bush`s critics, are at least as rational."

Thats not what I am saying at all. Some criticism of Clinton and Bush is rational, some is not. Your statement shows an incrediblly poor grasp of logic. Surely you are not pretending that claiming a survey that says 34% want him removed is actualy 61% is rational. That simply is not a rational statement. More of that ridiculous equivilancy on display. Keep it up, it gets Republicans votes.

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 5:53:35 PM

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

Firm

I've read the original article. It decries the actions of liberals as justifying hatred- but fails to ascribe any reason behind the hatred- thus making it appear blind and irrational. This has the effect of not determining a cause for the breakdown of the political process- merely stating that hatred is not a reasonable place to run a democracy from. (Which I agree with of course.) But by failing to investigate the reasons behind the hatred- there is no history- no possibility of learning what errors have happened to cause this break in civil discourse.

The article also attempts to justify the actions of the Bush administration with legal flimflammery. One of the problems with prosecuting the perpetrators of Nazi atrocities were that they acted legally- the Nazi government was the government of the country, and the judicial branch (which was merged with the police force.) passed laws which validated the actions of the government.

The author of the article- by attempting to claim a legal justification for torture- and then claiming that the US government is not torturing people now- is showing either a naivete or a breathtaking attempt at gulling his audience into accepting the status quo. But this shows the disingenuousness of the argument as well- having a debate requires some agreement on basic principles. For debate in this country, we need to agree that the Constitution and our body of laws which protect our freedoms are worth upholding. They cannot be discarded when it isn't convenient. (OK, I know that wartime emergencies give the President very broad authority- but the problem we've got here is that there was no imminent threat.) Hence, it's really very hard to have a debate with people that are bent on denying the essential freedoms and due process guaranteed by the Constitution. Since they've been having their way for the past 6 years and have shown no sign of listening to opposing viewpoints or modifying their actions, they are not being accorded the respect and deference that are shown to most citizens of this country.

In short- if the neocons want a polite debate- they have to follow the rules of US society and agree that Constitutional protections can't be thrown into the trashcan when someone disagrees with them. Determining how the impasse grew so impassioned and taking responsibility for their actions (liberals can follow the same rules) should also allow the resumption of polite debate, rather than bathos. But merely complaining that the system is broken and failing to take responsibilty for their actions which have lead to this impasse, continues to defeat even the possibility of the resumption of polite debate.

Sam

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 6:20:31 PM

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Thats as mordant as I have ever seen you........everything ok?

I give the post a 10 for the use of the word "mordant."

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 6:28:45 PM

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

<fast reply>

Republicans who share Firm's concern (and mine) about the corrosive effects of vitriol on American politics have an excellent opportunity to lead by example through their responses to Hillary Clinton.

It will be highly interesting, for example, to see how many Republicans, both nationally and here at our own beloved CM, voice their disapproval of referring to Sen. Clinton as "the bitch" and fault John McCain for not criticizing such vitriol from a fellow Republican.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 6:34:50 PM

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

Some further musings

Perhaps one of the most shameful actions in our history was the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII and their deportation to concentration camps. These citizens were not accorded due process- with the justification of racism and fear, these people lost their homes, their freedom, their businesses and some lost their lives. I suspect that many of the same justifications are now being trotted out to deprive Muslims of their freedoms and due processes. What is disheartening here is that we have refused to learn from our mistakes- that fearmongering has lead to torture, false imprisonment, and murder. We have done this by demonizing the Muslims of the world- by claiming that there is some monstrous conspiracy where these people intend to do us physical and economic harm- but they have no weapons of mass destruction- no major armies, navies, or air forces of any significance in comparison to our own. We had as little evidence to convict massive numbers of Japanese Americans of treasonous activities- and accomplished nothing in thwarting the goals of the Japanese war machine, but injured our own war effort by the waste of resources imprisoning these people, undermining our moral underpinning in the war, and reducing our economic output.

As a suggestion- perhaps the first step in the healing process is an acknowledgement that our treatment of the Muslims of the world has helped recruit terrorists, not stop them, that our abandonment of our principles has left us with no moral or ethical justification for our actions. So if the neocons stop demonizing liberals and Muslims, perhaps we can begin debating politely again. Are there Muslim terrorists- yes, obviously. But we cannot catch those responsible for terrorist actions by our racist/religious bigotry and the absurd claim that US citizens of the Muslim religion are not entitled to the same protections under the Constitution as everyone else.

Sam

(in reply to samboct)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 6:41:47 PM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

<fast reply>

Republicans who share Firm's concern (and mine) about the corrosive effects of vitriol on American politics have an excellent opportunity to lead by example through their responses to Hillary Clinton.

It will be highly interesting, for example, to see how many Republicans, both nationally and here at our own beloved CM, voice their disapproval of referring to Sen. Clinton as "the bitch" and fault John McCain for not criticizing such vitriol from a fellow Republican.

I would suggest that this round of phony, manufactured indignation is just more bullshit.

"the corrosive effects of vitriol on American politics"?

The concept is laughable. Are you aware that on May 22, 1856 ( Yes, 151 YEARS AGO ) Rep. Preston Brooks BEAT Sen. Charles Sumner into unconsiousness IN THE SENATE CHAMBER with a cane???

So, I'm not sure how we get from that event to some hypothetical current-high-ground from which it's POSSIBLE to bemoan the "corrosive effects".

P.S.: I, for one, would welcome the return of physical violence among members of the Legislature. CSPAN would become #1 in the ratings.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 11/15/2007 6:43:05 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 6:49:40 PM

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Are you aware that on May 22, 1856 ( Yes, 151 YEARS AGO ) Rep. Preston Brooks BEAT Sen. Charles Sumner into unconsiousness IN THE SENATE CHAMBER with a cane???

Yes. And many of Brooks's supporters sent him gift canes after the attack.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 7:00:01 PM

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

<fast reply>

Republicans who share Firm's concern (and mine) about the corrosive effects of vitriol on American politics have an excellent opportunity to lead by example through their responses to Hillary Clinton.

It will be highly interesting, for example, to see how many Republicans, both nationally and here at our own beloved CM, voice their disapproval of referring to Sen. Clinton as "the bitch" and fault John McCain for not criticizing such vitriol from a fellow Republican.

If Hilary wins next year, I promise not to call her President Thunder Thighs, Hitlery, Bitchary, or Nixon with a Vagina until after she has been impeached and removed from office.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 7:03:55 PM

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

I think both Bush and Clinton are and were awful presidents.
I mean terrible.
But, I don't "hate" them because I've never met them and don't know them and wouldn't care to.
With Bush you can criticize his policies more than the man.
With Clinton it was the opposite.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 8:10:40 PM

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

<fast reply>

Republicans who share Firm's concern (and mine) about the corrosive effects of vitriol on American politics have an excellent opportunity to lead by example through their responses to Hillary Clinton.

It will be highly interesting, for example, to see how many Republicans, both nationally and here at our own beloved CM, voice their disapproval of referring to Sen. Clinton as "the bitch" and fault John McCain for not criticizing such vitriol from a fellow Republican.

I can't believe that you would really think that anyone would refer to that sweet, warm, wonderful Hillary Clinton as "the bitch". Where did you even come up with such an outlandish idea as that?

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 8:34:30 PM

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

<fast reply>

Republicans who share Firm's concern (and mine) about the corrosive effects of vitriol on American politics have an excellent opportunity to lead by example through their responses to Hillary Clinton.

It will be highly interesting, for example, to see how many Republicans, both nationally and here at our own beloved CM, voice their disapproval of referring to Sen. Clinton as "the bitch" and fault John McCain for not criticizing such vitriol from a fellow Republican.

I can't believe that you would really think that anyone would refer to that sweet, warm, wonderful Hillary Clinton as "the bitch". Where did you even come up with such an outlandish idea as that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLQGWpRVA7o&feature=related

These are the people who complain about bush haters?
lol yeah right....

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/15/2007 8:54:58 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.133