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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 8:40:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

<fast reply>

Republicans who share Firm's concern (and mine) about the corrosive effects of vitriol on American politics have an excellent opportunity to lead by example through their responses to Hillary Clinton.

It will be highly interesting, for example, to see how many Republicans, both nationally and here at our own beloved CM, voice their disapproval of referring to Sen. Clinton as "the bitch" and fault John McCain for not criticizing such vitriol from a fellow Republican.

I can't believe that you would really think that anyone would refer to that sweet, warm, wonderful Hillary Clinton as "the bitch". Where did you even come up with such an outlandish idea as that?

Hard to believe, isn't it?! As if a Republican lady would ever utter the b-word instead of the oh-so-classy "rhymes with witch." Then again, people do say the damnedest things. Why, some dude in the WSJ was actually arguing that Bush hatred was unique. Poor man clearly forgot his meds.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 8:46:42 PM

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quote:

I can't believe that you would really think that anyone would refer to that sweet, warm, wonderful Hillary Clinton as "the bitch". Where did you even come up with such an outlandish idea as that?

"Carpetbagging Cunt" is both alliterative and descriptive.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:34:03 PM

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How to make an angryAmerican

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 10:53:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I think the hatred that is so pervasive and accepted by the "progressive left" in America is one of the two threads in modern US politics that bodes ill for the republic.

The other, related thread is the wide acceptance of conspiratorial theories of government and history.

Firm

Yes, but its the center that hates BUSH. That's why his rating is down to 25%.

In the United States the whole political spectrum has moved to the right. So, Bill and Hillary Clinton ----- if measured against history --- would match up as Eisenhower or Rockefeller Republicans. (Fiscal conservatives, somewhat liberal / egalitarian in their running of the executive.)

The "progressive" left has basically been pushed out of the picture (socialist platforms, public ownership of utilities and other industries of national importance, socialized medicine.)

The extreme right is sitting in the White House. (Conducts policy in secrecy, uses the military as an ordinary arm of diplomacy, disables federal agencies with anti-gov't ideologues, outsources regulation to industry lobbyists and wonks, theological devotion to supply side economic theories, and interventionist government policies regarding social issues: reproduction, marriage, pornography, and the arts.)

The extremes of the Right and Left have always been unpopular, because they are out of sync with the center.

So, one core reason that Bush is hated is that he has pretty much abandoned centrist America altogether. (Which favors paying down the national debt, stronger environmental policies, better managed foreign relations, investment in the American infrastructure, and a gov't that focuses on improving the delivery and efficiency of what government services we already have: medicare, social security, FEMA, crime protection, etc.)

Given the exploding national debt, failed IRAQ war, and the Katrina Debacle ---- Bush has simply lost the nation's center.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 11/15/2007 10:55:01 PM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 10:56:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

I do agree with the post. I watch sometimes Bill Maher show and I feel strong discomfort. The same people who have gained great wealth as a result of US politics hate how the country functions. There is certainly strong element of irrationality how US liberal left sees the country. It will be interesting to see if change happens after democrats will win White House and the parlament.

Bill Maher is a libertarian, not a leftist.

(in reply to awmslave)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 11:30:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

FR,

All the above post confirm the point of the article.

If you demonize your political opponents, isn't this dehumanizing them?

And isn't dehumanizing the first step to killing, rather than engaging in the political process?

Firm

You've just shown you understand why there is so much Bush hatred, he demoniozes everyone that thinks differently to him or maybe he just demonizes people who think, fullstop. It was Bush who pulled out of just about every meaningful international treaty because no one knew anything but him, it was Bush who said if you aren't with him you are against him. It was Bush who set out on an illegal and unjustified adventure that has cost so many innocent lives. Hell I could go on.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 11:37:22 PM

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Cloud boy, the center does not Hate Bush. Around 30%, the hard right and left, do. The hard right is exemplfied by posters like Real and Fargbargle. They hate Bush. There is a huge difference between hate and not supporting policies.

Libertarians want to eliminate all welfare and Gov programs, not specifically called for in the Constitution. Not a penny for education or health care. Bil Mahr does not suport that, and he is not a "Libertarian". Chomsky leftists sometimes use that label, but it is not accurate.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 11:55:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I think the hatred that is so pervasive and accepted by the "progressive left" in America is one of the two threads in modern US politics that bodes ill for the republic.

The other, related thread is the wide acceptance of conspiratorial theories of government and history.

Firm

Yes, but its the center that hates BUSH. That's why his rating is down to 25%.

In the United States the whole political spectrum has moved to the right. So, Bill and Hillary Clinton ----- if measured against history --- would match up as Eisenhower or Rockefeller Republicans. (Fiscal conservatives, somewhat liberal / egalitarian in their running of the executive.)

The "progressive" left has basically been pushed out of the picture (socialist platforms, public ownership of utilities and other industries of national importance, socialized medicine.)

The extreme right is sitting in the White House. (Conducts policy in secrecy, uses the military as an ordinary arm of diplomacy, disables federal agencies with anti-gov't ideologues, outsources regulation to industry lobbyists and wonks, theological devotion to supply side economic theories, and interventionist government policies regarding social issues: reproduction, marriage, pornography, and the arts.)

The extremes of the Right and Left have always been unpopular, because they are out of sync with the center.

So, one core reason that Bush is hated is that he has pretty much abandoned centrist America altogether. (Which favors paying down the national debt, stronger environmental policies, better managed foreign relations, investment in the American infrastructure, and a gov't that focuses on improving the delivery and efficiency of what government services we already have: medicare, social security, FEMA, crime protection, etc.)

Given the exploding national debt, failed IRAQ war, and the Katrina Debacle ---- Bush has simply lost the nation's center.

Cloudboy, well said.
Most people just want our government to do it's job domestically and not get us involved in other countries problems.
That's one thing that we need much less of is "foreign affairs."
And spending money that doesn't exist!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 12:06:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Cloud boy, the center does not Hate Bush. Around 30%, the hard right and left, do. The hard right is exemplfied by posters like Real and Fargbargle. They hate Bush. There is a huge difference between hate and not supporting policies.

Libertarians want to eliminate all welfare and Gov programs, not specifically called for in the Constitution. Not a penny for education or health care. Bil Mahr does not suport that, and he is not a "Libertarian". Chomsky leftists sometimes use that label, but it is not accurate.

Cloud boy, the center does not Hate Bush

I don`t think anyone "hates",bush.It`s that they love America.Big difference.

When you see a bully beating up a kid,you stop the bully,not b/c you hate him,but because you want to help the victim.The motivation isn`t hate for the bully,but rather it`s concern for the victim.

People`s motivation here ,is a concern for America,not a hatred for anyone.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/16/2007 12:08:20 AM >

(in reply to luckydog1)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 1:12:56 AM

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The country is so divided; it's either black or white, good or evil, "with us or against us", love or hate. In general the media wants to break things down into sound bites, and you can’t have a sound bite that is in the gray zone, it has to be either black or white, hence another reason why I feel such a great division has taken place. The truth of the matter is that I think the people who say that hate bush are misdirecting their anger. Bush is simply doing exactly what the founding fathers knew someone in a position of power would do. There is a very good reason why we have a legislative and judicial branch, as well as executive; it comes down to checks and balances. If anything, the past 7 years has shown, it has to be exactly how important having a check on presidential power is, and how detrimental political parties can be when they undermined the process of checks and balances. If you want to use a rather fun little example, if someone is walking a dog, and the dog bites you, do you blame the dog, or the person who is suppose to be holding it's leash and controlling it? Congress has not been holding the leash these past 7 years. If as a congressman, you are not right there, looking at every little thing a president does, and using all your powers to stop him when you feel he is harming the country, then you are not doing your job, and need to step aside so someone with some actual balls can hold the leash. All the harm that has been done to this country (warrantless wiretaps, military commissions act, patriot act, firing of US attorneys because they didn't embrace the same political ideology of the president) is nothing that presidents in the past haven't tried or wanted, but we were protected those other times by a congress who's members not only passed their 9th grade civics class, but probably actually understood it.

On a side not, I will admit I was pleasantly surprised when I heard that some members of the senate are trying to keep enough senators in DC so that Bush can't just hold out until the senate is not in session, then make his political appointments... hence bypassing the need for senate approval.

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 3:59:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
Hard to believe, isn't it?! As if a Republican lady would ever utter the b-word instead of the oh-so-classy "rhymes with witch." Then again, people do say the damnedest things. Why, some dude in the WSJ was actually arguing that Bush hatred was unique. Poor man clearly forgot his meds.

You're missing the point entirely.

Many on the left refer to Hillary as a bitch because, dare I say... she is one. She's a classic bitch.

So now, you're insisting that Republicans, after eight years of Bush-bashing madness begine referring to Hillary Clinton with soft, kind, sweet words of love, affection and devotion. When you yourself came up with the term "bitch" in relation to her all on your own?

There's a huge difference between what FHK refers to as insane hatred, and calling a spade a spade. Saying "The President might not be the brightest we've ever had, despite the fact that he earned higher marks in Yale and / or Harvard than John Kerry did" is different than calling him "Monkey Boy" or a hundred other extremely disparaging terms used with extreme hatred, and it's different than calling Hillary a bitch...

And there is "just cause" too. There are many who honestly believe that the Clintons sold missile guidance technology to the Chinese, enabling the Chinese to target the entire USA with nuclear missiles. There is strong evidence suggesting that. Hating Bill and Hillary for that is entirely different than hating President Bush for an imaginary war for oil, or any of many other ideas cooked up solely as justification to dehuminize him and the entire right.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 5:03:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

There is strong evidence suggesting that. Hating Bill and Hillary for that is entirely different than hating President Bush for an imaginary war for oil, or any of many other ideas cooked up solely as justification to dehuminize him and the entire right.

One can argue the toss about whether the Iraqi war was/is for oil or not but there is no arguement he invaded a country that had not attacked the US, that was not harbouring terrorists and was not a threat to the US, causing thousands of deaths of innocent people in its wake. Yeah, Saddam was brutal but he was not the only brutal dictator in the world but he was one that had oil and that didn't have strong enough allies to ward off the US.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 5:27:25 AM

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How soon we forget history. Meatcleaver appears to be arguing that the US should not come to the defense of it's allies, unless we are attacked. So, there would have been no cold war, Vietnam, WW1 or WW2.

Sadam's constant refusal to follow the UN's mandates, left the door open for us to again enter Iraq. Hell yes we went in. Who wouldn't take advantage of an opportunity to go into the mideast and take on Islamic extremist on their soil, not ours. Maybe Iraq did not attack us directly, but they were known supporters fo the militants that did attack us. How else to you counter strike militants who have no common citezenship? We havent been fighting Iraqis for quite some time. We have been fighting the Islamic militants, by drawing them into Iraq.

Though I am not a big supporter of GW, he promised to strike back after 911 and kept his word. The Bush haters, in my view, are equivalent of the French.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 5:29:13 AM

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Hillary was and is behind freeing the Iraqi people, as most Democrats were behind helping the people of Iraq long before President George W. Bush was even elected. Hillary argues today in favor of maintaining a protective presence there to help them get on their feet... so your argument is a red herring, isn't it.

If you can dehumanize President Bush and the entire political right by calling him / them monkey boys or what-have-you over Iraq, yet support Hillary Clinton then you need to think about things for a while, don't you.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to meatcleaver)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 5:39:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: boytoy4female

How soon we forget history. Meatcleaver appears to be arguing that the US should not come to the defense of it's allies, unless we are attacked. So, there would have been no cold war, Vietnam, WW1 or WW2.

Did you miss the part in 1941 where the Japanese bombed the US in Hawaii, and then the German Ambassador delivered a Declaration of War against the US the very next day?

quote:

Sadam's constant refusal to follow the UN's mandates, left the door open for us to again enter Iraq. Hell yes we went in. Who wouldn't take advantage of an opportunity to go into the mideast and take on Islamic extremist on their soil, not ours.

Except Hussein's government was the most effective in the Middle East in suppressing those "Islamic extremists".

You wanna take the fight to the Islamic extremists? Then invade and occupy Saudi Arabia. THEY'RE the ones who planned, financed, and executed the WTC and Pentagon attacks.

quote:

Maybe Iraq did not attack us directly, but they were known supporters fo the militants that did attack us. How else to you counter strike militants who have no common citezenship?

15 Saudis and 4 Egyptians. What's your problem?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to boytoy4female)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 6:53:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: boytoy4female

How soon we forget history. Meatcleaver appears to be arguing that the US should not come to the defense of it's allies, unless we are attacked. So, there would have been no cold war, Vietnam, WW1 or WW2.

Sadam's constant refusal to follow the UN's mandates, left the door open for us to again enter Iraq. Hell yes we went in. Who wouldn't take advantage of an opportunity to go into the mideast and take on Islamic extremist on their soil, not ours. Maybe Iraq did not attack us directly, but they were known supporters fo the militants that did attack us. How else to you counter strike militants who have no common citezenship? We havent been fighting Iraqis for quite some time. We have been fighting the Islamic militants, by drawing them into Iraq.

Though I am not a big supporter of GW, he promised to strike back after 911 and kept his word. The Bush haters, in my view, are equivalent of the French.

You do realize that everything you wrote is bullshit? Just what allie was you going to the defence of? What Islamic extremists were in Iraq? You are just showing tyour complete ignorance, just about the whole world apart from Dumbfuckistan knows that Iraq was not supporting militants that attacked the US and US interests.

As for the French. What Chirac said would happen in Iraq if the US invaded has happened, so even those cheese eating surrender monkies know more than you!

Oh. Much of the world believe the US needed another UN mandate for military action against Iraq. Even the initial British legal assessment said that invading Iraq would be illegal before political pressure used to change that assessment but we can argue that all night.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/16/2007 6:57:03 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 6:56:07 AM

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And let us not forget all the overtures of cooperation that Iran has been making with us, (yeah, read the fucking news!!!) and we have rebuffed, missing some great opportunities there.

Well, no doubt the insane hatred of bush is deplorable to some, but he is just so fucking insanely hateable......whatcha gonna do?

Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/16/2007 6:57:33 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to meatcleaver)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 6:56:37 AM

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I'm sorry. We just got notification from the DHS... we are to move this thread to a "free speech zone" located in the sub-basement, inside a disued men's room that has a sign on the door that reads: "Beware of the Leopard." (Seems they've moved a lot of dissent speech to there.) Those who do not comply will be kidnapped, sent overseas to a black prison, waterboarded, then left in a wood in Germany to fend for themselves while still handcuffed. Oh, and your families will be "swift boated" if they say anything about your going missing. The DHS will know this of course, because they have you phone tapped. Don't expect a fair trial, should it ever come to that... the president will just create a signing letter that absolves him and his cronies from responsibility.

(humming) "For beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain...."

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 7:00:39 AM

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What is the difference in Bush hatred and Bush lying? Think about that one.

Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/16/2007 9:13:50 AM

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Is it wrong to hate a liar? Does *everyone* need to hate the lie but love the liar? That *may be* a very "Christian" point of view, but should that POV be accepted everywhere?

If so, why overthrow Hussein's government because he lied?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to MissSCD)

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