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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 7:37:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Farg, I was wrong, the 2/3 for PM was part of the Transitional Gov, not the permenant (current) one. That being said. Jaffini was the PM durring the transitional Gov, and when he was nominated by the UIA to the Permanent post, was unable to from a cabinet, then the UIA nominated Maliki who did from a cabinet and become PM. They did not get it done in the required amount of days, so I guess that was a technical violation of some sort.

What exactly is your problem with them following the process?

My problem is that they didn't follow the process.

That makes them illegitimate. "The Law" is irrelevant, it's "Do what you can get away with".

Of course, that's part and parcel with a pointless, toothless puppet regime, which cannot even secure the "Green Zone", much less unite a nation which doesn't want to be united. I don't expect any different, after all the *are* just pretending so that they can get paid.

To claim that that charade is Truth, Justice and The American Way is ludicrous.

It's really the same problem I have with the US. There's a perfectly legal PROCESS to conduct surveillance on legitimate targets. Bush didn't follow that process. Bush and AT&T have to pay the penalties or they make a mockery of the notion of Justice in a Nation of Laws.

That's the point pretending you have something ( a "Nation of Laws" ) when you don't.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to luckydog1)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 7:46:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Some would say that by investing in freeing fifty million people in Iraq and Afghanistan and therefore providing twin beacons of Liberty, Democracy and Enlightenment for all of the oppressed people of the Middle East and everywhere else, President Bush is heralding in a golden age on this planet and a period of peace and prosperity that no one is capable of even imagining.

This is naive bullshit.

And that is being so generous it's mind boggling.

Sanity, please tell me that was a joke! You actually believe that? I mean, for real?

WTF?

You know, I wouldn't really have a problem with that as a GOAL.

Of course the Bush Administration is just not sophisticated enough to pull anything that complicated off. ( Witness L. Paul Bremer's destruction of the existing internal governance structures as one of many examples ) Bush was too busy rewarding cronies, too practice effective foreign policy. ( Of course, in NOLA, Bush was too busy rewarding cronies to practice effective domestic policy...

And that doesn't even address the lack of proper legal procedures for executing any of that. It would require an Amendment to the Constitution first delegating that kind of "White Mans Burden" mission to the feds, first.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 8:05:28 AM

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Democrats think that at any cost they have to make sure Democracy fails in Iraq so that history frowns upon the presidency of George W. Bush.

Immediately after 9/11 everyone came together in America, but that only lasted a couple of weeks before the far left began to realize that a nation united under President Bush meant his re-election in 2004.

When the far left realized that, everything changed. Freeing fifty million people in the Mideast became "war crimes" and President George W. Bush became "Bushitler" "Monkey Boy" the "Chimp-In-Chief" - anything but "the President". Spying on terrorists was suddenly the worst possible thing in the world. Detaining them or (gasp!) questioning them was a horror beyond imagination...

America could do no right from the moment President Bush became popular right after 9/11 because the re-election of George W. Bush had to be stopped.

To the haters on the left, it's all politics.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 8:12:44 AM

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Firm (assuming you're still reading this)

I think we've got some convergence and something of an answer. Debate plunges into bathos when one side ignores facts presented in order to maintain the fiction that its premises were correct. If you're debating someone and they insist that the sky is green, while you insist that its blue- then they look at the sky- and still insist it's not blue- this is not a debate- this becomes bathos. We cannot even agree on basic facts, because the facts have been spun in such a fashion that we no longer know what truth is in this country.

We have such an example here- to whit-GWB's stated reason for invading Iraq were WMD, against the wishes of a significant minority in this country, and certainly in opposition to world opinion. When GWB's men failed to find a smoking gun, rather than take responsibility for his actions, the stated goal of the invasion was now altered to "freeing Iraqi's from the tyranny of Saddam Hussein." This is a failure to acknowledge error and take responsibility for one's actions. (Very reminiscent of the second presidential debate, when GWB was asked what mistakes he's made- his response was, "I'm sure I've made some, I just can't recall what they are right now.") It also means that the rules of a democracy involving polite debate are not being followed- owning up to ones errors enables you to point out the errors of others in a constructive process. Refusing to own up to one's errors, and continuing to point out the failings of others will (and has) degenerated to bathos. Thus this article is counter productive- pointing fingers without acknowledging culpability merely breeds further bathos, and does not lead to the resumption of polite debate.

Firm- I think you need to ask yourself if the author is sharp enough to figure this out- then what is to be gained by further bathos? It's not a pretty picture.

The premise of the article is that hatred of the neocons (I hesitate to call them Republicans, because Lincoln would be rolling over in his grave- and so would Eisenhower.) is unjustified and damages the political process. But by failing to determine why the liberals "hate" GWB, the author does not allow the possibility that such hatred is justified. (This is like Goebbels asking - Why do the Jews hate us Nazis so much?) And while you may consider the parallel with the Nazis odious, my point is that GWBs actions have far too much in common with the Nazi's destruction of the Weimar republic to be quickly dismissed. If they did not, then my parallel is merely laughable.

As noted in the posts above- GWB's actions are not those of a president of a democracy- cognizant that he is an elected leader and responsible to all- even those who did not vote for him. His actions are those of a despot- bent on achieving his own ends at all costs. While the actions of a president should not be hated, the actions of a despot should be despised- our founding fathers would have no problem with our anger towards a man who has been attempting to subvert our constitution and remove our liberties in the name of a trumped up war.

The simple answer is that GWB is hated because his actions are not those of a president- he has violated his oath to guard the people of this country and their Constitution and his lies have cost American lives (and tens of thousands of others) liberties, and their standing in the world.

I also think Cloudboy's political analysis was also accurate- Clinton was far more a centrist than GWB. He was certainly no liberal.

For the folks that equate Hilary bashing with GWB bashing and justify it on the basis that the liberals are bashing Bush- Hilary is a New York senator who has been acting within the bounds of her elected position and the Constitution. As such, she is entitled to the respect that any senator should enjoy- whether or not you agree with their decisions. For the PC folks though, physical descriptions such as Thunder Thighs are within bounds of accepted political discourse- through the 1800s and much of the early part of the 20th century, wealthy capitalists were often depicted with bloated bellies. While I may not agree with many of Hilary's political decisions, I've got to give her credit for guts- in the debate on Thursday- she certainly looked perfectly willing to take the heat of the kitchen. (Hell, I'm from Connecticut- I'm voting for Dodd. Richardson would be my second choice.) GWB on the other hand, is not entitled to such respect since his subversion of the Constitution shows that he has abrogated the duties of his office. As I've said before- I'll give GWB credit for a lot of chutzpah, but neither his goals nor his means are laudable.

Sam

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 8:24:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Democrats think that at any cost they have to make sure Democracy fails in Iraq so that history frowns upon the presidency of George W. Bush.

The Democrats don't have to do *anything*. Western Democracy in the Middle East, is doomed to failure. The notion of "All people being created equal" is incompatible with the "Imam is always right" bent of Islamic States.

Bush "failed" the moment he invaded. Because there *isn't* any solution which would be acceptable ( the formal separation of Iraq into the 3 or 4 separate nations it really is would be a start -- But that's impossible for Bush, who has gone all in on a Democratic Iraqi. )

quote:

Immediately after 9/11 everyone came together in America, but that only lasted a couple of weeks before the far left began to realize that a nation united under President Bush meant his re-election in 2004.

By "everyone" you mean the Neocon Party Whores and their Ball-lickers? Because while that may be the spin that the Loyal Bushies would like to apply, there were a lot of people who weren't buying in.

quote:

When the far left realized that, everything changed. Freeing fifty million people in the Mideast became "war crimes".

Well, without an Amendment giving Bush the authority to "Free fifty million people" on the US's dime, yeah, the case could be made that the invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation without casus belli was , in fact "War Crimes" under international law.

quote:

and President George W. Bush became "Bushitler"

That started with the deprivation of Habeas Corpus. Hitler is as Hitler does, and depriving the untermensch of their inalienable rights is right up there.

quote:

"Monkey Boy" the "Chimp-In-Chief"

You gotta admit, there's alot of shots where He *does* look like an ape.

quote:

- anything but "the President". Spying on terrorists was suddenly the worst possible thing in the world. Detaining them or (gasp!) questioning them was a horror beyond imagination...

No, SPYING ON US CITIZENS AND LEGAL RESIDENTS DOMESTIC COMMUNICATIONS IN VIOLATION OF EXPRESS US LAW is the worst possible thing in the world, as it evidences a disregard for the founding principles of "Truth and Justice".

It is prima-fascie evidence of violating the Constitutional Oath of Office.

Why do you keep spinning EFF v AT&T as anything BUT a massive internal blanket unlimited exercise in surveillance of YOU, YOUR FAMILY, ME, AND EVERYONE ELSE, in violation of the 4th Amendment and US Law.

FISA controls what acts are Legal. And Bush violated that law.

quote:

America could do no right from the moment President Bush became popular right after 9/11 because the re-election of George W. Bush had to be stopped.

To the haters on the left, it's all politics.

Yeah, if you wanna spin denouncing torture and surveillance the Commies and Nazis would have taken out loans to buy as the politics of leftist haters, that's your choice.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 11/17/2007 8:28:44 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 8:29:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

...the stated goal of the invasion was now altered to "freeing Iraqi's from the tyranny of Saddam Hussein."

No, that's not true, that's simply another mistruth that the far left came up with to try to undermine the United States out of their insane hatred for President Bush.

All of the Lefts presidential candidates who were in a position of national significance except Kucinich worked to remove Saddam Hussein because of the danger he was to the international community and because of his human rights record.

President Bush spoke clearly about Saddam Hussein's cruelty to his own people prior to the invasion - it was a reason among many.

Because WMDs were never found doesn't mean "Bush lied, people died" unless it also means Clinton, Kerry, Gore etc. lied people died too, because they all said the same thing as Bush.

It's just more insane hatred that seems to blind the left to those very basic and simple truths. The left has to smear George Bush, they have to make sure Iraq fails, and your arguments are just more of the same.

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(in reply to samboct)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 8:45:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Immediately after 9/11 everyone came together in America, but that only lasted a couple of weeks before the far left began to realize that a nation united under President Bush meant his re-election in 2004.

Believe me Sanity, America doesn't have a far left. What you call far left is centrist or centre left at most. After 9/11, Bush had the whole free world on his side, where he lost support was his unprovoked and iladvised invasion of Iraq.

But keep shouting about the far left, you might convince yourself and your fellow Bushites that one exists but you won't convince any well grounded people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

When the far left realized that, everything changed. Freeing fifty million people in the Mideast became "war crimes" and President George W. Bush became "Bushitler" "Monkey Boy" the "Chimp-In-Chief" - anything but "the President". Spying on terrorists was suddenly the worst possible thing in the world. Detaining them or (gasp!) questioning them was a horror beyond imagination...

I refuse to believe you really believe the US was on a mission to free fity million people in the middle east. I suppose he intends to make that 120 million by invading Iran next?

If you really believe what you are saying, you have certainly become detached from reality.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 8:56:15 AM

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quote:

President Bush spoke clearly about Saddam Hussein's cruelty to his own people prior to the invasion - it was a reason among many.

Which makes my point about Bush and his cronies being to unsophisticated to understand the situation, much less make proper policy decisions.

You know *why* Hussein was such an asshole? Because to maintain a Unified, Democratic Iraq, in the face of the Saudi sponsored Fundamentalist Islamic and other separatist factions, you *need* to be an asshole.

And they are surprised that the lid came off the Sunni/Shia/Kurd/Arab/Furry conflict?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 9:05:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Believe me Sanity, America doesn't have a far left.

When talking about others being "detached from reality" you should be mindful of the fact that you're living in a glass reality.

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to meatcleaver)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 9:09:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

You know *why* Hussein was such an asshole? Because to maintain a Unified, Democratic Iraq, in the face of the Saudi sponsored Fundamentalist Islamic and other separatist factions, you *need* to be an asshole.

And they are surprised that the lid came off the Sunni/Shia/Kurd/Arab/Furry conflict?

I've heard that kind of argument a lot. "Those animals over there are too primitive, they can't be civilized".

If it's unsophisticated to believe in my fellow man, then that's exactly what I am - and I'm damn proud of it.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 9:49:50 AM

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Sanity

Your arguments show why liberals despise neocons- their avoidance of facts and deflection of responsibility toward others.

The logic of the liberals (and most others) is quite simple.

1) GWB claimed that there were WMD in Iraq that posed a grave threat to the safety of the USA.
2) We invaded a sovereign nation as a preemptive strike under the pronouncement that our security was at stake.
3) No WMD were found.

Hence, our original assertion was in error- and therefore the invasion was in error as well. QED.

Your claim that "No, that's not true, that's simply another mistruth that the far left came up with to try to undermine the United States out of their insane hatred for President Bush. " is specious- it's irrelevant, since it doesn't address the first point- to whit, we invaded a sovereign nation that posed no immediate threat. Here in a microcosm is the descent towards bathos- you refuse to face facts and take responsibility. GWB's invasion of Iraq has as much justification as Hitler's invasion of Poland. Wasn't Hitler liberating Poland who he claimed was oppressing some Germans living there? And yet again- let me reiterate- hatred of a despot is by no means insane. Only if GWBs actions are not those of a despot is the hatred unjustified.

I would suggest that claiming that you are the only sane individual here and that the rest of us are nuts should be cause for some self reflection. From my perspective- it's not insane to support a despot- merely either misguided or mean.

Sam

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 9:49:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I've heard that kind of argument a lot. "Those animals over there are too primitive, they can't be civilized".

If it's unsophisticated to believe in my fellow man, then that's exactly what I am - and I'm damn proud of it.

This makes me smile. In the thread about 35 million poor Americans you said hunger was a great motivator, that doesn't say you have much faith in your fellow man to me.

Actually following your logic, chaos should prove a great motivator for the Iraqis to choose free, democratic, (albeit, western style) freedom.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/17/2007 9:52:49 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 10:01:39 AM

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So even though Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and Edwards all said that Saddam was a threat who needed to be removed from power and they all pushed towards that goal, you feel completely justified in hatefully attacking only the Right. And me personally...

FirmhandKY was dead on right with his original post then.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to samboct)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 10:13:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

So even though Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and Edwards all said that Saddam was a threat who needed to be removed from power and they all pushed towards that goal, you feel completely justified in hatefully attacking only the Right. And me personally...

FirmhandKY was dead on right with his original post then.

Did Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry and Edwards present information to Congress and the general public through deceit, craft, trickery, dishonest means, and fraudulent representations, including lies, half-truths, material omissions, and statements made with reckless indifference to their truth or falsity, while knowing and intending that such fraudulent representations would influence Congress' decisions regarding authorization to use military force and funding for military action?

I think that is the essential difference. None of the people you offered up in defense did anything as incredibly stupid as invading and occupying Iraq. And they didn't apparently violate US Law in the doing so.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 10:18:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

You know *why* Hussein was such an asshole? Because to maintain a Unified, Democratic Iraq, in the face of the Saudi sponsored Fundamentalist Islamic and other separatist factions, you *need* to be an asshole.

And they are surprised that the lid came off the Sunni/Shia/Kurd/Arab/Furry conflict?

I've heard that kind of argument a lot. "Those animals over there are too primitive, they can't be civilized".

If it's unsophisticated to believe in my fellow man, then that's exactly what I am - and I'm damn proud of it.

I said that the ground rules for effective governance are wholly different, and incompatible with Western Democracy.

NOT that the Iraqis were in any respect "uncivilized". They just have DIFFERENT RULES. Ignorance of those rules is a hallmark of unsophistication and misunderstanding the Political, Strategic, and Tactical missions.

Your statement is predicated on the assumption that "Western Democracy" == "Civilization".

That assumption is incorrect. Which AGAIN goes to show the basic unsophistication and inadequacy of Bush's policy and its proponents.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 10:28:19 AM

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Reading The New Yorker over breakfast this morning, I came across a tidbit that might shed some light on this thread (the original topic, not the Iraq war debate).

Back in the fifties, researchers did an experiment in which they asked a group of folks to watch a ball game. Half the people were fans of Team A; the others were fans of Team B. Both groups were asked to pay attention to how many fouls Team A committed. After the game, the Team B spectators reported twice the number of fouls as the Team A fans.

So maybe we're all, on either side of the aisle, just sharper observers of the other team.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 11/17/2007 10:33:03 AM >

_____________________________

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it's never enough to keep up.

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(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 10:39:38 AM

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Samboct. Thank you for perfectly illustrating the Bathos you talk about. consider what you wrote.

"The logic of the liberals (and most others) is quite simple.

1) GWB claimed that there were WMD in Iraq that posed a grave threat to the safety of the USA.
2) We invaded a sovereign nation as a preemptive strike under the pronouncement that our security was at stake.
3) No WMD were found.

Hence, our original assertion was in error- and therefore the invasion was in error as well. QED. "

But the thing you are ignoring, much like the color of the sky, is that Bush sent a resolution to congress giving the reasons. The congress approved it. You can read the whole text of the
"Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq "

here... http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

here are a few excerpts that are non wmd related

Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;

Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;

Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of American citizens;

To say that possession of WMD was the sole reason is as silly as saying the sky is green. Yet some people continue to argue it.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 10:42:31 AM

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farg, what violation of the process? The procedure for the cabinet not being approved by the COR is part of the process, and the only violation is the time limits. That is like saying a cabinte nominee not being approved by the Senate in the USA is a constitutional violation. You apperantly have as much trouble grasping the Iraqi Consitution, as you do the US one.

(in reply to luckydog1)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 10:49:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

farg, what violation of the process? The procedure for the cabinet not being approved by the COR is part of the process, and the only violation is the time limits. That is like saying a cabinte nominee not being approved by the Senate in the USA is a constitutional violation. You apperantly have as much trouble grasping the Iraqi Consitution, as you do the US one.

No, it isn't the same as Senate approval of a nominee.

They BLEW OFF several constitutionally mandated time-lines. ( and the President appointing the council to pick the next PM-designate is kinda dodgy, too. But is irrelevant given the clear violations observed. )

If you'll violate the Constitution on this point, what won't you violate. It's like being a virgin, or being pregnant.

If this passes for faithful adherence to a Constitution, it explains quite a lot about your statements and position. As long as you don't get caught REALLY breaking rules, it's ok?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 11/17/2007 10:50:14 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to luckydog1)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/17/2007 10:53:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Samboct. Thank you for perfectly illustrating the Bathos you talk about. consider what you wrote.

"The logic of the liberals (and most others) is quite simple.

1) GWB claimed that there were WMD in Iraq that posed a grave threat to the safety of the USA.
2) We invaded a sovereign nation as a preemptive strike under the pronouncement that our security was at stake.
3) No WMD were found.

Hence, our original assertion was in error- and therefore the invasion was in error as well. QED. "

But the thing you are ignoring, much like the color of the sky, is that Bush sent a resolution to congress giving the reasons. The congress approved it. You can read the whole text of the
"Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq "

here... http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

here are a few excerpts that are non wmd related

Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;

Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;

Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of American citizens;

To say that possession of WMD was the sole reason is as silly as saying the sky is green. Yet some people continue to argue it.

Thank you, Lucky. I wish I had the time to look everything like that up and post more relevant material. I have a hell of a lot going on here though, I kind of have to post and run, then post and run. Not by choice...

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to luckydog1)

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