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What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 8:40:04 AM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
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i see so many Dom and Master profiles that say s'thing like:

"All your limits will be respected."

But then say:

"I will push your boundaries."

My question is what view do Doms and Masters take of a submissive's 'hard' limits? Do They feel the type of play is out of the question, or just should be introduced slowly?

Thank You.

pinksugarsub

< Message edited by pinksugarsub -- 11/21/2007 8:41:19 AM >

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 8:48:05 AM

ctrlaltdelete

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I am not sure that boundaries ever need to be pushed under the declared intent of "okay, starting now and for the next 3 hours, we will be pushing your boundaries". Boundaries move and meander as the relationship, and the trust within it, evolves and grows.

Something that a girl may have declared a hard limit entering into the relationship, may over time and with trust become somethimg that she wants to test and challenge herself. A Dom/Master can also suggest in discussion that a hard limit be tested - it is at the sub's/slave/s discretion what comes of it.

But ultimately, an agreement or contract of sorts was formed at the beginning of a relationship that is based on the give and take that both sides are willing to provide and/or respect. If the spirit of that initial agreement evolves and changes, then it has to be mutual.

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 8:51:59 AM

RRafe

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It's often because subs tend to limit a lot of things they don't really understand-in different contexts than they imagine when setting them as such.

If I understand that a limit is set due to it being something that could do actual damage to a person-or the relationship-I'll never touch it. If it's done merely out of thinking like a "princess"-then I am likely to try and work past it.

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 9:04:04 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

It's often because subs tend to limit a lot of things they don't really understand-in different contexts than they imagine when setting them as such.

I agree. One never knows what one might be motivated to do, in the right context.

My Master did not allow me to set my own limits. He decided what they would be, and when/how they would be expanded. He would ask me questions to gauge my thinking on certain things, and my progress in my thinking. What used to be "Oh wow, I can't imagine ever doing that - you won't actually DO that, will you???" came to be, "Oh please please please can we do that?!"

Ya just never know...

(in reply to RRafe)

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 9:10:29 AM

DarkDaddyZ

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Hard Limits to me doesn't necessarily mean that I or my submissive/slave aren't interested in exploring, it only means this is a limit at the present that we may or may not explore and explore it delicately.

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 9:15:57 AM

Bloodrose88

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Joined: 10/27/2007
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I have a few hard limits. These are non-pushable. Were it to even be tried, I would be so out of the relationship, and moving across the country

However, these are things I feel very strongly about; for example, scat play, bestiality, or anything that left permanent marks on my body without my express consent.
The majority of the other things that I am afriad to do, or find kinda squicky...these are "boundaries." They are beyond what I am comfortable doing at this time. However, as a relationship grows, and I become more comfortable and confident in my submission, these may change, and things that were previously boundaries may end up being on my "Love it" category. We shall have to see

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 9:26:53 AM

daddyncherry

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i came into my relationship with 4 hard limits. (other than the obvious ones of course)...i thought that these things were set in stone as hard and so thought i wouldn't ever have to do them. my Daddy made it clear that he thought that i was just being over cautious and that the things i had on my list were things he had done with others with no problems. i still thought i wouldn't have to do them, ever.

Then after a few months of being collared i was told that the limits that i had were being ALLOWED by him until he decided that he wanted to go past them, and until he thought i could handle going past them.

By a little more than a year after being collared, 3 had been past by and two of them are now pretty common place.

Now, of course there are a bunch of things that i've never tried, and things that make me nervous and the like. These things aren't hard limits because i don't have enough understanding of them to say one way or the other and only time will tell...if they are even ever brought up at all. All i can do for those things is try them and see.

There is another limit that is allowed, and just as a matter of safety due to breast implants that are large and over the muscle, and that is no breast bondage. It's a good thing that my Daddy isn't into that anyway, but i know that as long as i have these implants, then that would not be something that is forced on me even if he was into it.

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 9:29:06 AM

DarkDaddyZ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bloodrose88

I have a few hard limits. These are non-pushable. Were it to even be tried, I would be so out of the relationship, and moving across the country
However, these are things I feel very strongly about; for example, scat play, bestiality, or anything that left permanent marks on my body without my express consent.
The majority of the other things that I am afriad to do, or find kinda squicky...these are "boundaries." They are beyond what I am comfortable doing at this time. However, as a relationship grows, and I become more comfortable and confident in my submission, these may change, and things that were previously boundaries may end up being on my "Love it" category. We shall have to see

In your definition, hard means absolutely not, not now not ever. I don't define hard limits as such. And when entering negotiation and/or a relationship I let my potential partner know that.

If I had a potential grrl who said absolutely no blood play then (besides probably not having an interest in her) I'd still know that she has no desire to dabble in that area of play. If I have a potential grrl tell me that's a hard limit, we'd discuss it and tap into that.

Z-

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"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 9:30:27 AM

mistoferin

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Guess I've never really understood the whole "push your limits" thing. A limit is exactly that to me...a limit. It means end of the line, do not go past this point, not for any reason. My limits are things that I won't do today, tomorrow, or EVER under ANY circumstances. Then again, I don't attach the word limit frivolously either and I don't use it for things that I simply may be hesitant about trying or that I just don't like.

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(in reply to pinksugarsub)

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 9:50:44 AM

soultoshare

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What defines a hard limit to me is something that would cause severe mental, emotional or physical trauma to someone, regardles of their reasoning behind said hard limit. Someone tried to use my hard limit against me as a mind f*(k, and I was so freaked out about it, I couldn't eat or sleep for 3 days....didn't help that he was out of town, and I had no way to contact him about the whole ordeal. E-mail sucks as far as true communication goes!

My hard limits are mainly the ones that are illegal, involve blood, scat, watersports, permanent markings on my body and, the one that gives me the most trouble...no woman to woman contact, PERIOD. I don't have a problem with one's sexual desires, but I know that being forced to do that would cause severe mental trauma to me. I don't ask that someone understand it, I just ask that they respect it. If they can't do that, then I'm outta there, toot-sweet!

As far as other limits, well, I know there are lots of different things out there, I'm curious about a lot of it, and as long as there was discussion beforehand, and the Dom knows what he's doing, and knows me well enough to see I'm freaking out about something he's doing, then I might give it a shot. But just springing something on me...well, he'd better be ready for the consequences, which could range from ripping out of restraints...and yes, I've done that before, to reacting violently towards certain body parts of his.

I don't know, maybe I'm just weird about it.....but that's me, like it or not.

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 9:54:50 AM

littlebitxxx

Posts: 732
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To me, a hard limit is set in stone and that's it. Ums, animals, scat, death.

"Soft limits" are pushable boundaries depending on where they are on my Ick factor scale. Watersports used to be a soft limit, no more. Levels and types of pain are soft limits that I wish to be pushed. Different situations are negotiable to different levels but all remain pushable and once they are explored are usually not a limit anymore.

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 10:01:44 AM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

It's often because subs tend to limit a lot of things they don't really understand-in different contexts than they imagine when setting them as such.

If I understand that a limit is set due to it being something that could do actual damage to a person-or the relationship-I'll never touch it. If it's done merely out of thinking like a "princess"-then I am likely to try and work past it.

I agree with this to an extent. There are things that I started out with in the lifestyle as hard limits that I laugh at now. However, some things, ums, animals, disfigurement, or things that I believe would be seriously detrimental to my physical or mental health, etc. will always be hard limits and must be respected in any relationship I am in.

It's somewhat of a given, as it would be unusual for me to enter into a relationship wherein those true hard limits were not common between the two. If I have a limit (that is not an obvious hard limit) or aversion to something that my partner desires, I will agree to try it for him, however, I think it's important to be open and communicate that he may not like the results or may need to set aside quite a bit of time for aftercare if he truly desires to explore an area I know will have serious mental or physical ramifications for me.

However, I don't really see "pushing boundaries" as necessarily a hard limit question. Pushing boundaries can be as simple as pushing one's pain limits. I desire that and enjoy it. Pushing boundaries can be something such as increasing mental challenges such as humiliation or intimidation. Again, something I enjoy. Not everyone that says "pushing boundaries" means trying to convince another to give up hard limits, although I think questioning why hard limits are hard limits is certainly acceptable for the reason Rrafe stated.

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(in reply to RRafe)

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 10:09:40 AM

Honsoku

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A 'hard' limit is just that. It means not now, not ever, you try this and I'm gone (game over man, game over!). Pushing boundaries should not be the attempted breaking of hard limits. The issue is that many people list things as hard limits that are really just current or soft limits. The difference being that soft limits can be pushed with care. On CM the overstating of hard limits is particularly prevalent as a lot of people list things as hard limits which are blatant nonsense, so I take them with a grain of salt. If a limit is something of interest, the reason(s) behind the limit will be examined to ascertain whether or not it is a 'hard' or 'soft' limit.

Pushing boundaries, on the other hand, should be taking a non-limit further than it has been taken before with that person. If no more than 10 clothespins have been tolerated by you before, the 11th would be pushing a boundary. Pushing boundaries can also be the breaking down of soft limits, as they are boundaries in their own right.

< Message edited by Honsoku -- 11/21/2007 10:21:09 AM >

(in reply to pinksugarsub)

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 10:25:11 AM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku

A 'hard' limit is just that. It means not now, not ever, you try this and I'm gone (game over man, game over!). Pushing boundaries should not be the attempted breaking of hard limits. The issue is that many people list things as hard limits that are really just current or soft limits. The difference being that soft limits can be pushed with care. On CM the overstating of hard limits is particularly prevalent as a lot of people list things as hard limits which are blatant nonsense, so I take them with a grain of salt. If a limit is something of interest, the reason(s) behind the limit will be examined to ascertain whether or not it is a 'hard' or 'soft' limit.

Pushing boundaries, on the other hand, should be taking a non-limit further than it has been taken before with that person. If no more than 10 clothespins have been tolerated by you before, the 11th would be pushing a boundary. Pushing boundaries can also be the breaking down of soft limits, as they are boundaries in their own right.

One reason I actually list "diapers" in my likes list, is to weed out women who really don't think before they set a limit as hard. I think the assumption is that it's scat play-and that's not neccesarily so. I prefer to get to know people who can think outside of the box.

And yet-almost 95% of the fem subs I see set that as a hard limit. I like open minds-they show creativity. It's definitely a lot more fun.

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 10:36:57 AM

Qithoras

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Everyone seems to be looking at the literal terminology here.

Personally if I were to write: "All your limits will be respected"

And then later add: "I will push your boundries" The two would be seperate things.

The first, meaning, while Yes I can and will respect any 'hard' limits you may have, given valid reason (Ignorance is not one) I will also be watching as our relationship progresses to see what changes have happened, what is now just a twinge of doubt compared to a chasm of fear.

The second, the pushing of boundries, in my eyes refers to how she sees herself as a person, the world around her. That is something I would push, hard if necessary. Continual groth is part of life. I see alot of people with fixed mentalities, set on "That's the way it's always been done" or "I wasn't taught any different". That's existence, it isn't life.

Kind of got off topic and off track, but it felt good to write.

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 11:03:32 AM

astarri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

It's often because subs tend to limit a lot of things they don't really understand-in different contexts than they imagine when setting them as such.

If I understand that a limit is set due to it being something that could do actual damage to a person-or the relationship-I'll never touch it. If it's done merely out of thinking like a "princess"-then I am likely to try and work past it.

I agree with this so heartily. I have soft limits which can be pushed and hard limits that would cause me serious harm physically or mentally.

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 16

RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 12:00:57 PM

MasterFireMaam

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Hard limits are those that will cause psychological, emotional or spiritual damage. Sometimes, we work through the issues that make them such and they become less hard. Sometimes we don't.

Having said that, my girl has a harm list. These are equivalent to what others call hard limits. It doesn't, however, mean that I can't do them. I means that if I do them, I then take repsonsibility for having a damaged slave. I can do as I wish...but there are consequences.

Master Fire

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 12:09:28 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

I means that if I do them, I then take repsonsibility for having a damaged slave. I can do as I wish...but there are consequences.

Master Fire

I wrote something in a post recently that this reminded me of. My Master asked me how I felt about doing a certain thing that was disturbing to me. It was something not on any "obvious limits list" that we hear so much about. It was not something I had ever considered would come my way (nor did he, but it came up so it needed to be addressed). My response was that of course I would do it, but I would need his help recovering from it, along with therapy. He appreciated my honesty and chose not to have me do it.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 12:13:04 PM

MasterJBK

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hard means out of the question.

but doms have every right to ask again if they can do that. and if it is still hard then it is still out of the question. we have had this discussion on here before a lot. on the other hand if a hard limit becomes a soft limit. the dom should approach it safely and slowly.

some slaves say that some stuff a hard limits, but after the put their lifes in your hands some hard limits become soft to an extent. this is a test to see how far you go. and i am just talking about personal experience.

< Message edited by MasterJBK -- 11/21/2007 12:20:17 PM >

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/21/2007 12:22:34 PM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

I means that if I do them, I then take repsonsibility for having a damaged slave. I can do as I wish...but there are consequences.

Master Fire

I wrote something in a post recently that this reminded me of. My Master asked me how I felt about doing a certain thing that was disturbing to me. It was something not on any "obvious limits list" that we hear so much about. It was not something I had ever considered would come my way (nor did he, but it came up so it needed to be addressed). My response was that of course I would do it, but I would need his help recovering from it, along with therapy. He appreciated my honesty and chose not to have me do it.

Nodding.......which is why Knowing an owners limits are important to someone desiring to be property-and just how much they value what they have.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

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