RE: open for response until 7am est

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camille65 -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 7:51:38 AM)
It wouldn't matter if I was a morning person or not, I think that is a cop out especially given that there had been 9 hours of sleep already.I really can't imagine reacting like that.. but then I 'am' a morning person lol. Seriously, it didn't sound like you were asking her to do anything intricate or complex during the wee hours of the morning. It sounds to me as though she simply doesn't feel like obeying and uses the morning person bit as her excuse.I would be annoyed and I think that it really needs to be discussed. Let her know it is unacceptable but listen to her, she may have had a genuine reason beyond not being a morning person even tho I'm having a hard time imagining one.

SimplyMichael -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 7:52:48 AM)
Punishment is the worst way to train the behaviors you want, even with dogs and it works less well on humans. Forcing someone to do something they find hard/difficult/etc and expecting perfect response out of the gate is silly. YOU have to develop the skills to train them to either enjoy it (which you failed to do) or you need to train them to develop (meaning it doesn't happen day one) to find some place where despite not wanting to do something they can go through the motions (ie lie there, suck you off, or whatever you were going to do) and again you failed to do that. The fault lies not with her but with you. Unless you bought her at the "fully trained TPE slave store" she is untrained and is waiting for a skilled master to train her...

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 8:15:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic I look at it this way..If I had a dog and I woke up at 3am and decided to take my dog out for a run, what would happen? The dog would wake up, wag his/her little tail and happily run alongside me. If it barked at me every time I woke it up, or attempted to play fetch, I wouldn't have much incentive to keep the dog, would I? Why then, should the situation differ to such an extreme degree with my puppyslut? Well then, according to this, what to do is clear. Dump the bitch. But I find this statement to be very dependent on how well you've trained the dog and as such, reflects on your ability to master at all. I, myself would put up with such actions. By letting your dog do what it wants, your telling it that it is in charge. Not you. It then starts to do things that it wants to do instead of what you want it to do. Do you have to beat the dog to get it to obey? No. You can, instead, use positive reinforcement to get it to comply. In example: if it gets up with you in the morning, tell her "Good dog." and give her a treat. If she doesn't, tell her "Bad dog." and put her on the floor to sleep. Or ignore her. Make it uncomfortable to be a bad dog.

Level -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 8:17:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic We have chosen a TPE lifestyle Not trying to be rude, but it sounds like someone forgot to tell her that. We all fail, but if she keeps failing over and over....... you need to figure out why. And if it's worth the trouble. As for worrying about noise and her dad....... doesn't sound like she cared, pitching a fit, so, I wouldn't have, either, while I was throwing her out of the room.

TwiztdErotic -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 9:11:02 AM)
It seems many of you have very different views on the topic, which is expected. However, I can't hope to respond to everyone's post at once. Instead, I will offer a general explanation of the situation. As I've stated previously, the time of day plays no factor in her reaction. Again, similar fits have been thrown no matter the time nor the task. This occurs outside of D/s and outside of myself, as well. As far as I can gather, she's been like this for her entire life..if she doesn't like something, she flips out. Why someone like this would choose to get involved in a TPE relationship is beyond me..but alas, she has. Obviously the easiest and perhaps the best thing to do is simply to release her and move on. I've already done it once, doing it again would not be a problem. My question, then, is this; is there anything else I can do, short of becoming an alchemist, to turn this piece of shit into gold or is it really as futile as it seems? she expresses a clear desire to serve me, but, the problem, as I see it, is that she lacks the mental stability to do so. Therapy is needed, without a doubt , and the process has already been set in motion. I'm just wondering whether or not anyone has had a similar experience and been able to get a worthwhile slave out of someone who seemed so hopeless.

Level -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 9:20:24 AM)
*If she is (or you think she is) an insane piece of shit, why would you want* to keep at it?**

TwiztdErotic -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 9:32:00 AM)
because, that's only a part of who she is. there's much about her that I do enjoy..and quite honestly, I'm not sure she can survive without me. she's told me in the past, on several occasions, that if it wasn't for me she'd probably be dead. I have made a great deal of progress with her..but these little outbursts..this unacceptable behavior, is something I haven't found a solution for. when a life may be on the line, things get a little more complicated. it's a fine line to walk between being a Dom and a decent human being. Perhaps releasing her and maintaining contact, offering guidance and support from a distance would be appropriate.

KatyLied -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 9:35:39 AM)
quote: I'm not sure she can survive without me. she's told me in the past, on several occasions, that if it wasn't for me she'd probably be dead. Knight in shining armor rescuer kink alert! Have you been with her during her entire life? How did she survive without you? You really enjoy being topped from the bottom.

camille65 -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 9:36:31 AM)
Twiztd, I sent you mail on the other side.

AquaticSub -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 9:36:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic So it's 5AM and I'm wide awake. I decide to wake puppy up for a little early morning service. Her reaction, quite simply, is unacceptable. Due to situational constraints, corporal punishment is not an option at such an early hour. (we live in neighboring states and are at her apartment because she's got to work in the morning. her father, for some unknown reason, is asleep on the couch just outside the door.) In an effort to avoid making too much noise, I decide to place her on her knees facing the corner in the hopes that she'll soon realize her mistakes and attempt to make amends. This doesn't happen, of course and soon she's throwing a little fit about being woken up. (she's never been a morning person) Not wanting the situation to escalate, because of potential noise and the father outside the door, I decide to send her back to bed and tell her that she's displeased me and will be expected to make it up to me later. this stupid, stupid puppy has the balls to say 'you better not wake me up at 8am' my response, quite naturally, is 'ok, I'll see you at 7, then.' Was this a mistake on my part? Normally, I'd just take her at this point, regardless of her protests and her attitude would be dealt with. After all, her purpose is to please me, which certainly doesn't include throwing a fit about being woken up. We've found ourselves in similar situations before and afterwards she breaks down and apologizes for the way she acted and expects that to be sufficient. This is a trend I wish to end, so..I'm looking for any advice that may lead to a solution. Keep in mind, noise will have to be a factor. Although I could wake her up with a gag.. Your thoughts? If you know she isn't a morning person... why are you doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? Some people consider that to be a sign of insanity. You might be better served to find a girl who is a morning person or who requires less sleep. My job is serve Valyraen. Part of his job is knowing what I can and can not do cheerfully at particular times of the day. I'm curious as to exactly how you decided to wake her up. I am not a morning person. 9 hours of sleep means nothing to me - I don't feel rested until I hit the 10 or 11 hour mark. I am the sort of not-morning person who doesn't even remember who he is and that he is my owner until about 15 minutes after the alarm goes off. Valyraen knows this and he knows my desire to serve once awake and alive again. Because of this, if he has to wake me suddenly, he gives me 15-30 minutes to grumble under my breath, splash my face with cold water or just sit bleary-eyed for my brain to process what is going on. If he wants to wake me for sexual service, he will employ a much more subtle and pleasent approach that wakes me up slowly and wakes me up in a much more pleasent frame of mind. He will slip into bed next to me and start foreplay, gently, while I am still asleep. I wake up happy and eager to please. Even a loving dog will yelp if you kick it awake.

SmokingGun82 -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 9:38:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic Obviously the easiest and perhaps the best thing to do is simply to release her and move on. I've already done it once, doing it again would not be a problem. she expresses a clear desire to serve me, but, the problem, as I see it, is that she lacks the mental stability to do so. Therapy is needed, without a doubt , and the process has already been set in motion. Snipped for brevity. First of all, I'd argue you can't release her, since you obviously don't have her to start with. The fact that she never obeys anything you say, etcetera... you don't have her to release. Leaving the semantics aside, you say it wouldn't be a problem- then do it already, and quit whining that she won't listen. Second, no, she doesn't express a clear desire to serve you. She might say she wants to, say she will, but actions are what matters- and obviously her desires are to sleep late and do whatever she wants. That's fine, those are some of my desires as well... which is why I'd make a terrible slave. You two probably aren't compatable, and it's just mean to both of you to keep trying. Finally, somehow I doubt a therapist is going to tell her to listen to you completely and act as a mindless slave. It just seems unlikely to me. I've dated/loved/etcetera some damned crazy chicks in my time, and I have to say that, barring some ridiculous information you've left out, you're just dealing with someone who doesn't want to submit to you. That'll happen- cut losses, move on. It doesn't make you a bad person/dom/master/etcetera, and it doesn't automatically make her insane/broken/whatever. I'm sure there's more to this story- but with what you've given us, that's what I've got.

sunlitflames -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 9:49:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic While I do know that she is not a morning person, I do expect her to be able to put her personal preferences aside and do what I am asking of her, at any hour. so your assumption is that her being a morning person is a personal preference? on the off chance it might just be a mere habit.... retraining takes time and patience... (and as someone else mentioned...punishment is the least effective method) and to be effective requires her to be on board with being willing and able to service you at any hour.... even if she has to be at work that day.

breatheasone -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 10:02:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Maya2001 They say absense makes the heart grow fonder....... what about a period of no contact ? That kind of "punishment" would be a deal breaker for me...in my humble opinion its beyond cruel.

TwiztdErotic -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 10:05:40 AM)
...and so begin the flame wars. Sorry folks, but I've already decided how to handle this situation. continuing to post here is pointless.

daddyncherry -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 10:06:33 AM)
i think she was acting totally inappropriately for a slave....if that is what she is expected to be. i would kill or die (not literally) to be woken for service like that (but it is one of my big kinks)... And as for safeword..this wouldn't be an instance that would be a matter of safety and from what i understand about safewords from those who use them....The Master assesses the situation and decides if it is a matter of safety or if someone is just trying to manipulate. Soooo this wouldn't be something i would think could be safeworded out of. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Simply, if she didn't want to and he did want her to then she should've done as he wanted if not, where is the submission? On her terms? Ummm NO.

AquaticSub -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 10:07:44 AM)
Flaming? Where? People have just disagreed with you and pointed out different ways you might be able to get the result you want.

AquaticSub -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 10:08:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddyncherry i think she was acting totally inappropriately for a slave....if that is what she is expected to be. Well he did call her a puppy in the OP. Did he ever say exactly what she is, a puppy or a slave?

sexyred1 -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 10:23:05 AM)
who cares? I hope her Dad beat the crap out of him.

Level -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 11:26:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic because, that's only a part of who she is. there's much about her that I do enjoy..and quite honestly, I'm not sure she can survive without me. she's told me in the past, on several occasions, that if it wasn't for me she'd probably be dead. I have made a great deal of progress with her..but these little outbursts..this unacceptable behavior, is something I haven't found a solution for. when a life may be on the line, things get a little more complicated. it's a fine line to walk between being a Dom and a decent human being. Perhaps releasing her and maintaining contact, offering guidance and support from a distance would be appropriate. If it is truly "unacceptable", then releasing her may be best indeed. You have to know exactly what you want, what you have, and if it's good enough for you. If it isn't, then you have to determine if it is fixable. Sometimes people are fixable, often not. I personally would not choose to be in a relationship with someone with stability issues.

daddyncherry -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/25/2007 11:43:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: daddyncherry i think she was acting totally inappropriately for a slave....if that is what she is expected to be. Well he did call her a puppy in the OP. Did he ever say exactly what she is, a puppy or a slave? He did mention that their's was supposed to be a TPE relationship....so maybe he desires a puppy slave (just a guess)

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