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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 12:24:11 AM

Estring

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 12:28:05 AM

MissMagnolia

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Yes, asking if tying her down and gagging her will change her behaviour.

Very good.

Let's do away with specialist help. God knows, you're an expert in these matters. 2 whole years with a woman with psychiatric illnesses. You need no help whatsoever, do you?

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 12:28:57 AM

TwiztdErotic

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Yes, I do know codependency rather well. To be quite honest as to why I am drawn to women with such issues, I have dealt with my fair share of issues myself. I grew up a rather lonely child, much like an orphan with no father and no real mother to speak of, because of this I can't help but to be compassionate towards others who I see struggling with their own problems when nobody else seems to care.

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 12:32:57 AM

TwiztdErotic

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Magnolia, please read the OP again. it clearly states that she would still be seeking professional help because she needs it. I was merely wondering whether or not the restrain would offer a little help in the D/s setting. clearly I was concerned about whether or not it would do more damage than good, it was simply a curiosity.

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 12:34:12 AM

Kalista07

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic

Yes, I do know codependency rather well. To be quite honest as to why I am drawn to women with such issues, I have dealt with my fair share of issues myself. I grew up a rather lonely child, much like an orphan with no father and no real mother to speak of, because of this I can't help but to be compassionate towards others who I see struggling with their own problems when nobody else seems to care.

Twiztd,
The statement i bolded is what frankly makes and keeps You sick. And in fact, it's probably what makes You the most dangerous. i have little pity or understanding for someone who knows what their 'issues' are, and yet makes excuses for them...Which, in my point of view, is what You did here...And listen, please do not pull the 'childhood' card out on me...Because i can not only play that game but i can win that game......
You seriously need to get some kind of counseling...Before it ends up being court mandated...Because trust me, eventually keep on the path You are on, and it will.
Kali

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 12:37:13 AM

TwiztdErotic

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quote:

Twiztd,
The statement i bolded is what frankly makes and keeps You sick. And in fact, it's probably what makes You the most dangerous. i have little pity or understanding for someone who knows what their 'issues' are, and yet makes excuses for them...Which, in my point of view, is what You did here...And listen, please do not pull the 'childhood' card out on me...Because i can not only play that game but i can win that game......
You seriously need to get some kind of counseling...Before it ends up being court mandated...Because trust me, eventually keep on the path You are on, and it will.
Kali

I'll be honest, this post totally confuses the shit out of me. Compassion makes me sick? would you care to qualify that?

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 12:45:05 AM

Kalista07

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TwiztdErotic,
Sure, i'll qualify that...What i mean is it's great to want to help people...i have that desire and i try and do that every day...i believe i was put on this earth to fit myself to be of service to God and my fellow man.... However, anything taken to an extreme is unhealthy..... i think the fact that You can not see how much You are in fact harming this woman by Your 'acts of kindness' by virtue of itself is in fact part of the problem. i think that when You become so hell bent on helping a person that You end up doing the work for them (or trying) it becomes dangerous, not only for You but for them...i know this from personal experience.....
Kali

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 1:01:37 AM

TwiztdErotic

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quote:

i think the fact that You can not see how much You are in fact harming this woman by Your 'acts of kindness' by virtue of itself is in fact part of the problem.

Alright, I can admit that as of very recently I haven't done a whole lot to help her, this is something that was addressed in the other thread and to bring it up again would just be redundant. However, considering the fact that when I met her she was heavily into drugs and was hell bent on pursuing self destruction and her own downward spiral til death..and now, at the worst, she might have a few drinks once or twice a month, stays away from any other controlled substance, is now focused on improving herself for her own good and has been able to work through her clusterfuck of thoughts and emotions enough to realize that she's probably bi polar and needs to seek professional help; I have a hard time believing I've done more harm than good with her. Understand that this girl is very grateful to have me in her life, so much so that she'd probably willingly agree to the whole bound and gagged thing, regardless of what it might do to her emotionally, just because I asked her to. Which is another reason I came here to ask about it, rather than just asking her.

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 1:03:26 AM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic

quote:

i think the fact that You can not see how much You are in fact harming this woman by Your 'acts of kindness' by virtue of itself is in fact part of the problem.

Alright, I can admit that as of very recently I haven't done a whole lot to help her, this is something that was addressed in the other thread and to bring it up again would just be redundant. However, considering the fact that when I met her she was heavily into drugs and was hell bent on pursuing self destruction and her own downward spiral til death..and now, at the worst, she might have a few drinks once or twice a month, stays away from any other controlled substance, is now focused on improving herself for her own good and has been able to work through her clusterfuck of thoughts and emotions enough to realize that she's probably bi polar and needs to seek professional help; I have a hard time believing I've done more harm than good with her. Understand that this girl is very grateful to have me in her life, so much so that she'd probably willingly agree to the whole bound and gagged thing, regardless of what it might do to her emotionally, just because I asked her to. Which is another reason I came here to ask about it, rather than just asking her.

Honestly, your attitude of constantly slamming her here in a public forum suggests you don't have the maturity to deal with this. Let her go to get real help. You can't do it, trust me.

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 1:06:06 AM

TwiztdErotic

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slamming her here? I'm being honest. are you really going to get on my ass about honesty?

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 1:09:23 AM

laurell3

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I seem to recall a thread wherein you called her I believe a psychotic piece of shit and nowhere in that thread did you mention her mental disorder and proceeded to talk about how out of control she is and how hard it was on YOU. Clue in bud, this ain't about you and you cannot do it. So yes, I am going to get on you. There's a difference between honesty and repeatedly slamming this poor girl over and over in public, which you have done repeatedly. You are part of the problem not the solution. Walk away and stop adding to her plate, it is full already.

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 1:14:31 AM

Kalista07

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic
Alright, I can admit that as of very recently I haven't done a whole lot to help her, this is something that was addressed in the other thread and to bring it up again would just be redundant. However, considering the fact that when I met her she was heavily into drugs and was hell bent on pursuing self destruction and her own downward spiral til death..and now, at the worst, she might have a few drinks once or twice a month, stays away from any other controlled substance, is now focused on improving herself for her own good and has been able to work through her clusterfuck of thoughts and emotions enough to realize that she's probably bi polar and needs to seek professional help; I have a hard time believing I've done more harm than good with her. Understand that this girl is very grateful to have me in her life, so much so that she'd probably willingly agree to the whole bound and gagged thing, regardless of what it might do to her emotionally, just because I asked her to. Which is another reason I came here to ask about it, rather than just asking her.

Okay, i am seriously going to bed after i click ok this time............At any rate...i think You are missing the forest for the trees...She's doing these things FOR You...Not for herself...What happens when You are eliminated from the picture? What happens when You get hit by a bus tomorrow or get cancer and die?? Do You have any idea where she'll be then?? i do....If she's lucky she'll be in a hospital somewhere...More than likely, however she'll be in a morgue somewhere...i don't doubt she'd do anything You asked her to....That doesn't impress me, in fact it saddens me.... i'm not sure how else to explain this to You, and i hate wasting my time on people that aren't capable or willing of listening....However, after i had taken 29 pills which were to slow down Your heart, spent 36 hours on my garage floor (see...i had a back up plan) and still freaking lived....only THEN did i become willing to do the work for myself...And frankly, even then i'm not sure it was for me as much as it was to try and keep this other person in my life......
i know i'm sick,
Kali

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 1:18:22 AM

laurell3

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Kali,
You were ill, you are not "sick" and you are doing what you can to take care of yourself and are better for it. That's all any of us can do.

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 1:19:55 AM

TwiztdErotic

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quote:

I seem to recall a thread wherein you called her I believe a psychotic piece of shit and nowhere in that thread did you mention her mental disorder and proceeded to talk about how out of control she is and how hard it was on YOU. Clue in bud, this ain't about you and you cannot do it. So yes, I am going to get on you. There's a difference between honesty and repeatedly slamming this poor girl over and over in public, which you have done repeatedly. You are part of the problem not the solution. Walk away and stop adding to her plate, it is full already.

As far as I remember, although it's entirely possible that I am wrong, the only instance where she was referred to as a piece of shit was when I said 'Is there anything I can do, short of becoming an alchemist, to turn this piece of shit into gold?" While it may have been a poor choice of words, it was MOSTLY meant in a metaphoric manner. Was I a little bit frustrated with her at the time, did I let my emotions get me a little carried away? Absolutely. Is it the end of the world? No.

As for there being no mention of her mental disorder..it wasn't made fully clear to me, until the thread had hit like 8 pages, the extend to which she suffered with this. she had never told me about it before, I had no idea that she had a chemical imbalance or that when she'd have a little episode that she was actually blacking out. should I have known? perhaps..but there's no sense living in the past. the fact is, I didn't. As soon as this was made clear to me, the first thing I did is make arrangements to get her professional help.

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 1:31:20 AM

subspace08

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I honestly think her problems go deeper then a chemical imbalance but medication might help some

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 1:48:46 AM

eyesopened

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Any trained lifeguard will tell you that you cannot save a person who is intent on drowning. Your friend needs a psychiatrist, not just a therapist and certainly not a GP. You are making diagnosis based on your own? Chemincal inbalances in the brain are tricky as for the most part the only way to definitively know which chemicals are out of balance is through autopsy OR by a medical specialist (psychiatrist) who has studied this in depth. Most folks would choose the latter.

my own daughter was diagnosed with clinical depression. Her symptoms, because she was a teen were different than what the television commericals would have one believe. Assuming bipolar and medicating for that can cause people with depression to harm themselves or others. Treating for depression can harm a bipolar. It's not unlike non-evasive brain surgery. So.... who would you choose to perform brain surgery? Even the best trained RN would decline. Even the best trained cardioligist would decline. The girl needs to see a psychiatrist. Period.

Bound and gagged???? Do a little research on the "Mental Hospitals" of yore... they tried it already along with lots of other torture and none of it worked. Have you dug the snake pit yet?

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 2:21:38 AM

foreverminx

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" don't have any psychiatric experience..however, I do have about two years experience with a woman who was diagnosed with BPD, PTSD, Bi Polar and was manic depressant. she happened to be my first slave..it seems I've got a thing for the mentally unstable. "

The first thing that pops into my head is....why the hell are you asking us?? You've just said you have been a similar relationship before, then you should know what to expect and what could possibly work. I have read the previous posts and unless I missed one I didn't see where you said she was medically diagnosed with any of the above. How about you do that first?
If you are serious about having a relationship with this woman, get off the internet and go and talk to professionals. Screw the Ds, bdms or whatever else floats your boat until you can get settled. If she does have any of the conditions you mentioned, it's a life thing... nothing to do with bdsm.

" So, I'm wondering..If I was to keep her gagged and bound, so that she physically could not freak out as she is so prone to doing, and I found little ways to reward her or otherwise show her that she's pleased me by following my orders without a fuss (even though she physically couldn't put up a fuss) would this help to bring about a change in her behavior?"

I'm normal, I think, and even this would piss me off if the situation wasn't right. Why do you have to gag her and bind her just to show her she has pleased you??

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 7:18:36 AM

SimplyMichael

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People, the bottom line is this guy IS trying to figure out what to do, he HAS admitted to making mistakes, he IS trying to grow. Yeah he isn't doing perfect a perfect job but few of us are either.

I have a lot of sympathy because I WAS this kid but it took me almost two decades more than it is taking him to start asking these questions, you should really lay off with the "what an asshole line"!

Twisted,
Two main points, if you find yourself in the same situation (dating women with the same sort of issues) it might be a pattern, three times and it IS a pattern. YOU have issues which cause you to seek out and find as mates women with the issues this one does. You can see their issues clearly I am sure, so could I. What you cannot see are YOUR issues and you pick women that mask yours. Just like alcoholics pick drunks who are worse off than they are so they don't feel so bad.

The best way to help this woman is go to therapy yourself to find out why YOU get into these relationships with these sorts of women.

The reason I was so drawn to D/s was because I was a control freak but it was a mask for a chaotic and disorganized life. I find it pleasurable to "fix" others because it is FAR easier than fixing myself! Until I started working on being a better person and fixing ME, I couldn't have a calm nurting and drama free relationship. It was hard work, I destroyed my relationship with a rather wonderful submissive with whom I had an amazing connection. We did the same sort of "oh my god we are amazing" then "you fucking crazy nutcase" dance for three plus years.

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 7:37:06 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic

For those of you already familiar with my situation, I pose this question to you.

I've done much thinking today and I've determined that puppy and I click on far too many levels outside of the M/s dynamic to just discard her due to something she doesn't have a whole lot of control over. So, I'm wondering..If I was to keep her gagged and bound, so that she physically could not freak out as she is so prone to doing, and I found little ways to reward her or otherwise show her that she's pleased me by following my orders without a fuss (even though she physically couldn't put up a fuss) would this help to bring about a change in her behavior? or would this possibly have even more damaging effects? She would still be seeing a therapist, as it doesn't improve her ability to maintain control of herself, which I believe she needs. But, it does limit her ability to totally lose control, which would be an acceptable fix for the time being. What do you think?

If you're not familiar with the situation, grab yourself a snack and take a look through the 7am thread.

Binding her and gagging her is only going to keep her in control physically. Mentally she could all over the place and you simply can not control that with physical bondage. I would not at all suggest you look into mental bondage either. Being rewarded for something I didn't actually do wouldn't mean much to me either.

It seems to me that you want to take an aggressive approach with this, as you have already stated a distaste for passive behavior. But I really don't think it is your place to behave aggressively in her struggles with these issues. These are battles that she has to fight and the most you can do is to support her, love her, and be there for her. You just can not fight them for her and your attempts will make it harder on her in the long run.

If you do insist on trying to be an at home therapist, something I think is a completely awful idea since you lack the education and training for it, have her find a kink-friendly therapist that she likes and trusts. Then ask them what they think of your plans and follow their instructions regarding them, even if it is to ditch the idea.

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RE: Would/could this be effective? - 11/29/2007 7:38:31 AM

TwiztdErotic

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To reiterate, yet again, she will be receiving professional help. Nowhere in this thread have I said that I don't feel she needs it.

My question was quite simple; could this possibly work or would it cause more harm than good? I ask this question because I don't know the answer. To me, it has the potential to go either way.

quote:

Why do you have to gag her and bind her just to show her she has pleased you??

I don't. What I do need is for her to not freak out when she's given a task to complete. I can't begin to bring about any change in her behavior if she loses all control of herself every time she's asked to do something. This can be anything, from the most extreme to the simplest of things.
Example: If we are in a dark room and I ask her to find an object in the room, she freaks out and goes off about how she can't find it because it's dark. she won't even make an attempt at finding it, she'll just settle on the idea that she can't because it's dark..because it won't be the easiest thing in the world. is this really such a difficult task? certainly not..but, this has happened with her before. Now, say she was bound and gagged and I asked her to complete this very same task. At first, she wouldn't do a damn thing..and I wouldn't pay an ounce of attention to her until she began to make an effort. Once she began to search for the object, I would call her a good girl and verbally walk her through the steps she might take to complete the task. I can't do this at all if she freaks out the entire time.

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