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RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 8:58:38 AM

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it is not that she, nor you, cannot apply the word slave to yourselves, it is that you refuse to accept that there is another definition of the word....putting "to me" before a statement does not make it any less deragatory to those who do use an alternative definition for the word, here let me illustrate: to you, i am not a real and true slave because i do consent to my slavery, and my family does not mourn me and knows what happens to me....

the statement, "i cannot call myself a slave because of what is being done to women and girls nonconsensually," is not offensive... the statement, "to me, a slavery is involuntary and terrible," is offensive...no matter how you dress it...sorry...

chelle

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:08:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

it is not that she, nor you, cannot apply the word slave to yourselves, it is that you refuse to accept that there is another definition of the word....putting "to me" before a statement does not make it any less deragatory to those who do use an alternative definition for the word, here let me illustrate: to you, i am not a real and true slave because i do consent to my slavery, and my family does not mourn me and knows what happens to me....

the statement, "i cannot call myself a slave because of what is being done to women and girls nonconsensually," is not offensive... the statement, "to me, a slavery is involuntary and terrible," is offensive...no matter how you dress it...sorry...

chelle

Tell me, where did I refuse to accept there is another defination?

If you read this thread you will see that I even use the term to refer to myself. I said I am uncomfortable with the term, but I still find it useful. I find the term "real slave" amusing in these forums because I do feel the only real slave is the one who did not have a choice in the matter. Anyone else can legally leave so when I see people trying so hard to copy historical slavery, I just laugh. And sometimes it bothers me because I feel we forget what people actually suffer every day, mostly overlooked. Words have power in society, making the term slave a beautiful thing could cause people to forget how much suffering is involved in actual and illegal slavery - particularly since the issue is alive and well today and nobody really cares. Not saying it will... but it might.

That's how I feel and my feeling on the matters are just as valid as yours. But what you are saying is that anyone who doesn't agree with you about this issue shouldn't post their opinion. That's pretty damn insulting too. Our opinions are valid, just as much as yours. If you feel insulted, skip the post the same way someone enjoys diaper play will skip a post saying "I just can't see it as anything other than gross". Or would you report that to TOS as insulting as well?

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/3/2007 9:09:43 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to chellekitty)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:13:24 AM

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quote:

it is not that she, nor you, cannot apply the word slave to yourselves, it is that you refuse to accept that there is another definition of the word....

Perhaps you should instead be asking yourself why it matters so much to YOU that THEY accept YOUR definition.

I have very strict definitions of what a slave means to me and to those who I am in relationships with; both intimate and friendly off the boards. It's a definition that I do not bring up often on this side because of the distaste it leaves in the mouths of others. That however, does not mean that I am so close-minded about the thoughts and idea's of others that I can not see past my own little world.

Stop letting your emotions rule and instead try thinking objectively for a change.

Personally, YOUR idea of slavery offends MY IDEA OF SLAVERY...but I would never think to come here and say that your posting of your own idea is offensive towards mine; unless of course you were trying to state that your way is the only way; and that all others were untrue or fantasy based.

Get your head out of your ass for a change.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to chellekitty)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:18:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty
this lifestyle does not use "standard" definitions for many words, slave is one of them...

According to Webster one of the definitions of a slave is "one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence". This is the definition that is used in my relationship and one I see used in other relationships. Nothing in this definition explains how the person got there, whether it was involuntary or not.

I disagree that people in the lifestyle use a non-standard definition of slavery. Like you, I am most fulfilled in my intimate relationship when I am completely subservient to his authority, i.e. his slave.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to chellekitty)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:20:34 AM

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i actually find the words real and true completely useless in this lifestyle and especially on these boards, because you will inevitably offend someone, as you did me, real and true place a value judgement on someone or something, value by definition is either negative or positive, it cannot be nuetral, when a person does not fit in the box that you have defined as real and true then that person is offended because you have then placed a negative value judgement on them....thus i was offended....its human nature...you were offended in the same token by my comment because you agreed with OsideGirl....that being said, i will agree to disagree...
i am a real slave, even though you don't believe i can exist because i am not a real slave in the historical sense...i am beaten because i enjoy it though people don't believe i can because you can only be beaten in a bad way...i could go on but i am gonna go eat my bagle now...

take care
chelle

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:23:11 AM

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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shootingstar67

Slaves are owned. Submissives are not. If you are a submissive who is owned you are a "slave"

If you are owned you are property. You are human chattel. You are a slave.

Or, a pet. I guess. A human pet.

The hell I am. I have dead cousins buried in mass graves in Nazi death camps. They were slaves. I am an owned submissive.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to shootingstar67)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:26:30 AM

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

i actually find the words real and true completely useless in this lifestyle and especially on these boards, because you will inevitably offend someone, as you did me, real and true place a value judgement on someone or something, value by definition is either negative or positive, it cannot be nuetral, when a person does not fit in the box that you have defined as real and true then that person is offended because you have then placed a negative value judgement on them....thus i was offended....its human nature...you were offended in the same token by my comment because you agreed with OsideGirl....that being said, i will agree to disagree...

No Chelle, I was not offended. I really don't care where you stand on this issue because I have the definations that fit for me and my relationship. I believe the term slave does have a place in this lifestyle. However, I do think the term "real slave" doesn't because of my defination of what a real slave is. If it offends you, it is no more offensive than a male submissive upon reading how someone thinks they are weak and pathetic, an opinion people are allowed to share here, have done so before and will continue to. Or that a real master never breaks his toys and therefore will never break his girl's bones on purpose. Or that real slaves never work. Or own cars. Or that real masters never keep their slaves away from their hobbies. Or that real masters whore their slaves out. Or that real masters would never whore their slaves out. Or that submissives are worth less than slaves.

In this world, it is a given that there will be many conflicting ideas.

quote:

i am a real slave, even though you don't believe i can exist because i am not a real slave in the historical sense...i am beaten because i enjoy it though people don't believe i can because you can only be beaten in a bad way...i could go on but i am gonna go eat my bagle now...

take care
chelle

I believe you exist. I believe you enjoy being beaten but that doesn't mean anything to me regarding your d/s or m/s status. I know people who enjoy being beaten who aren't slaves, submissives, pets or anything in this lifestyle. They just enjoy being beaten. Your defination simply doesn't fit mine.

That doesn't make either of them invalid, nor unworthy of being posted here.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/3/2007 9:29:08 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to chellekitty)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:27:15 AM

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shootingstar67

slaves are owned. Submissives are not. If you are a submissive who is owned you are a "slave"

If you are owned you are property. You are human chattel. You are a slave.

Or, a pet. I guess. A human pet.

Really? And where did you get this info from?

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 12/3/2007 9:29:20 AM >

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Sir Pain's pain slut

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RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:35:53 AM

daize

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okay where is the original thread for this reply"how can a sub be owned by more than one Dom"? that why i came in this forum. to get some information or someone's outlook on the thread.I wasn't looking for opinions of what a slave is or what others think they are not.

(in reply to chellekitty)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:38:05 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

No, I'm not a slave. To me, slavery is something involuntary and terrible. Slaves are the girls that are smuggled over the border to be prostituted out and fear for their lives on a daily basis, among other examples. I will not give my happiness the same name as their suffering.

How dare you try to define my life for me.

to me slavery is the only way i can be content (happiness comes and goes)...i will defend your right to call yourself whatever you and your owner wish to, but please do not post such broad and missinformed definitions...this lifestyle does not use "standard" definitions for many words, slave is one of them...

BDSM does use standard definitions. Take or leave them. But don't feel anyone has the ability to define other peoples relationships. Oside made the point personal to her. Offensive or not to anyone - it was personal to her.

However - subspace and shootingstar suggested in their inital posts that no one can be a submissive and be owned. That's not personal - that is defining everyone else. That is bullshit and I call it. If they had said that they could not personally be owned and submissive, that they would consider themselves a slave when owned - I get that and it would be cool. But they defined everyone else in their inital statements and that is not cool.

No one is suggesting a different thought exists, but they are suggesting to keep it personal and not grab every slave or submissive into one single definition. It is rude and lacks respect - especially when it comes down to basically telling Masters/Mistress'/Owners that they are wrong and don't know how to control or define their own relationships.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to chellekitty)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:38:08 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daize

okay where is the original thread for this reply"how can a sub be owned by more than one Dom"? that why i came in this forum. to get some information or someone's outlook on the thread.I wasn't looking for opinions of what a slave is or what others think they are not.

Try starting at the begining and reading through. Just as a side-note, if you want a forum that is very strict about staying exactly on the orginal topic this may not be the place for you.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to daize)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:40:55 AM

daize

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Joined: 10/11/2007
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thank you AquaticSub. I just noticed as my browser refreshed that i was on the 4th page of the thread.lmao. I had noticed that the forum wasn't user friendly to original topics..ty for the input :)

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:41:09 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daize

okay where is the original thread for this reply"how can a sub be owned by more than one Dom"? that why i came in this forum. to get some information or someone's outlook on the thread.I wasn't looking for opinions of what a slave is or what others think they are not.

Ah well. Threads do go off on tangents - no one can control everything.
The OP asked for clarity on submissives being owned by more than one person. A couple of people have suggested that they can't even be owned by one person. I would say that was pretty much in keeping with the thread.
Your milage my vary however.
Welcome to CM.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to daize)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:42:11 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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Bammit Aqua
You are too quick!

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:43:02 AM

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daize

thank you AquaticSub. I just noticed as my browser refreshed that i was on the 4th page of the thread.lmao. I had noticed that the forum wasn't user friendly to original topics..ty for the input :)

I've found it be quite friendly actually. These side discussions keep threads alive (once they go off the first page they usually don't come back). Keeping it alive means someone new, like you, could come in and give new insight on the OP. Course it's nice to have read the whole thing first as sometimes important details come out later that weren't in the OP.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to daize)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:44:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Bammit Aqua
You are too quick!

the.dark.

I am the forum ninja.... skilled in the arts of fast typing and quick refreshes, armed with my broadband I am... UNDEFATABLE!

Until Valyraen comes homes.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:52:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

No, I'm not a slave. To me, slavery is something involuntary and terrible. Slaves are the girls that are smuggled over the border to be prostituted out and fear for their lives on a daily basis, among other examples. I will not give my happiness the same name as their suffering.

How dare you try to define my life for me.

to me slavery is the only way i can be content (happiness comes and goes)...i will defend your right to call yourself whatever you and your owner wish to, but please do not post such broad and missinformed definitions...this lifestyle does not use "standard" definitions for many words, slave is one of them...

BDSM does use standard definitions. Take or leave them. But don't feel anyone has the ability to define other peoples relationships. Oside made the point personal to her. Offensive or not to anyone - it was personal to her.

However - subspace and shootingstar suggested in their inital posts that no one can be a submissive and be owned. That's not personal - that is defining everyone else. That is bullshit and I call it. If they had said that they could not personally be owned and submissive, that they would consider themselves a slave when owned - I get that and it would be cool. But they defined everyone else in their inital statements and that is not cool.

No one is suggesting a different thought exists, but they are suggesting to keep it personal and not grab every slave or submissive into one single definition. It is rude and lacks respect - especially when it comes down to basically telling Masters/Mistress'/Owners that they are wrong and don't know how to control or define their own relationships.

the.dark.

though Oside and Aquatic said "to me" or the like before their statements defining slavery, their statements defining slavery were not personal...there were all encompassing...

to me, women are weak
to me, men are abussive
to me, americans are ethnocentric

i don't believe any of the above statements are true...i do believe they are all inflamatory...but, if we are going by the standards of discussion set in this thread, they are perfectly acceptable...

perhaps i am wrong in arguing that stating something something with an inflamatory notion is not negated with the phrase "to me"...

chelle

< Message edited by chellekitty -- 12/3/2007 9:53:45 AM >

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:58:13 AM

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Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

I have seen posts by someone who talks about ownership of who she calls daddy but also talks about being collared by her fiance? how can someone be owned by more than 1 Master?

It's really quite simple; it's called "Time Share".

First it was condos/vacation spots, then it was airplanes....

I myself am now renting myself out in 1/8ths.

(May the bidding begin).

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 9:59:04 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

though Oside and Aquatic said "to me" or the like before their statements defining slavery, their statements defining slavery were not personal...there were all encompassing...

to me, women are weak
to me, men are abussive
to me, americans are ethnocentric

i don't believe any of the above statements are true...i do believe they are all inflamatory...but, if we are going by the standards of discussion set in this thread, they are perfectly acceptable...

perhaps i am wrong in arguing that stating something something with an inflamatory notion is not negated with the phrase "to me"...

chelle

Unless you want people to never have an honest discussion here about what they believe, you have to accept that people aren't going to agree with you. And that what they believe is going to exclude you sometimes.

Some people here think women are weak. Doesn't offend me.
Some people think men are abusive. Doesn't offend me - I know mine isn't.
Some people find anyone who belongs to a religion to be a nutcase - oh well.

Unless we turn this in a completely PC board where we can't say anything except positive happy things about everything, you are going to have to accept that people are going to have opinions that disagree with you. And if we turn this into that sort of board, you really won't be able to post this:

quote:

improper subject-verb conjugation in what i am presuming is your native language...if it is not please forgive me..

Cause I'm pretty darn sure that was supposed to be insulting.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/3/2007 10:00:22 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to chellekitty)

RE: how can a sub be owned by more than 1 Dom - 12/3/2007 10:03:33 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Your not 'wrong' persay chelle - reality is everything we say or do can be interpreted by someone - somewhere as inflametory. But surely you can see the difference between someone defining something for themselves - and defining everyone else? -

I don't like dogs because to me they smell.
Master does not call me slave because it implies non consent to us.
I could not be a owned and identify as a submissive, I would be in the mindset of a slave.

Are not the same as -

I don't like dogs because they all smell.
Master does not call me slave because all slaves don't consent.
All submissives cannot be owned, you are a slave if you are owned.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to chellekitty)

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