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RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/26/2005 8:17:38 PM

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quote:

Interesting take. From my perspective, it would be the opposite. Most vanilla people I know that "date" sleep with their date the first time out, or end up "meeting for sex" for the first part and then trying to figure out how to go out to dinner when that gets old.

Perhaps i am rather old-fashioned. Contrary to perceived "sexual freedon" (whatever that may be), i have never slept with or had sex with a "date" on the first time out. Dinner first and time to find out about each other. Now, when i have visited professional Dommes, there is session first. If we become known to each other through repeated sessions, She and i would likely goto dinner afterwards. But that is not the same as a non-professional contact.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/26/2005 8:48:00 PM

MistressGrace07

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I am not sexually active with any of My submissives (or anyone else for that matter) but I need aftercare after a session as well. I don't think that's something that is "intimate" (i.e. spooning).. I just think of it as cuddling... I love the feeling of warmth between someone and Myself, but this might be a reply for another topic.

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/26/2005 9:22:00 PM

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It is important to be able to evaluate if the individual with whom you are communicating is real or is merely a poser. This is obviously the case for those women here who receive unsolicited e-mails. It is also the case when men, who have a rather misplaced optimism in some cases, see a photo of a stunningly beautiful woman who is seeking a man.

Clues to people who are full of crap:

1. Any man who has not met and spent time with a woman who he pledges his lifelong submission to or to whom he tells that he will do "anything" for should be assumed to be either full of crap or in need of serious psychiatric attention

2. Anyone, man or woman, who pretends to a level of expertise in BDSM that is nearly all-encompassing is equally full of crap. The extraordinary rare exception to this would be a professional dominatrix who has been in the business and seen clients for over a decade. For the rest of us, the fund of knowledge that must be accumulated in even a sub-section of one area of BDSM is vast. How many people here can truly profess to a full knowledge of electrical play? Of CBT?

3. If it seems too good to be true, it is.

4. A man or woman who will not give a phone number (which indicates a willingness to move to the next level of trust) so that the two of you may make plans to meet is likely either an internet-only individual and will not proceed to anything in real life, is married and truly unavailable, or has in some other way misled the other person.

5. Someone who simply makes excuses to prevent meeting in public may well have a physical appearance different from the photo (either on the web site or shared with the other person) or has not been truthful about his or her appearance. For example, a self-described BBW may really be a BUW -- big ugly woman. Or the "woman" with whom the man has had a great e-mail relationship may, in fact, be a guy posing as a woman.

6. Someone may well be a total newbie. Look out for this. There are people who claim to have "years of experience" on the basis of chat room bdsm. Let's put it this way -- no matter how bad the guy's carpal tunnel syndrome may be from typing in chat rooms, real life caning or CBT is going to hurt a hell of a lot more. Similarly, I don't wish to put my body in the hands of a woman who pretends to an expertise that is non-existant. Newbies, of either gender, who have lurked for years without actually engaging in any BDSM are more likely to not show to a meeting.

(in reply to MistressGrace07)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/26/2005 9:31:13 PM

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hi there

< Message edited by sillisub -- 9/1/2005 7:39:36 PM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/26/2005 9:36:57 PM

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In your previous post, you attributed many quotes to me which weren't mine. I would appreciate if you edited it for accuracy. Thank you.

- LA

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(in reply to sillisub)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/26/2005 9:58:59 PM

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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BostonGuy
2. Anyone, man or woman, who pretends to a level of expertise in BDSM that is nearly all-encompassing is equally full of crap. The extraordinary rare exception to this would be a professional dominatrix who has been in the business and seen clients for over a decade. For the rest of us, the fund of knowledge that must be accumulated in even a sub-section of one area of BDSM is vast. How many people here can truly profess to a full knowledge of electrical play? Of CBT?

I'd even exclude the exception. This is an incredibly broad field. I've been in it for decades and I'm still learning and in awe of some of the folks who do things that I'm still learning about. A couple of examples: I'm looking forward visiting San Francisco and getting a chance to study hook suspension under Cleo Dubois and Fakir Mustafa. Just last weekend, I took classes in pain pressure points and surgical stapling.

Anyone who can do it all is either a god or delusional.... and I know which way to bet.

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(in reply to BostonGuy)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/26/2005 11:07:45 PM

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quote:

4. A man or woman who will not give a phone number (which indicates a willingness to move to the next level of trust) so that the two of you may make plans to meet is likely either an internet-only individual and will not proceed to anything in real life

Hey Bostonguy, I happen to agree with you that a man who won't meet in real life is usually a giveaway for married/attached/unavailable; at least that's been my experience. However, I've just learned from a man on this forum that he takes 6months minimum before meeting. Imagine my surprise. M

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to BostonGuy)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/26/2005 11:17:58 PM

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quote:

I really dont mind being single... I have a great life frankly... I would prefer to be partnered but its not a goal, its a desire of preference not neccesity... that and I have to much to lose if I make a mistake... I get the impression many people out here have ruined their lives and could care less how its managed...

First, you may want to correctly attribute to me the quotes you responded to.
It's good that you're happy with your life, that way it's okay to be rigid since getting same results won't bother you; knowing what you want is important, and I suppose you believe you will know with absolute certainty within six months.

quote:

Yes exactly... that means you "truly" see something special in someone and it shows you trust them as well...

You misunderstood me; I waited for boyfriend whom I had met, dated, and thought I loved. At this point in my life, unless he's in the army/federal service, or in a different continent, there is no way I'd wait (not go myself, or have him come) to meet/get together. M

_____________________________

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to msub4Domme)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 1:51:33 AM

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hi there

< Message edited by sillisub -- 9/1/2005 7:39:55 PM >

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 2:43:06 AM

Posts: 40
Joined: 8/23/2005
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hi there

< Message edited by sillisub -- 9/1/2005 7:40:14 PM >

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 8:59:56 AM

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Joined: 7/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BostonGuy
4. A man or woman who will not give a phone number (which indicates a willingness to move to the next level of trust) so that the two of you may make plans to meet is likely either an internet-only individual and will not proceed to anything in real life, is married and truly unavailable, or has in some other way misled the other person.

BostonGuy, I agreed with much of what you posted, with the exception of the above section, that talked about an unwillingness to give out a private phone number.

Another possibility is that the person (such as myself

) that is not willing to give out their personal number, has done so, in the past, only to be stalked and harassed on the phone.

In my own experience(s), I can tell you about one incident, where I had a man that called repeatedly, minute after minute, hour after hour, ringing the home, as if I'd answer (or come home) during that time. He'd call, and if I wasn't up to talking to him, he would stay on the line and hold the phone line open.

If someone else would answer the phone, he would attempt to interrogate them to my whereabouts, and demanded to know other information. All of this was BEFORE we even went out on a simple date. (And this is a man that was introduced to me, by my ex, so it wasn't like it was an online, total stranger. You NEVER know who you are giving your number out to, online.)

My phone number is ONLY given out to people that I have had the pleasure of getting to know a bit.

I am usually more than open to meeting a man that corresponds, over a brief period of time, as long as he expresses himself with courtesy and can show a minimum amount of intelligence. Fakes and wankers are easily seen in the words they send.

If someone is not willing to allow the time to get to know one another via e-mail, and/or IM, then we're both wasting out time. Someone that pushes to meet, prior to any knowledge of one another, is usually either desperate or married (seeking an affair), in my experience. (lol...like the guys that ONLY want to meet for "lunch.") And if they're unwilling to converse via online chat, or unable (as so many cannot hold a conversation online, let alone in person), then again, we're both wasting our time. If a man doesn't have the confidence to talk about himself, or is unable to hold a conversation "online"...he surely won't be able to do so in person either, IMO.

While some of the things you expressed, as exactly like I feel, I also work not to generalize on "all" that exhibit this behavior as being the same. I do however, protect my own privacy, for obvious reasons.

K

(in reply to BostonGuy)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 9:13:29 AM

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Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPurrmeow

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsHoney2you
I see nothing in which to disagree with your statement. My wonder is how so many think BDSM is different? The only difference I see is we go through the 'back door' (sex first) then try to build a relationship on that alone. Gee, could that be our downfall? Trying to build a relationship on something as fleeting as an orgasm? Makes me wanna say "hmmmmm"
Ms Honey

Interesting take. From my perspective, it would be the opposite. Most vanilla people I know that "date" sleep with their date the first time out, or end up "meeting for sex" for the first part and then trying to figure out how to go out to dinner when that gets old.

Most people I know in the lifestyle do not go for sex first. They are building relaitonships and usually require more from a person before getting involved. Then again, most of the people I am around are "lifestyle" people, not just meet-n-beaters.

It's all about perspectives.

Purr

Purr,
I don't think I was clear enough in my explanation. I find when I date vanilla I am not seeking a sexual encounter, I am seeking a life partner and want to get to know the person, find out if that person and I have shared interests.

In BDSM it is expected to be sexual. I do not play sexually with my partners in the P to V way (Penis to Vagina). I play with their parts and yes, that's sexual to them. By meeting in a sexual realm by vanilla standards as explained above in paragraph one, BDSM is backwards.

My apologies if I confused anyone,
Ms Honey

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 9:32:25 AM

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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Thanks for the clarification, Ms Honey, I was rather startled by your OP!

I agree with K about the phone numbers. I am a pro domme, and I have a phone number in a DDI ad for the world to see, but I do not hand out my personal phone number to all and sundry. There are a lot of seriously creepy people in the Detroit scene, and I don't need to subject my household to any of their oddness. I do insist on phone conversation, since I can intuit a lot from a conversation, but I make them give me their number, so I can call from a phone card, or use the business line.

(in reply to MsHoney2you)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 10:35:23 AM

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Joined: 2/27/2005
From: Edmonton, Alberta
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quote:

Original: sillisub

I think if you re-read my posts I said the absolute minumum is 1 month... Although I usually stretch it out to 6, that is correct...

The fellows I meet online in a serious way are usually local. If one of those made me wait for an entire month before so much as meeting in a coffee shop I'd drop them cause I would know something was up with them.

The fact that there might be a wasted meeting or two pales in comparison to endless phone conversations (I hate talking on the phone).

You have to keep in mind also, that what I'm aiming for is not an instant "Domme/sub connection" because that's not possible at that stage. But I need to dissipate his silly fantasies about who I am at an early stage of the acquaintance. Otherwise I get to waste lots of time with a silly wanker online who thinks that (whatever I tell him about myself) I am really that Super Domme of his dreams.

For the record, I have usually had a reasonably good time at these meets (barring a couple of famous local malesubs), though they didn't lead to anything more because I do not resemble a porn star in person.

Alix

(in reply to sillisub)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 10:42:18 AM

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From: Sacramento, California
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I am the same way. If I chat with someone online, I usually ask them out to coffee that day. It is important to meet in the real world, dissipate fantasies, etc. as soon as possible. I agree that a Dom/sub connection takes time, and it has been my experience as well that many sub males are not willing to give it time.

(in reply to Alixandria)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 11:02:30 AM

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quote:

So what are the both of you saying? I should go back, edit and repost everything correctly? Seems like a big waste of bandwidth and I cant imagine the people out here would like to see it all posted again, but I will if it makes you all happy...

I don't really care, but Lady A seemed to want that, so I called your attention to it... Hopefully whoever reads your reply will have read mine first, and know those words belong to me.

quote:

when I do find someone interesting I make sure I cannot meet them for 6 months... I believe in long courtships

That's the part I disagreed with and thought excessively rigid.

quote:

It only serves to weed out, (and quite well I might add), the women who are not exactly forthright with their motives... Those who would indiscriminately have me hop a plane to visit them with no concern for anything but themselves... and the many who had me fly out there so they could get ""LAID""... Thats right GET LAID!!!! Now I love sex but I am not going to fly all over the country on my nickel for it

Where are you finding these women who cannot find a man just to get laid, they need you to fly accross the country just for that?
The possible problem is that you seem to attach a lot of expectation to having flown anywhere; chemistry is a funny thing; someone may possess the qualities you seek, but when you're in one another's presence, things just don't feel that natural/easy. This is why meeting and getting a general feel of how you fit together is a good idea (if you or she can afford it obviously).

quote:

I think if you re-read my posts I said the absolute minumum is 1 month...

This I happen to find very reasonable.
I know you're not a dumb guy, but I think that having many rigid rules makes one less attractive. Obviously there are things one ought to be rigid about, and others are less consequential. There is no doubt you've been burned before (who among us hasn't, so work through it), but there is no reason you can't as an adult, approach a lady with an open mind, get to know her, and let her get to know you, and than let the chips fall where they may.
I think that communicating, paying attention, and watching for consistency are things that indicate trustworthyness. I also think the only way you will find out if someone is kind, honest, and decent is if you are around them for more than 1-2days; it's my belief that if someone is displaying characteristics with other people that you disapprove of, they will eventually do it to you as well, and that is something you cannot assess on the phone or edited online conversation. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to sillisub)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 12:47:29 PM

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hi there

< Message edited by sillisub -- 9/1/2005 7:40:36 PM >

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 12:57:54 PM

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hi there

< Message edited by sillisub -- 9/1/2005 7:40:55 PM >

(in reply to Alixandria)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 1:28:29 PM

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quote:

I was referring to deception... That is what I discovered after I got there ok...

And I was referring to this statement:

quote:

It only serves to weed out, (and quite well I might add), the women who are not exactly forthright with their motives... Those who would indiscriminately have me hop a plane to visit them with no concern for anything but themselves... and the many who had me fly out there so they could get ""LAID""... Thats right GET LAID!!!! Now I love sex but I am not going to fly all over the country on my nickel for it

I understand that people aren't always honest, but you made it sound as if their motive for having you indiscriminately fly over to meet was just to get laid, which I thought unlikely (but possible I suppose).
So, I imagine the problem is generally expectations on both parts gone wrong; what did she think she would get from you, and what did you think you would get from her? If not for unfulfilled expectations, than meeting someone simply to get to know them, and having a better feel for weather you two are a good match should come with minimum expectation (aside from being single, appear as one described, being available as one professed)... I could be wrong, but this is my opinion.
I'm glad you've never had a problem detecting chemistry, I unfortunately have met people that I didn't feel that certain je ne sais quoi with from email/phone to real time meeting.. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to sillisub)

RE: Grrrrrr.... - 8/27/2005 1:53:40 PM

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Joined: 2/27/2005
From: Edmonton, Alberta
Status: offline

quote:

Original: sillisub

Whats up with the "dissipate his silly fantasies"

I dont have fantasies, at least not in the manner you are descibing that need to be dissipated... I have no preconceptions going into this with anyone... Only what has been told to me and what I can see from observation... I may be into worship but at the same time I also know you put your panties on one leg at a time just like all the rest of us.. well unless you are sitting down I suppose LOL :)

What's up with the "dissipate his silly fantasies" is that without exception, even though I tell the guy I'm an ordinary looking 50 year old woman who has no expectations about a first meeting, I get a long harangue (ok, the harangue is meant to be playful) about how disappointed they are that I didn't show up in a latex catsuit. Really. In fact, a thread I've been meaning to start is how to overcome the sheer burnout factor of going through this experience again and again.

I can't address your lack of fantasies because I don't know you, but again, without exception before the meets I've described above I get assured that the fellow has no pre-conceived ideas either.

Alix

(in reply to sillisub)

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