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RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/10/2008 4:10:16 PM

Posts: 11766
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quote:

greetings merc,
i'm a liberal owned by a conservative! i don't just write people off because they are conservative, LOL. give some of us a bit of credit. ;)

annabelle,
I not only give you "credit"; I give you both respect. I'll admit I had to check but, I never said "all" and didn't even say most. But I did do a search to check regarding the reference and NEVER saw it the other way! I think it sad that people would want to isolate themselves from an alternative viewpoint. If nothing else, it limits your ability to learn something new; either from the alternative view or by the research undertaken to prove it wrong.

Since nobody challenged it, I think its safe to say nobody else has either. Let me tell you that beth and I have VERY little in common regarding politics or religion. I wouldn't ever try to change her any more that she would try to change me, or I would force her to vote for a particular candidate. Until the election we'll be trying to convince each other who to support. beth's strength in her convictions and her ability to defend them are two of the many things I valued about her from the start.

I'm glad to know that you, as a slave, retain that same strength and your Master doesn't see it as a threat. Most likely, as I, he considers it an asset!

Regards to you both!

(in reply to hisannabelle)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/10/2008 4:39:34 PM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~

Anyone else find it as interesting as I do to note that the only exclusionary (Bigoted?) references are from those saying that they wouldn't consider anyone 'republican' or 'conservative'. Never recall in this, or any other thread, where a similar exclusionary reference was made pointed to those identified as 'liberal' or 'democratic'.

As a devote pragmatist with an insatiable desire to learn I'm beginning to wonder if its a function of the insecurity and lack of confidence in their philosophy or if 'open minded' and 'liberal' are mutually exclusive.

When I was searching or when contemplating adding another - consideration if the person is Marxist, Maoist, or member of the John Birch society wouldn't be in the top 1000 of factors considered.

As someone that is "exclusionary" as you put it, my reasons are wanting a peaceful home with someone who shares my cultural values and ideals. I am not for a rainbow coalition in my intimate relationships, and the fact of the matter is that people who have similar backgrounds tend to have longer term relationships and more harmonious ones that are less complicated. It is awesome to spend time with someone that you click with and that when you speak about what is going on in the world you understand each other.

I would not want to date people into country western music either.

I do not want to date submissive men either.

I do not find men younger than myself to be attractive either.

I tend to like men who dress blue collar.

I adore it when I can talk about fads, trends, and music that was popular when I was young, and my Daddy knows what I am talking about...

It really is just a compatibility issue for me, I have dated republicans... and while that led to passionate hot arguments with some steamy sex, at the end of the day I had nothing to really "talk" to him about. We just didn't see the world the same way... and that is what it is all about, isn't it?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/10/2008 5:10:07 PM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

I'll admit I had to check but, I never said "all" and didn't even say most. But I did do a search to check regarding the reference and NEVER saw it the other way! I think it sad that people would want to isolate themselves from an alternative viewpoint. If nothing else, it limits your ability to learn something new; either from the alternative view or by the research undertaken to prove it wrong.

Are you saying that the only way one can learn about alternative political philosophies is to bang someone from the opposing political ideology, and that if one is unwilling to be in a relationship people who are conservative that they are missing out on learning opposing political views? I find that amusing frankly.

I have conservative friends, I have had sex with a conservative, I have conservative family members, and I have made it my business to learn alternative political philosophies other than my own... including libertarianism and paleo-conservatism... which I do think have some points to make... I just dislike what neo-conservatism is and its goals and its philosophies. I also understand that the vast majority of people that vote certain ways are not as educated about the true philosophical leanings of those they are voting for. I have found that to be true of many people labeling themselves to be members of any political party.

Most people are vastly apolitical, only take an interest in politics during a presidential year, and it is not something they are vastly interested in... even enough to post to a thread like this. Most people do not even vote... much less care if their dominant person wants them to vote one way or another. So most people who are passionate about their political beliefs to the extent that it might make them want to only be with someone else who thought closely to the way that they did does not mean that they have no desire to learn how conservatives think. It does not mean they hate conservatives. It does not mean they will never befriend a conservative either.

I recently ran into one of the most conservative professors I ever had. I took him for 4 history classes for fun. I enjoyed debating him, and he offered me a letter of recommendation, nominated me for scholarships, and when I ran into him a few weeks ago and told him I applied to grad school, ands which one, he hugged me because he was thrilled for me. I really admired him on many levels because he was a good man. But that does not translate into wanting to marry him or be his submissive, or have his UMs... hopefully one isn't so closed minded that they cannot see that just because you have a preference for one type of person, it does not mean that you hate all other types of people... that is just illogical to even assert.

I am sure you have preferences Merc, certain things that a slave type could be like that would negate you having an interest in them.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/10/2008 5:20:17 PM

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings merc,

thanks for your response! i didn't mean to imply that you said "all," it was just the impression i got from your post - and i just wanted to point out that some of us believe it can work, hehe.

he also values that in our relationship, and i value his experiences and his political knowledge as well. i am rather apolitical, although extremely far to the left, and having been in the military, he is much more interested in politics and current events. so i've learned a lot. (it has also led me to see a very different side of things and sometimes to change how i view certain issues, such as security.)

we both happen to be buddhist, although from vastly different traditions, so religion is not quite as much of a gap for us. the nice thing about having different political beliefs, though, is that we are able to discuss and not get into debates or either of us get upset about it...which may be a product of the fact that he gets to have the last word, being the one in charge and all ;)

anyway, thanks again for your insight and i wish you and beth the best as well. i always enjoy your posts.

respectfully,
annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/10/2008 5:23:19 PM

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/26/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Are you saying that the only way one can learn about alternative political philosophies is to bang someone from the opposing political ideology...

I have to admit that that sounds like a fine idea to me. Any pretty little things want to step up, strip down, and teach me all about supply side economics while shaking their money makers?

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 1:41:07 AM

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Joined: 4/15/2006
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Women fought very hard for the right to vote and to have any person, even my Master, decide who I need to vote for would make me very angry. However, he enjoys that I have a brain and use it and he enjoys our political and religious differences. He would never strive to control me in that way, so I guess that is part of how we are a good fit.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 6:56:56 AM

Posts: 11766
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julia,
Appreciate all the insight you provided, however you don't need to justify anything for me. Though of course its your prerogative, feel free to do so.

quote:

Are you saying that the only way one can learn about alternative political philosophies is to bang someone from the opposing political ideology.

Not even the quote of mine that you used represents that position, and I'm surprised you belief that is the case. I said isolation to people only in agreement; "limits"; "only" wasn't written or implied.

quote:

I am sure you have preferences Merc, certain things that a slave type could be like that would negate you having an interest in them.

I don't know what you reference by "slave type". I would "negate" any self labeled 'slave' who's actions, words, demands, and limits, indicated that they are not compatible with me or, at minimum, the self applied label had no reality behind it.

But the topic here isn't relationship capability. My observation was tangential about how limiting, and in my opinion, isolating, and intellectually stifling it is to make a philosophy or political party, as it was described, a 'hard-limit'. If it isn't for you, then it wasn't directed to you. However, it's appropriate to be clear and direct in response to your direct question to me.

Politically? Philosophically? NO it would never negate interest and it never has. In fact any "slave type" whose definition of slave didn't match mine but with intelligence and had positions diametrically in opposition to mine would be sought out socially. "Slave type", or 'Master-type' for that matter, that position holds, and without taking inventory, I say that describes MOST of the people whose company we enjoy.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 7:12:53 AM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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There are people in my life that I love that are conservatives. I talk about politics and philosophies with these people. I have never walked away from someone or hung up on them, because we did not agree about politics... I have had a few family members that were not so tolerant. I think that what I read in your post was a statement that only liberal people have being with conservatives as a "hard limit"... that does not mean that it is a hard limit in every aspect of a person's life because they would rather be with someone that enjoys their interests and appreciates their values.

And I am not explaining myself to you, I was merely pointing out that there are reasons to have anything as a limit if you knew it would make you unhappy with a mate... and intellect is a preference just as being like minded is a preference. I do not choose my associations based on intellect as far as friendship goes. I have friends that are not particularly intelligent. I raised my UM to have all sorts of friends too, he has one friend that has slight Down's Syndrome. To me it is shallow to only surround oneself with people that one feels are up to snuff intellectually. There are all sorts of people in the world, why not accept all of them as friends?

Edited to add... I have lost a few conservative friends that were insulting to me after 9-11. I will not hang out with anyone that puts me down for my beliefs and tried to scapegoat people who think like I do as "helping terrorists", or other such garbage, and think that this sort of thing is political debate... it isn't political debate, it is vitrolic spew. Unfortunately I found out a couple of people I thought of as intelligent people were filled with nastiness because they couldn't get me to go along with the way they thought... so they bashed me instead. This has led me to be dubious about people who speak in certain ways being my friend. I figure that sooner or later they are going to try to smack me with "your aiding the terrorists" bullshit... which makes me lose respect for those types of people.

I got really tired of the hate rhetoric, makes me seriously cautious about socializing with negative people.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/11/2008 7:20:18 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 7:20:36 AM

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

For me, I can't imagine being in concert with a conservative or Republican, we would be so out of whack regarding what we consider important that I think it would not leave a lot of ground for finding a happy place. Not only am I liberal I'm in the Libertarian range on tests that I take. So giving my vote to someone so far afield from me would probably be difficult. Although with my work schedule I can't get to the polling place on time anyway, so it's moot for me.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 7:26:26 AM

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

To me it is shallow to only surround oneself with people that one feels are up to snuff intellectually. There are all sorts of people in the world, why not accept all of them as friends?

I said nothing contradictory to accepting anyone as a "friend". I have no intellectual evaluation process which determines whether a person will be one or not. Being open to any and all positions and NOT discounting them because they're in opposition has opened the door to many friendships where the only thing we have in common is wanted to argue about how we disagree. If there is an intellectual requirement it is that I refuse to engage with those who consider name calling as a debate tactic and use it as an argument point. That level of ignorance, I won't stoop.

I represented no intellectual "standard" and have none as a social criteria. "Shallow" would be an appropriate description to anyone doing so. We CAN agree.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 7:43:47 AM

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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I will change my position on many issues if I read information that shows me I am wrong. I have in fact changed my position more than once. I have even changed political affiliations. What I cannot do is be with a person that follows a neo conservative philosophy and is an evangelical. In my vast experience when one challenges someone who is conservative (in the model of a Bush supporting Republican) they usually end up calling names, putting down my ethics because I do not believe the same way, or say some cute little shit like "your lack of support for our troops is killing them". I am sure they believe what they are saying, don't see the closed mindedness of their position, nor how insulting these statements are to those they make them to... but it doesn't change the bad taste in my mouth after having repeatedly dealt with such people.

Not all conservatives are the same, unfortunately there is no qualifier of "Bush Supporter" or "Evangelical" under hard limits... I would have put that there in an instant when I was dom shopping... The only reason I have not removed that from my "Hard Limits" list is because that list is there to remind me of how my Daddy has been instrumental in changing that list to actually being blank.

I think that people who know what makes them happy in a mate should keep that in their mind when looking for someone. I had a very definite idea of what sort of man I wanted to be with, and he showed up. I think the more concrete of an idea that people have of whom they want to be with, the better the odds are that they will find it...I also think that being too open minded when it comes to a mate can lead to a very unfortunate match. I had a very definite idea of the dominant I wanted to be with... and when I found him I realized there was no other dominant for me. I would rather be vanilla than settle for less than what I have found in my Daddy. When we quit seeing each other last summer, I knew that there was no one else for me in this lifestyle. No one I could respect enough to submit to... but that is just me.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 8:03:20 AM

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Joined: 12/14/2007
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<<Although with my work schedule I can't get to the polling place on time anyway, so it's moot for me. >>

Two words: Absentee Ballot - it's how I vote all the time because I can't see those screens on the ballot machines in the booth.

My original response was to OP's entire first post. I surrender control during play. I have a sense of self-worth and self-confidence that do not allow me to surrender my brain and volition to someone else in other areas of my life.

That being said, here's a caveat. In a disaster situation, if I am confident that my Dom has a good head on His shoulders, I will follow His orders because I tend to panic.

If my Dom has more experience and more knowledge than I do in a subject, I will defer to His judgement and superior abilities. For instance, I am hopeless when it comes to fashion; if He knows what He likes to see on me, then why not let Him see it? It's no skin off my nose. But if He takes it upon Himself to correct my grammar, I become rather huffy.

But then, I do not, nor will I ever, consider myself a "slave." In my opinion, a human being is not property - period, end of report. (I also don't believe in "parental rights," either; I believe "parent" is a verb.)

SubbieOnWheels

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 8:11:20 AM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Two words: Absentee Ballot - it's how I vote all the time because I can't see those screens on the ballot machines in the booth.

Not every state allows for absentee ballots because of one's work schedule. You live in California.... I do too, absentee ballots are very easy to obtain here. That might not be the case for katy.

quote:

If my Dom has more experience and more knowledge than I do in a subject, I will defer to His judgement and superior abilities. For instance, I am hopeless when it comes to fashion; if He knows what He likes to see on me, then why not let Him see it? It's no skin off my nose. But if He takes it upon Himself to correct my grammar, I become rather huffy.

I am a hippie type person, and while I have fashion sense, I do not dress the way he wanted me to. So he just went out and started buying me clothes. It is a very sexy feeling to go shoe shopping with one's dom. You know, walking up and down awaiting their approval or disapproval of a selection... so freaking hot!

He corrects the way I annunciate my words too. My written vocab is superior, but my actual diction is terrible because I was not raised saying the words I know. I can use words properly and in context... he will often ask me for the right word to go in a certain place because I am very good with word smithing... but I am always glad when he corrects my speech. He was raised by very educated people, so he knows how these words sound, and I do not.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 8:23:45 AM

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Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

Two words: Absentee Ballot

Yeah, I know that's an option. But I don't have to choose to exercise it.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 8:25:24 AM

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

So he just went out and started buying me clothes. It is a very sexy feeling to go shoe shopping with one's dom. You know, walking up and down awaiting their approval or disapproval of a selection... so freaking hot!

Okay, the fun police have decided that you are having too much fun!!!

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 8:33:04 AM

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Joined: 10/8/2005
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That is in fact one of the highways I dominate...have your butt (ass) kneeling at road side waiting as I pass thru CR and I'll render you into a state of ecstasy and perhaps worse, or better; that would depend on your mindset over slavery.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

I am not a participative dominant; it is in fact my way or the highway in many instances...

Excuse me...would this be U.S. 30, by any chance? Wondering...

Tee

< Message edited by xBullx -- 1/11/2008 8:38:32 AM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to subtee)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 8:38:32 AM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

So he just went out and started buying me clothes. It is a very sexy feeling to go shoe shopping with one's dom. You know, walking up and down awaiting their approval or disapproval of a selection... so freaking hot!

Okay, the fun police have decided that you are having too much fun!!!

Yeah, I knew someone was going to bust me sooner or later

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 9:07:58 AM

Posts: 256
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline

Katy,

I believe that by law, your employer must allow you time to go vote in your precinct, much like they must allow you time to serve on a jury. (I don't know if flexibility in absentee voting makes up for this, though.) I worked 45 minutes from home at one point, and it was understood that on election days, I would either arrive late or leave early. Of course, I worked with them to do what was easier for my co-workers.

That is not to say that you must take that right, just that if you so choose, they have to let you.

(general response)

My personal opinion on the elections is that voting for local offices, from my city council, up through the US House and Senate is much more important than the presidential race. Too often, most viable candidates for the presidency swing far extreme to get the party nomination, and then swing moderate to win the race. Rarely does "truth" or "ethics" enter the fray.

I do not currently have an owner, so the response is hypothetical, but I would not consider it unreasonable for the Master to order me to vote for a certain person. I would consider it unreasonable for that Master to not listen to my reasons for voting a different way, and allow me to vote my way after proving to him why my values would dictate such a vote (unless he convinces me otherwise). My intelligence and reason is one of the assets I bring to any relationship; a Master minimizing and overriding my reasons for supporting a certain candidate would lead me to question my choice of Master.

Pie in the sky right now; reality might prove otherwise. I reserve the right to be wrong.

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 10:08:10 AM

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

Woah... I am coming into this very late and there are over five pages of responses, so I will respond only to the OP.

I think, for me, it comes down to this...if a man I willingly, fully submitted to told me to vote some way, even if it were not the vote I would choose, I would do it. However, it would cause some serious thoughts to float about in my mind.

Stealing votes, even that of your slave, is cheating. Do I really want to be with a person who is cheating within his chosen society? Even by one itsy bitsy little vote? Why should he get two votes when every other person gets one?

I would have more respect for him were he to tell me that as his property, I am not allowed to vote, than for him to use my vote to steal an extra notch up on his fellow, one-vote citizens.

Often, it is the little cheats and steals here and there that reveal the nature of a person, not the gigantic, the glaring, and the obvious ones.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to RoughFN)

RE: I'm completely devoted, but... - 1/11/2008 7:44:31 PM

Posts: 57
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: oliderid
you diminish the freedom of this society if you don't vote accordingly to your own will, . This freedom allowing you/me/anybody in this forum Master/Slave/Switch/etc to live our passion. A democracy (and thus tolerance) is a peaceful perpetual conflict of ideas. It needs your ideas as much than mine. IMHO

What society? I am no longer a resident of the US. I now reside in Canada where I cannot vote at all since I am not a citizen. I legally immigrated to this country upon his instructions. I am not sure I understand how the freedom that I have to move to another country diminishes other people's freedoms?

quote:

Concerning your question..I consider this principle higher than me or anybody. If I renounce to my freedom, I would feel like a traitor to those who died for or died during the oppresion.

Since I have renounced my right to vote in the US by no longer being a permanent resident, do you consider me a traitor?

What is freedom if not the right to live the way you want to live? Or is it only freedom as long as they live the way others think they should live?

Thank you for your answer, but if freedom is so very important to you then I don't understand the negativity towards others exercising their freedom to live the way they choose.

Knight's Kyra

If you are fully immigrated, then u should be allowed to vote. Im Canadian and im pretty sure u should be bale to vote. I know this was off topic but it just sort of struck me.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

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