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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 8:57:30 AM

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What's the point of arguing or debating religion?

My standard retort if someone raises an issue along these lines is "He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules. YOU go to hell." I have nothing to fear from it.

If you follow the religion in question, then it may be worth discussing to find out more. The origin, whether you personally want to accept it, whatever. I get that. But if you don't follow the religion, then what's it matter?

Personally, I'm an atheist. I put no more weight on what's written in the bible than I do on greek mythology, norse mythology, shintoism, buddhism, hinduism, islam, whatever. If somebody told me that god doesn't like bdsm, I'd be inclined to reply, "Which God?" I'm sure the greeks chained up people all the time. There's a line about how Christians don't believe in thousands of gods. Atheists just believe in one less.

So there's my answer. Zeus was happy enslaving people, brainwashing them, chaining them up and tossing them into pits and so on. BDSM is fine. All hail Zeus!

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 8:59:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

if god did not exist it would be necessary to invent him

Voltaire

voltair was a believer?

quote:

Lillith was created first for Adam, but not from Adam. therefore she had her own mind (god forbid!)

So lilith was a mistake of god? OR did an other God made her?

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:00:52 AM

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quote:

I get that. But if you don't follow the religion, then what's it matter?

Right now there is a religion treatening my country with deaths, if we don't reduce our freedom of speech.
I don't follow that religion, but I sure like to talk about it.

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 1/16/2008 9:01:23 AM >

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:02:14 AM

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quote:

I believe that religion provided moral codes of conduct for people who needed to get along for survival 4,000 to 2,000 years ago. And I know alot of people today that would be far more immoral if they didn't have a God telling them to treat others respectfully. So I think that religion has it's place

I view my religion as a basis of faith from which i've learned my spirituality as a child and young adult and now as a reasoning adult can separate the goods within it (most of the teachings) and the bad (all the nonsense associated with the Catholic Church - bad priests, Vatican's $$, etc.) I use the church more as a tool with the UM's to give them something to think about - somewhere to belong if somewhere along their lives they need it. I believe God created humans with free will ... and will certainly understand it if I question, have moments of doubt and lean on Him throughout the hard times in life. None of which has anything to do with a man-made institution, yet everything to do with a faith that I learned at the man-made institution.

Very interesting posts. I've appreciate reading all the viewpoints.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:02:26 AM

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Is God so powerful that he can make a rock SO big , the he himself can not lift?

George Carlin

and no Voltaire was not a believer....thus he rots in hell.....:)

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:04:52 AM

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Voltair said; IF god DIDN"T excist

implies he believed not (or says god excists)?
(Or is it my bad understanding of English)

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 1/16/2008 9:05:38 AM >

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:06:13 AM

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I have no idea...........

Jeff

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:06:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Is God so powerful that he can make a rock SO big , the he himself can not lift?

George Carlin

and no Voltaire was not a believer....thus he rots in hell.....:)

That is a stupid quote..lol..why would a smart man do that?

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:07:13 AM

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Basically I think what he meant was that no matter what *we* would have some sort of a god, you have to take it in context. He said "If God didn't exist, it would be neccisary to invent him. This is the occupation of he Church"

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:07:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Voltair said; IF god DIDN"T excist

implies he believed not (or says god excists)?
(Or is it my bad understanding of English)

God does exist, he was created 4,000 years ago.

I took Voltair to mean that in his time if God hadn't already been created there'd be a need to create him.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:08:38 AM

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This is a fascinating thread.

I have always believed that many of the stories in the Bible are allegories - including the story of Adam and Eve. The idea of all humanity being descended from one set of parents is not realistic - where did Adam's daughters-in-law come from?

I am taking a Bible study course at church, and most of what I'm learning is what the writers of the book wanted the people of Israel (we're still on the Old Testament). Some of what is recorded may actually have happened, but how much is anyone's guess.

And for anyone's edification, I pray to a God who is both Father and Mother. And I believe that God created us as sexual beings for a reason - well, several reasons: reproduction, yes, but amoebas reproduce asexually, so why not Man? God wants us to be happy and have fun - and to have pleasure; the way in which we express that pleasure is up to us, as long as we don't harm anyone.

But then I'm a Methodist, and as the pastor who baptized me said, "We're Methodists - we accept all stray dogs." (With apologies to any Methodists out there who believe differently.)

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:10:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Just the purse?..............btw, thanks to years of indoctrination, I can still recite the Niciean Creed..........sad really

Jeff

Amazing how that stuff sticks in the brain, isn't it? I teach CCD and they've actually changed a few of the prayers to make them more up-to-date. The Act of Contrition had a lot of changes made to it. I always stumble over the new one. It's like Catholic-lite for the MTV generation. And I'm only 42! lol

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:12:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Voltair said; IF god DIDN"T excist

implies he believed not (or says god excists)?
(Or is it my bad understanding of English)

God does exist, he was created 4,000 years ago.

I took Voltair to mean that in his time if God hadn't already been created there'd be a need to create him.

I know what he means, but IF some one invents quotes (lol) he better practice English.
It is confusing for non-english people :P

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:13:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

If that's true, who created the religions? Are ALL religions created by God?

I don't mean this flippantly or sarcastically. Depends on which God you're talking about. One of the best college courses I ever took was a comparison of world religions. It covered all the beginnings, main beliefs, and histories of everything from Buddhist, Mormons to Seventh Day Adventists. I used to have a comparison sheet somewhere that gave a quick and easy breakdown of each b/c sometimes I get my religions mixed up, but lost it in a move.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:14:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels

This is a fascinating thread.

I have always believed that many of the stories in the Bible are allegories - including the story of Adam and Eve. The idea of all humanity being descended from one set of parents is not realistic - where did Adam's daughters-in-law come from?

I am taking a Bible study course at church, and most of what I'm learning is what the writers of the book wanted the people of Israel (we're still on the Old Testament). Some of what is recorded may actually have happened, but how much is anyone's guess.

And for anyone's edification, I pray to a God who is both Father and Mother. And I believe that God created us as sexual beings for a reason - well, several reasons: reproduction, yes, but amoebas reproduce asexually, so why not Man? God wants us to be happy and have fun - and to have pleasure; the way in which we express that pleasure is up to us, as long as we don't harm anyone.

But then I'm a Methodist, and as the pastor who baptized me said, "We're Methodists - we accept all stray dogs." (With apologies to any Methodists out there who believe differently.)

True many things did happen and many things are shared (including names) with the Islam.
I think it is kinda biography mixed with wise lessons, the bible I mean.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:16:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

that it is against God to do any BDSM. Does anyone know why? Is it because of the sexual pleasure that they object to or is it something else? Thanks

NO WHERE in the kings james bible does it say sexual pleasure is wrong...as a matter of fact it says the marital bed is undefiled.....God mentions a few things regarding sex that is wrong in His eyes, but alot of "BDSM" isnt in there. As for this lilith thing....NOWHERE is that lilith thing mentioned...as far as the king james bible goes it was adam and eve.....
Edited to add: the king james bible said God created adam and eve....it did not say adam and eve were the only people God created. Sometimes whats not said ...is as important as what is said. (just my opinion)

< Message edited by breatheasone -- 1/16/2008 9:24:00 AM >

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:17:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Voltair said; IF god DIDN"T excist

implies he believed not (or says god excists)?
(Or is it my bad understanding of English)

God does exist, he was created 4,000 years ago.

I took Voltair to mean that in his time if God hadn't already been created there'd be a need to create him.

I know what he means, but IF some one invents quotes (lol) he better practice English.
It is confusing for non-english people :P

since I'm lousy with dates, I looked him up to put him in context. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaire

During his lifetime it was very unfashionable to question God, people weren't looking for freedom FROM religion but freedom OF religion. I'd suspect that in his time it was prudent to speak cryptically about ones disbelief in God if one wanted to remain part of the surrounding community. To turn ones back from God in this time period automatically marked you as a supporter of Satan.

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Sex without pain is like food without taste.
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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:18:34 AM

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I have a question. How come Jesus did not write a book in the bible. We know he took a lot of his commanments from other religions of the areas he traveled in.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:20:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Voltair said; IF god DIDN"T excist

implies he believed not (or says god excists)?
(Or is it my bad understanding of English)

God does exist, he was created 4,000 years ago.

I took Voltair to mean that in his time if God hadn't already been created there'd be a need to create him.

I know what he means, but IF some one invents quotes (lol) he better practice English.
It is confusing for non-english people :P

since I'm lousy with dates, I looked him up to put him in context. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaire

During his lifetime it was very unfashionable to question God, people weren't looking for freedom FROM religion but freedom OF religion. I'd suspect that in his time it was prudent to speak cryptically about ones disbelief in God if one wanted to remain part of the surrounding community. To turn ones back from God in this time period automatically marked you as a supporter of Satan.

Thank you ! interesting

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I have a question. How come Jesus did not write a book in the bible. We know he took a lot of his commanments from other religions of the areas he traveled in.

he couldn't write, as most people then

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 1/16/2008 9:21:36 AM >

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 9:23:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

that it is against God to do any BDSM. Does anyone know why? Is it because of the sexual pleasure that they object to or is it something else? Thanks

I think most religions don't say anything about BDSM because frankly they were constructed long before the concept of consensual sexuality that was not just for procreation was really a topic of discussion or concern.

Religion is NOT a deity.

The Divine has never told me that what I do and how my household is set up is anything other than great for us. Since I talk to the Divine regularly I'm pretty sure It could tell me if It had a problem with how I live my life.

The fact that we are now 8+ years with my slave as part of it and we are all happy and fairly healthy I think is a good testament that this works for us. Can't say whether it would work for anyone else.

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