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RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 7:30:16 PM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Solipsistic

This article is NOT about some vanilla guy making a fuss about a couple with a leash. I guarantee you things like that happen all the time every day and they are not news. The news is that some jerk brought his personal views into the workplace and our always-trying-to-be-impartial society stood up for the kids with the leash.

No but it's really not up to you to decide what is the most important part of this for anyone but yourself or anyone you own.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Solipsistic)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 7:34:10 PM

Posts: 76
Joined: 11/25/2007
Status: offline

"The couple, who live on benefits in a council house and plan to start a family, have been friends for years."

I'm not from the UK so what does that part about "living on benefits in a council house" mean?

(in reply to Solipsistic)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 7:55:46 PM

Posts: 50
Joined: 10/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
No but it's really not up to you to decide what is the most important part of this for anyone but yourself or anyone you own.

True, which is why I qualified it as a vent. I admit it made me sad that the discussion didn't spend more time talking about why this is such a good thing for the community as a whole. But then, positive things are never quite as interesting to talk about as contentious ones!

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 8:55:45 PM

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Joined: 11/7/2005
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quote:

BoundDown: "The couple, who live on benefits in a council house and plan to start a family, have been friends for years."

I'm not from the UK so what does that part about "living on benefits in a council house" mean?

Living in subsidized housing and on welfare. Frankly unnecessary gratuitous information which I suspect was put there to demean the couple.

E

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to BoundDown)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 9:08:01 PM

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Joined: 11/7/2005
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ShaktiSama got it so right, that I hesitate to post more.

But seeing as my comments on non-consensual kink apparently opened up ad hominem attacks (that means nasty personal comments -- for those of you who make them but are too stupid to know what you are doing, and yes THAT is "ad hominem").

Many of the "OH but there was NO sex..." camp are the same people who I have seen loudly protest that their kink isn't based on sex. No....their M/s relationships are so much MORE than just sex. Power sharing relationships, a whole BIG universe of emotions that include, but are surely not based on sex.

So all of you who so vociferiously say things like "There was no dildo hanging there" or "his penis wasn't in her ear" (interesting, that one). WHICH IS IT? Is the only display of D/s that you acknowledge purely sexual? If so, then apparently your kink is all about sex. Is a clearly kink statement made in front of (and yes, to shock, the "straights") imposing YOUR kink on non-consensual others?

...OR are your protestations about "its NOT all about sex" just bunk, and in fact you are all about, and only about, sex?

Well, hypocrites. I'm waiting.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 9:20:45 PM

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Asher, God Of Cookiedom

So...I just read your signature line and I have some questions... I've always wanted to do this.. just never thought I'd get the chance.

So, why is it that when I take an oreo cookie apart, that sometimes the frosting in the middle doesn't all wind up on one side?

And why do chocolate chip cookies taste better with milk?

And.. why is it that when I open a commercial bag of chocolate chip cookies, the first few are always broken?

And.. and and and ... why does chocolate chip cookie dough taste even better than the cookies themselves?

Why do you make these things happen?

I've just always wanted to know...and well, since I FINALLY have the God of Cookiedom right here to ask... I just wanna know... WHY?

juliet

Well as you seem to be a good worshipper I will answer you:
1.So, why is it that when I take an oreo cookie apart, that sometimes the frosting in the middle doesn't all wind up on one side?
~Oreo cookies get very lonely without frosting, and since frosting has such a caring nature, it doesnt want to make either side unhappy
2. And why do chocolate chip cookies taste better with milk?
~This one is simple, have you ever seen the goddess of milk? shes hot (and human-looking)
3.And.. why is it that when I open a commercial bag of chocolate chip cookies, the first few are always broken?
~I have gotten this question a lot and the answer is thus... The people making those bags are Heretics... Plain and simple.
4. And.. and and and ... why does chocolate chip cookie dough taste even better than the cookies themselves?
~This is to give the person making the cookies a special treat, so that cookies always get made!
Spread the word

_____________________________

Asher, God Of Cookiedom

This man is a fraud. The Goddess of Milk is Elsie. And she's a cow. A really, really hot cow.

E.

I'm from Wisconsin, where men are men, and cows are...nervous.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Asherdelampyr)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 9:35:08 PM

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

FR: On the other hand, if you loudly profess that you believe ONLY in consensual kink (which I suspect all of the people reading this note do profess) then weren't the "Owner and pet" forcing their kink on everyone on the bus? Clearly, the bus driver didn't consent to being subject to their kink. And I bet many passengers and passers-by didn't consent, either.

It's very interesting that you bring this up. While I don't really have all of the particulars on this case of the leash and the bus, it sounds as though this couple's forcing of their lifestyle non-consensually inflammed others to the point of inciting violence. The violence is inexcusable, but so is the violation of one of our basic tenets of this lifestyle. (Edit: that is, if they really do live as Owner/pet as the article implies. If not, it seems more that they were just doing this sort of thing to shock and attract attention, no?)

This very same subject of forcing one's kink on the public was a topic of conversation among some of us at the NELA Winter Flea in Providence, RI. I was horrified and embarassed for us as a tribe when people used bad judgement to wear skirts with their asses (and cocks) hanging out, walking around questionably street legal, dragging their pets around on leashes with bondage in place (ropes, restraints, whathaveyou) -- all in public areas of open hotels, restaurants, and a convention center where we were not the sole conventioners. I had to look into the eyes of parents and their kids on the street looking at some of "us" and for the first time in my 13 years of doing BDSM, I was embarassed for who and what we were as a collective group that we lost our sense of judgement and taste in the name of being weekend warriors of kink. Perhaps I'm becoming more conservative in my old age, but I don't think that it's fair for us to expect some family to explain to their children what we're doing and why that man was all tied up and being led around by his crotch and in the same breath want "fair and equal treatment." There are some of us who surely don't act as though we are deserving of that consideration.

< Message edited by MisPandora -- 1/23/2008 9:47:10 PM >

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Emperor1956)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 10:03:13 PM

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Joined: 11/25/2007
Status: offline

That is what I thought. Thank you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

quote:

BoundDown: "The couple, who live on benefits in a council house and plan to start a family, have been friends for years."

I'm not from the UK so what does that part about "living on benefits in a council house" mean?

Living in subsidized housing and on welfare. Frankly unnecessary gratuitous information which I suspect was put there to demean the couple.

E

(in reply to Emperor1956)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 10:11:51 PM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

Many of the "OH but there was NO sex..." camp are the same people who I have seen loudly protest that their kink isn't based on sex. No....their M/s relationships are so much MORE than just sex. Power sharing relationships, a whole BIG universe of emotions that include, but are surely not based on sex.

So all of you who so vociferiously say things like "There was no dildo hanging there" or "his penis wasn't in her ear" (interesting, that one). WHICH IS IT? Is the only display of D/s that you acknowledge purely sexual? If so, then apparently your kink is all about sex. Is a clearly kink statement made in front of (and yes, to shock, the "straights") imposing YOUR kink on non-consensual others?

...OR are your protestations about "its NOT all about sex" just bunk, and in fact you are all about, and only about, sex?

Well, hypocrites. I'm waiting.

E.

Wearing cuffs out aren't about sex for me. From the context they are talking about, wearing the leash wouldn't be about sex for me either. It's not my thing but I have worn my leash in public and it had nothing to do with my kink. In fact, leashes really don't do a damn thing for me sexually. Holding his hand isn't about sex. Giving him a kiss in the front yard is honestly a lot more about sex for me than wearing my cuffs out in public but that looks completely "vanilla" and nobody minds.

Why is there a problem with expressing anything having to do with a d/s relationship? I really don't think my cuffs or their leash makes anyone any more uncomfortable than those stupid "Big Johnson" shirts made me yet I would simply look away.

Also, for that matter, why is it ok for the vanilla folks to wear these things as a fashion statement yet when we do so it's a huge sin? I know extremely vanilla girls who actually hate the concept of a power exchange who wear collars and leashes because they dig the punk rock scene. Why do they get to wear what they want? Would it be different if the bus driver had called my friend a freak because she is vanilla?

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/23/2008 10:13:53 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Emperor1956)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 10:23:30 PM

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
I'll have a hard enough time explaining the rest of your Vlad the Impaler and Vampira get-up to the kiddlywinks, without you actually whipping and beating each other in public.

The inability as a parent to explain their outfits, if children were to even ask, is the parent/s' issue not theirs ...

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 10:45:45 PM

Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Asher, God Of Cookiedom

So...I just read your signature line and I have some questions... I've always wanted to do this.. just never thought I'd get the chance.

So, why is it that when I take an oreo cookie apart, that sometimes the frosting in the middle doesn't all wind up on one side?

And why do chocolate chip cookies taste better with milk?

And.. why is it that when I open a commercial bag of chocolate chip cookies, the first few are always broken?

And.. and and and ... why does chocolate chip cookie dough taste even better than the cookies themselves?

Why do you make these things happen?

I've just always wanted to know...and well, since I FINALLY have the God of Cookiedom right here to ask... I just wanna know... WHY?

juliet

Well as you seem to be a good worshipper I will answer you:
1.So, why is it that when I take an oreo cookie apart, that sometimes the frosting in the middle doesn't all wind up on one side?
~Oreo cookies get very lonely without frosting, and since frosting has such a caring nature, it doesnt want to make either side unhappy
2. And why do chocolate chip cookies taste better with milk?
~This one is simple, have you ever seen the goddess of milk? shes hot (and human-looking)
3.And.. why is it that when I open a commercial bag of chocolate chip cookies, the first few are always broken?
~I have gotten this question a lot and the answer is thus... The people making those bags are Heretics... Plain and simple.
4. And.. and and and ... why does chocolate chip cookie dough taste even better than the cookies themselves?
~This is to give the person making the cookies a special treat, so that cookies always get made!
Spread the word

_____________________________

Asher, God Of Cookiedom

This man is a fraud. The Goddess of Milk is Elsie. And she's a cow. A really, really hot cow.

E.

I'm from Wisconsin, where men are men, and cows are...nervous.

How dare you try to besmirch my good name!!! May your cookies be as dry as the desert sun

_____________________________

Pirate King,

The nicest man you'll ever bleed for

Posting Help

Vitam Piratae Eligo

The Rainmaker

(in reply to Emperor1956)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 11:08:27 PM

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

If two lawyers were debating constitutional law, would it be acceptable for the bus driver to eject them as "freaks"?

Yes!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to celticlord2112)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 11:30:46 PM

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

ShaktiSama got it so right, that I hesitate to post more.

No, she was sooooo wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956
Many of the "OH but there was NO sex..." camp are the same people who I have seen loudly protest that their kink isn't based on sex. No....their M/s relationships are so much MORE than just sex. Power sharing relationships, a whole BIG universe of emotions that include, but are surely not based on sex.

In my experience, successful relationships are always based on something besides sex. Are we to conclude that your relationships are exclusively based on sex?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956
So all of you who so vociferiously say things like "There was no dildo hanging there" or "his penis wasn't in her ear" (interesting, that one). WHICH IS IT? Is the only display of D/s that you acknowledge purely sexual? If so, then apparently your kink is all about sex. Is a clearly kink statement made in front of (and yes, to shock, the "straights") imposing YOUR kink on non-consensual others?

Err...what "statement"? Did I miss in the article where the couple were charter members of the Master/pet Anti-Defamation League? Since when is non-conformity a "statement" of anything?

_____________________________

(in reply to Emperor1956)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/23/2008 11:32:51 PM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Err...what "statement"? Did I miss in the article where the couple were charter members of the Master/pet Anti-Defamation League? Since when is non-conformity a "statement" of anything?

I dunno but I'm starting to think that people give others a lot more credit for making statements than is actually deserved.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to celticlord2112)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/24/2008 1:14:13 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I'm with the Driver in this case, if she wants to stand on her soapbox and proclaim to the world that she is his "pet", the Driver, following the "no pets allowed" regulation, had every right to deny "Master & Pet" service.

If he had simply left it at "sorry, no pets allowed," that argument might fly to some extent. But adding in "freaks" and a minor altercation kind of shoots it out of the air straight away. And there's a difference between a human pet and a dog, so it'd be more pertinent if they were doing canine pet play or some other non-human pet lifestyle.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to subrob1967)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/24/2008 1:19:00 AM

Posts: 3636
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

How dare you try to besmirch my good name!!! May your cookies be as dry as the desert sun

You are a harsh, harsh man Ash.

_____________________________

if at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you

Resident Whip Cracker AND Resident Orbs Of Joy.

(in reply to Asherdelampyr)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/24/2008 2:00:28 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

[...] but so is the violation of one of our basic tenets of this lifestyle.

Care to hand me a copy of the BDSM constitution?

Last I checked, "thou shalt not express thy affection in public in a legal manner" was not a universally recognized tenet.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to MisPandora)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/24/2008 3:09:22 AM

Posts: 318
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

I am very much with Aswad, and those in similar vein, on this one. As a white anglo-saxon protestant I have not met much discrimination against myself.

But I tend to be quite demonstrative with girls, in private or in public; I have met verbal name-calling, obscene gestures and threatened violence when doing so out publicly with a Chinese girl, with an asian girl, with transsexuals and with girls dressed in unconventional ways.

Choosing to not do so publicly, self-censoring my own behaviour solves nothing for me or anyone else, indeed it would make me feel that I'm a hypocrite.

Most importantly it would be very hurtful to the girl concerned, in a very damaging way; "he cuddles me in priivate, but is ashamed to do so in public, I bet he would if I were white/a real girl/etc.".

If it is OK for me to show affection publicly when I am with a 'real' white girl, then it should be publicly acceptable for me to show it with any other girl, or indeed a man, regardless of their race or orientation.

So I do it, not to defy convention, not for self-publicity, not as a provocation, but because it is in these small acts of assertion that you define yourself, your pride in what you are, your right to be different and your (and your companion's) right to be who you are.

Exactly the same logic should be applied in this case. It would have been OK to hold hands or walk arm in arm, the leash means the same to them.

And yes I am with the OP; the fact that it 'is' news and that the bus company, etc. backed down is very good news for everybody, a measure of how far we've come; and to an extent, how far we have yet to go.

< Message edited by sirguym -- 1/24/2008 3:10:30 AM >

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/24/2008 4:23:35 AM

rukna

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Bangalore
Status: offline

whats sick is this picture
http://psyriac.com/2008/01/05/disturbing-on-so-many-levels/
how can a mother put an infant on a leash?
consenting adults is ok, but kids is a strick no no

_____________________________

for daily dose of humor visit
http://www.enagar.com/

(in reply to TenchiRyokoMuyo)

RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 1/24/2008 4:40:52 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rukna

whats sick is this picture
http://psyriac.com/2008/01/05/disturbing-on-so-many-levels/
how can a mother put an infant on a leash?
consenting adults is ok, but kids is a strick no no

Better on a leash than dead.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to rukna)

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