RE: Master and pet banned from the bus

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RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 3/7/2008 10:59:08 PM

ForcefuIHands

Posts: 47
Joined: 11/28/2005
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I cannot believe this thread is still going. Honestly.

If I'm chipping in my two cents, then it's going to be for the couple, hands down. I have been in poly relationships where I have taken pets to a theme park, and albeit discreetly, both were bound both to me and each other, and released to take turns sharing partnerships on two-person rides. If anyone observed us, then no, I can't say I care about how emotionally damaging the idea of someone being put on or taken off a leash is to them. We were three people enjoying a day in a public place where we had a right to be. There wasn't explicit sexual behavior going on, and observers are going to weigh that kind of behavior as they will...

Maybe as a smoker I have become immune to caring anything about what someone thinks when I step outside for a casual cigarette. I'm sure it offends some people, who later go off and whine about unproven results of secondhand smoking. If that makes them able to cope with the horribly traumatic experience of seeing someone smoke, or breathe in two seconds of stale air, then that is their issue. That's why they make the internet, so anti-social people who can't deal with going out in public can stay huddled in their corners and not have to deal with other adults making decisions and living their lives.

As "immature" as it might be to flaunt that kind of relationship, they are both consenting adults in the UK. If they want to wear balloon poodle hats, they shouldn't have to worry about the reactions of someone over sensitive to once having been bitten by a small dog. If people are so unable to cope, to the point where they can't laugh at these two like they properly deserve, then they need to hole themselves up and away from the damaging influence of other people making choices.

I don't care if the girl was walking funny because of a dildo in her nethers, she should be allowed to pay for a bus ride. What does some other anonymous crybaby morals have to matter when it comes to paying for simple transportation?

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

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RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 3/7/2008 11:21:25 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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Touching concern for offending others, Shakti.

I put up with people smoking so I have to leave the bus stop to stand in the rain, and then put up with their undisciplined kids screaming their lungs out on the bus, before I get to work and have to listen to tasteless jokes about drowning kittens and setting fire to ghosts (a term (translated) which denotes a woman in Burkha, somewhat similar in connotation to "nigger," except Muslims are the politically correct group to insult these days) from techs with BO issues and bosses with swollen egos who refuse to communicate without an intermediary who gets both sides (that would be me).

Others can put up with a collar and leash; we'll just have to disagree on this point.

By the way, it doesn't have the context up here that it does over there. At some point, the US must outgrow the legacy of slavery, discrimination and so forth. Letting go of the past doesn't need to mean forgetting it. It just means not giving it continued power over people. Not that we're all that progressive (xenophobia remains an issue, for instance), but when politicians are willing to stake their careers on legalizing poly, and LGBT marriage is on par with straight marriage, something is being done right. About the only thing being done right up here, but that's another topic.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

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RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 3/8/2008 10:11:16 AM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
Others can put up with a collar and leash; we'll just have to disagree on this point.

Yep. My point is not about what others can "put up" with or not. Or what should be permissable in my private life. My point was about public courtesy, which is what the majority of the Leash Uber Alles crowd can't seem to grasp.

However, since my worldview is not grounded in permanent adolescence and its attendent moral narcissism, and I actually do participate on all levels in society--including producing the children that people like you dislike--I'm afraid that we will never agree. I do not want my children to see men or women leashed on the street, any more than I want them to see people beaten on the street or verbally degraded in other ways that some dom/sub teams find amusing; that stuff is dandy at the club later that night, it's just repugnant on the bus.

For the record, I also don't want the kids to see prostitutes working with their clients in an alley, or gay men having sex in broad daylight at the public park. I consider that sort of thing tacky. It is my opinion that expressions of adult sexuality are best reserved for adult company. That opinion will never change.

It is also my opinion that private BDSM pleasures are just that--private pleasures. If they are depicted in art for adults, discussed and enjoyed by adults, and guaranteed as rights of the pursuit of happiness for adults--wonderful. But public busses and parks are "all ages" venues, and as such I believe they require a higher standard of sexual restraint than environments that are set aside for adult behavior.

As for using this issue as a platform for BDSM rights and legitimacy--I'm afraid my views on this are also more traditional. I have found that people who actually want equality and respect from others tend to earn it as much by practicing politeness and recognizing a few basic social norms as by forcing pointless confrontation. Gay men and lesbians seem to earn more respect by being responsible and contributing members of society than by confronting "hets" with graphic sexual behavior in public. It is far easier for people to accept "whatever you want to do in the privacy of your own home" if you have the sense and maturity to do it in the privacy of your own home.

Regardless, reading through some of the replies I can see that there are some interesting counterpoints. I thought the smoking analogy is interesting, for example. I am not a smoker, and I do not allow smoking indoors in my house; I was especially adamant about it when the children were growing, because the health effects of having smokers in the home are proven.

I do not hate smokers or think they have no moral right to smoke in their own homes or cars, and I am used to smoking being allowed in some sections of restaurants and most bars, given where I live at present. In Vancouver, however, smoking was by definition an outdoor activity--it was illegal indoors in a public place, on buses, etc.. A much-resented imposition on a perceived right to smoke, of course, but in Vancouver it was a worker's rights issue--men and women who worked in these "high-smoke" environments were suffering significantly increased risks of cancer and emphysema, regardless of whether they smoked themselves.

Anyhoo, there is obviously a boundary between individual rights and the rights of the general public that has to be drawn somewhere. I would agree with those of you who say that BDSM expression should not be legally forbidden in public. *shrug* Whether we choose to exercise some self-restraint is up to us, obviously.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

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RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 3/8/2008 10:44:03 AM

angelbluewingsz

Posts: 324
Joined: 10/10/2004
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I'm from a city in AZ where if you smoke in a bar or restaurant your ass gets a fine for your first offence- and the establishments owner too if they have not kicked your ass out for having the balls to light up in the presence of others..... that being said I don't remember ever hearing of anyone getting a fine for having their pets on a leash... maybe I am in the dark on this one but I say live and let live.... if they aren't hurting anyone else then they should be able to do what the hell ever they want.

Earth is full.. Go home!

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

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RE: Master and pet banned from the bus - 3/8/2008 4:26:23 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

My point was about public courtesy, which is what the majority of the Leash Uber Alles crowd can't seem to grasp.

Yup. And I do try to be courteous, including being the one to go out into the pouring rain rather than ask the smoker to stop, for instance. But I also draw a line at not expressing the same level of affection and emotional attachment as other people get to display.

quote:

However, since my worldview is not grounded in permanent adolescence and its attendent moral narcissism

Are you positing that my worldview is?

quote:

including producing the children that people like you dislike

I didn't say I dislike children. I said I dislike their shrill screaming. Not all kids do that. It depends on the parent.

quote:

I do not want my children to see men or women leashed on the street

If I eventually get to the point in life where I consider it responsible to add children to my life, I want them to see the world they will be living in, warts and all. And I want them to be exposed to other ways of life than my own, and to understand that people should be allowed to live differently from each other if they choose, and that this consideration also applies to themselves. I do not want them to think that seeing a woman in a leash is something dirty or horrible, but rather to see it for what it is: an affectation, and a way some people express their relationships.

quote:

For the record, I also don't want the kids to see prostitutes working with their clients in an alley, or gay men having sex in broad daylight at the public park.

I don't mind them seeing prostitutes, and around these parts, they don't do their work in an alley. There is no reason in my mind to pass on stigma against prostitutes to my kids. Which is not to say I would like them to take it up as a profession when they grow up, but neither do I want them looking down on people who sell sex, regardless of whether they do so out of need or choice.

quote:

It is my opinion that expressions of adult sexuality are best reserved for adult company.

To counter that argument would cross a few lines in the TOS, but have you read up on the covariation between sexual repression and the incidence of sexual pathologies between cultures? I would reserve my own expressions of sexuality for the privacy of my own bedroom, no kids present, but that is a matter of my comfort zones and legality, not a matter of what is healthy for the child.

quote:

It is also my opinion that private BDSM pleasures are just that--private pleasures.

Nobody was discussing pleasures here, but rather a symbol of affection and bonding.

quote:

I have found that people who actually want equality and respect from others tend to earn it as much by practicing politeness and recognizing a few basic social norms as by forcing pointless confrontation.

No offense, but I've made that argument with you before, and you refuted it then.

Why does it suddenly hold weight when the views in question are your own?

quote:

Anyhoo, there is obviously a boundary between individual rights and the rights of the general public that has to be drawn somewhere.

Agreed. I prefer to see the line drawn at "your freedom to swing your arm about stops at my nose."

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

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