quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

When you are in this lifestyle, you must keep certain things from the public because they do not understand it.

A few decades back, if you were black, you had to be seated in the back of the bus, because the public didn't understand you were the same as a white person on the inside. Fast forward a bit, then if you were gay, you had to keep it from the public, because they didn't understand that this does not impair your qualities as a human, or threaten the validity of their own relationships...[snip]...

Health,
al-Aswad.

quote:

I will be the black sheep and take exception to your post here. Although I agree with your statement as a generality, I fail to see what this has to do with the treatment or sentiments regarding the young couple in the story. Anyone who has read my posts here - and I know you have - should have no doubt that I stand for equality for all people, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation. I'm not convinced that is the issue here. Equality is proffered and defended with regards to who we are and how we choose to exercise our rights under the Constitution. Equality does not - and should it? - extend to personal behavior. It is this couples behavior that is in question here, not the fact that they identify as Goth or anything else. The litmus test for equality should be whether or not the same standards apply to everyone. If holding hands in public is acceptable for one group, it should be acceptable for all. I can think of at least a few behaviors that would not be acceptable by anyone in public. Would I have been treated any differently if I had been led around by a leash with manicured nails, wearing an Evan-Picone suit and Stuart Weitzman pumps? I am fine debating whether or not this behavior should be acceptable. I am less sympathetic discussing whether or not they were treated fairly.

1. The bus driver involved in the altercation was apparently off duty.
2. No mention of policy or rules for riding the bus was made--if the leash posed a safety or other policy issue, that was not stated. Nor was it reported the couple were cited for disturbing the peace or other infraction.
   
3. The bus driver called the couple "freaks"
4. The bus driver allegedly assaulted Dani Graves

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

FR:  On the other hand, if you loudly profess that you believe ONLY in consensual kink (which I suspect all of the people reading this note do profess) then weren't the "Owner and pet" forcing their kink on everyone on the bus?   Clearly, the bus driver didn't consent to being subject to their kink.  And I bet many passengers and passers-by didn't consent, either. 

I'm not condoning the bus driver's conduct, mind you.  First, he's a public employee and his job is to drive the bus, not impose his values.  Second, the bus driver apparently became violent, which is deplorable.  He should be sacked.  BUT I repeat, the kinky (and now gratifyingly public) couple has some explainin' to do -- unless of course nonconsensual D/s play is OK with you.

E.

"You gotta stand for something, or you'll fall for anything."

Yeah well.  Consentuality is just a word thrown around without anyone really understanding it's concept to try and make wiitwd come across as all ok and cool because it's 'supposedly consensual'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

FR:  On the other hand, if you loudly profess that you believe ONLY in consensual kink (which I suspect all of the people reading this note do profess) then weren't the "Owner and pet" forcing their kink on everyone on the bus?   Clearly, the bus driver didn't consent to being subject to their kink.  And I bet many passengers and passers-by didn't consent, either. 

quote:

I'm not condoning the bus driver's conduct, mind you.  First, he's a public employee and his job is to drive the bus, not impose his values.  Second, the bus driver apparently became violent, which is deplorable.  He should be sacked.  BUT I repeat, the kinky (and now gratifyingly public) couple has some explainin' to do -- unless of course nonconsensual D/s play is OK with you.

E.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr


I have formal training.. and specialize in Regional French Cuisine as well as Italian and Indian.

My family comes from the food and resturant biz. *smiles*

Gwyn,
never trust a skinny cook as my ma-ma always said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr


I have formal training.. and specialize in Regional French Cuisine as well as Italian and Indian.

My family comes from the food and resturant biz. *smiles*

Gwyn,
never trust a skinny cook as my ma-ma always said.

Damn... Pasta goodness... even the thought makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

GREAT post Aswad...

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

Too bad you did not quote my entire post because it basically said the same thing.

quote:

It is sad that people in this world view people by what they look like and not who they really are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

I will be the black sheep and take exception to your post here.

quote:

I'm not convinced that is the issue here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa
You are evolving!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Well Said!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa
You are evolving!

I will join you in that standing ovation, and kindly request that you do your clapping from the podium, as this was an excellent post.



Health,
al-Aswad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

When it gets hard to explain to a child, that's where the public display should stop.

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

I will be the black sheep and take exception to your post here. Although I agree with your statement as a generality, I fail to see what this has to do with the treatment or sentiments regarding the young couple in the story. Anyone who has read my posts here - and I know you have - should have no doubt that I stand for equality for all people, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation. I'm not convinced that is the issue here. Equality is proffered and defended with regards to who we are and how we choose to exercise our rights under the Constitution. Equality does not - and should it? - extend to personal behavior. It is this couples behavior that is in question here, not the fact that they identify as Goth or anything else. The litmus test for equality should be whether or not the same standards apply to everyone. If holding hands in public is acceptable for one group, it should be acceptable for all. I can think of at least a few behaviors that would not be acceptable by anyone in public. Would I have been treated any differently if I had been led around by a leash with manicured nails, wearing an Evan-Picone suit and Stuart Weitzman pumps? I am fine debating whether or not this behavior should be acceptable. I am less sympathetic discussing whether or not they were treated fairly.

Based on what was reported in the news article, equality/discrimination is very much the issue.

1. The bus driver involved in the altercation was apparently off duty.
   
2. No mention of policy or rules for riding the bus was made--if the leash posed a safety or other policy issue, that was not stated. Nor was it reported the couple were cited for disturbing the peace or other infraction.
   
3. The bus driver called the couple "freaks"
   
4. The bus driver allegedly assaulted Dani Graves

If the facts of the matter are as reported, then the couple was not disturbing the peace, nor were they violating a bus company rule, but were violently ejected from the bus merely because of their appearance.  That is discrimination in its ugliest, meanest, foullest form.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

I will be the black sheep and take exception to your post here.

Seeing as I'm the Black Man, it seems only fitting to bandy words with the Black Sheep.
But, seriously, though, I do appreciate it, and will not be correcting anything.

quote:

I'm not convinced that is the issue here.

Let's break it down to the pure basics, then:

Is the shared right you are referring to the right to hold hands?
Or is it the right to express affection for someone?
Is it the style, or the substance, that matters?
Would rubbing noses be indecent?
(Eskimo reference.)

Because I think few people have ever objected to gay men having vaginal intercourse, for instance.
Oddly, gay men were not the least bit content with sticking to vaginal intercourse.
Perhaps that makes it clear where our disagreement is at?

Health,
al-Aswad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

Ugghhh...I'm not following you here. You lost me. I was trying to explain that the reaction this couple received was due to their behavior which cannot be construed as discriminatory if the behavior is universally unacceptable. I'm not quite sure what you were trying to say above. Help me out?

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

I will be the black sheep and take exception to your post here. Although I agree with your statement as a generality, I fail to see what this has to do with the treatment or sentiments regarding the young couple in the story. Anyone who has read my posts here - and I know you have - should have no doubt that I stand for equality for all people, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation. I'm not convinced that is the issue here. Equality is proffered and defended with regards to who we are and how we choose to exercise our rights under the Constitution. Equality does not - and should it? - extend to personal behavior. It is this couples behavior that is in question here, not the fact that they identify as Goth or anything else. The litmus test for equality should be whether or not the same standards apply to everyone. If holding hands in public is acceptable for one group, it should be acceptable for all. I can think of at least a few behaviors that would not be acceptable by anyone in public. Would I have been treated any differently if I had been led around by a leash with manicured nails, wearing an Evan-Picone suit and Stuart Weitzman pumps? I am fine debating whether or not this behavior should be acceptable. I am less sympathetic discussing whether or not they were treated fairly.

Based on what was reported in the news article, equality/discrimination is very much the issue.

1. The bus driver involved in the altercation was apparently off duty.
   
2. No mention of policy or rules for riding the bus was made--if the leash posed a safety or other policy issue, that was not stated. Nor was it reported the couple were cited for disturbing the peace or other infraction.
   
3. The bus driver called the couple "freaks"
   
4. The bus driver allegedly assaulted Dani Graves

If the facts of the matter are as reported, then the couple was not disturbing the peace, nor were they violating a bus company rule, but were violently ejected from the bus merely because of their appearance.  That is discrimination in its ugliest, meanest, foullest form.

But they were not ejected from the bus for their appearance, which I agree would be discrimination. They were ejected because of their behavior, i.e., one leading the other by a leash. People here are crying foul because they are saying this couple received unequal treatment. I am asking, 'How so?' I look pretty spiffy when dressed in all my trappings of success, and I would have been ejected from the bus if someone had been leading me by a leash, don't you think? I am not questioning whether or not this behavior should be acceptable. Honestly, I don't know. My feelings are mixed. But, I don't believe they were treated unfairly. That's all I'm trying to say here.

For the record, I don't condone the actions of the bus driver, and I do believe there was probably some prejudice that fueled the bus drivers actions. But, it doesn't change my opinion on the issue of equality being debated here.