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Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't enj... - 2/5/2008 8:21:49 AM   
charlotte12


Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline 		Confusing enough of a title for you?

I was going to post this in the Ask a Submissive section but realized it might be nice to hear from all sides on this.

Master wrote something in THIS thread that really resonated with me.  (I linked to his post, since the thread is quite long.) When responding to him and to something cherry wrote I had a lot of thoughts going and wanted to ask others about their experiences with doing things they don't enjoy.  I've said to Master many a time "Many of the things I enjoy I enjoy because I dont' enjoy them."  It makes perfect sense to me but I'm wondering if others enjoy this side of D/s. 

The example being discussed on the other thread was being shared with others but I realize this can be a complicated topic so I'll try to use a much more simple example.  He mentioned buying me dog food once.  My first thought was eeeewwwwww and then I noticed a shiver running through my whole body.  I don't imagine I would ever actually enjoy eating dog kibble but being made to do things that make me scared, or upset or bring me to tears makes me feel somehow deeply content.  It reminds me of my place with him and it allows me to fight and struggle and go through all sorts of inner turmoil and experience strong emotions and when I finally relent, let go and revel in his power over me I feel more alive than ever before.  I would be very unhappy in a relationship where someone was not willing to make me do things I didn't enjoy.

So my question is if there are any submissives out there that might share their thoughts or experiences on suffering for their Dom/Master.  Not light pain play that one actually finds enjoyable or being pushed to do something that one does in fact want to do but truly being brought to tears or made to do something you would fight tooth and nail to avoid if you weren't trying to submit to another. 

And are there any Doms/Masters out there that enjoy doing this with their submissive/slaves that would like to share how it makes you feel.  Not pushing them past a limit that you know they will ultimatly enjoy but making them do something you know they won't enjoy.

Just to note I am of course talking about consenting situations.  Master knows that even if I dont' enjoy a particular acitivity, by making me do this activity he is not doing anything to me that I didn't actively seek out.  He knows the things that would hurt me emotionally and steers clear of such damaging things.  I'm talking about the difference between both parties enjoying the actual acitivity that is occuring and both parties enjoying the power exchange that is occuring. 

Also, I have seen discussions where people debate whether you have do do things you don't enjoy to truly submit.  I don't want it to seem like I'm in that camp at all.  I realize that I might be on an extreme with this and am simply relating my own experience and am curious to hear what others think or their experience with this kind of interaction.  I certainly don't think that to submit fully or be enslaved there is some requirement that the Dom make the submissive do unpleasant things.  I am just saying it is a big part of who I am and would like to open up a discussion with others on this topic.  I usually like to just read the boards and I find myself gaining a lot of insight from the comments.  This topic has been on my mind so I thought I would actually start my own post and see what comes of it.

Happy Tuesday.

charlotte

*edited for linkage issues.


< Message edited by charlotte12 -- 2/5/2008 8:54:07 AM >

_____________________________

Stephan's slaveling

"I'm not superior, I'm just more important." Master (Stephann)

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 8:29:37 AM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		Emotional masochism, welcome to the club.

(in reply to charlotte12)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 8:37:25 AM   
AMaster


Posts: 814
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline 		It makes perfect sense to me.  Doing only things you enjoy is not submission.

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 8:51:23 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		Sure you just described me to perfection.

I am submissive in my behavior to a loved one because of my personality. I am a slave to my Master in a severe power exchange relationship because I love the power exerted over me. I love the domination.

So the things done or order for me to do that stray from day to day life that I do not enjoy and that he knows I do not enjoy is the sexual turn on. Power is my fetish not the individual acts and how I relate to them. It is one of the reasons I am drawn to sadist while not having a masochistic bone in my body.

Acts of domination cannot get enough of them!


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to charlotte12)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 8:55:39 AM   
charlotte12


Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

Sure you just described me to perfection.

I am submissive in my behavior to a loved one because of my personality. I am a slave to my Master in a severe power exchange relationship because I love the power exerted over me. I love the domination.

So the things done or order for me to do that stray from day to day life that I do not enjoy and that he knows I do not enjoy is the sexual turn on. Power is my fetish not the individual acts and how I relate to them. It is one of the reasons I am drawn to sadist while not having a masochistic bone in my body.

Acts of domination cannot get enough of them!




Ah ha!  Thank you for that response.  That says what I was trying to say in one simple clear sentance. :)

charlotte


_____________________________

Stephan's slaveling

"I'm not superior, I'm just more important." Master (Stephann)

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 8:55:45 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Absolutely charlotte I revel in doing things I don't enjoy - because I am allowed to.  However, I don't enjoy them because am beyond my comfort zone but because I understand there is a purpose behind it. I don't have to know nor understnad the purpose, I just obey.
What I see sometimes, is that people focus on the action, chore, order etc instead of the submission itself(if that makes any sense).  For me, its not the action you are doing that matters, it is the purpose behind it.  I don't see it necessarily as being about doing things I wouldn't usually enjoy, I see it as obeying, regardless because it's him.  It's having faith in a way and a belief in him.  The authority he has gives me the shivers.
 
Unlike prolific though, I don't view it as emotional masochism.  But there is euphoria.(If that makes sense)
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 2/5/2008 8:56:59 AM >

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 8:57:14 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I like getting pushed out of my personal comfort zone.  I like being made to do things that I'd never have done if he didn't desire it, it makes me hot to be put in situations that I wouldn't choose for myself.  There is just something mind blowing to think before hand about the task or the action and inwardly repell from the idea but to put myself into his hands and when it's over to know that I can do it or endure it and suddenly it's not just that I endured it but that I physically responded to it and would gladly do it again.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to AMaster)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 8:58:30 AM   
Shawn1066


Posts: 987
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline 		I enjoy things I previously didn't enjoy, because of the circumstances involved.  The circumstances have changed, so my perspective has changed.

DV's Fox

(in reply to RCdc)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 8:58:32 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charlotte12

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

Sure you just described me to perfection.

I am submissive in my behavior to a loved one because of my personality. I am a slave to my Master in a severe power exchange relationship because I love the power exerted over me. I love the domination.

So the things done or order for me to do that stray from day to day life that I do not enjoy and that he knows I do not enjoy is the sexual turn on. Power is my fetish not the individual acts and how I relate to them. It is one of the reasons I am drawn to sadist while not having a masochistic bone in my body.

Acts of domination cannot get enough of them!




Ah ha!  Thank you for that response.  That says what I was trying to say in one simple clear sentance. :)

charlotte



I have to secomd that.  Perfectly said.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to charlotte12)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 8:58:44 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AMaster

It makes perfect sense to me.  Doing only things you enjoy is not submission.


I would disagree with you there, but it's all good.
What if the Master decides to only instruct their submissive to only do things they know their submissive type enjoys?  Maybe that's their Masters thang? 
Submission is submitting to your dominants desires, and if the dominants desires are to inflict infinite pleasure you would enjoy, that is all that matters, not whether one is enjoying or not.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to AMaster)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 8:59:50 AM   
charlotte12


Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline 		Yes that does make sense the.dark.  I agree that I often see people focus on the action instead of the submission which is why I wanted to start this thread.   Not that a focus on the actions is bad but it's not how we approach things. 

I would however agree with the definition emotional masochism for myself because for me to acheive that sense of euphoria I first experience the emotional pain.  I crave that emotional pain and to be able to relax into it just a pain slut craves the physical pain to get to subspace. 

Thank you for the statement about it being a focus on the obedience rather than the action though.  Good point. :)


_____________________________

Stephan's slaveling

"I'm not superior, I'm just more important." Master (Stephann)

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

(in reply to RCdc)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 9:12:04 AM   
charlotte12


Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AMaster

It makes perfect sense to me.  Doing only things you enjoy is not submission.


I would dissagree with such a blanket statement and I was hoping my post would not be interpreted to be saying this.  Yes for me a big part of my slavery is being made to do things I don't enjoy but not everyone has that same emotional masochism going on.  If Master was reducing me to a heap of tears because he just wanted to see me cry I would probably not be happy.  I happen to find immense fulfillment out of certain emotional pain.  I don't think that makes me more submissive than someone who doesn't. 

charlotte


_____________________________

Stephan's slaveling

"I'm not superior, I'm just more important." Master (Stephann)

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

(in reply to AMaster)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 9:12:34 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Your welcome!
On a side note - for me it's not always emotional maochism, thats what I really should have said.  Of course there are moments/times when the euphoria comes from a painful emotional response, but on the whole my euphoria comes from pleasing him, not emotional response itself.  Just depends on so many factors on that particular 'moment'.  But then, I could just be mixing the two up.
 
the.dark. 

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to charlotte12)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 9:16:05 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		i get a deep satisfaction from submitting to things i have no desire for in themselves ... sometimes it allows me that guilty pleasure of something taboo and denied me elsewhere, sometimes it is the sense of achievement from doing something i believed i couldn't do. Most often though the pleasure and joy came from knowing there was a swell of happiness and pride in my Owner. HE would be arroused and fulfilled and pleasured seeing the fruits of His dominance and it was worth doing the distateful, frightening or unpleasant things because of the happiness and pleasure it gave to him.

Charlotte I get your example of dog food ... I still have a dog bowl left over from my last relationship... even the thought of eating out of it at all was horrific at first ... but it built up to eating full blown dog food (perfectly nutritious and totally disgusting for anyone wondering) .. even though it became something regular .. it never became ok for me ... it was always an unpleasant order to complete for him but it gave me more reflected happiness from him than something far more elaborate and "edgy" because he knew how much of a strugle it was  each time he ordered me to do it.

these things in themselves are not always innately pleasurable ... but that we still submit to them ... creates an abstract pleasure for us

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





(in reply to charlotte12)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 9:24:22 AM   
Gleegal67


Posts: 218
Joined: 6/18/2007
From: Phoenix
Status: offline 		Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't enjoy them...oh boy, does that sum it up in a nutshell to me! 
Only the trust that I have in my Sir, will allow me to actually end up enjoying them - eventually!

Things I don't enjoy - and willing to wait to experience because I'm too bloody scared!

Violent Wand (yes I spelled it right in my mind!)
Ghost Hunting (yes I believe, yes I've experienced some "Holy Shit!" moments)
Roller Coasters (never had a fear until I did the Big Shot at the top of the Stratosphere in Vegas)
Needles (if I don't have to experience another needle in my life - that'll be just fine in my world!)

Time to go get the nerve to watch Ghost Hunters.  :: breathing deeply ::

~Always the gleeful one with the hope of no nightmares~

(in reply to charlotte12)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 9:26:38 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

Charlotte I get your example of dog food ... I still have a dog bowl left over from my last relationship... even the thought of eating out of it at all was horrific at first ... but it built up to eating full blown dog food (perfectly nutritious and totally disgusting for anyone wondering) .. even though it became something regular .. it never became ok for me ... it was always an unpleasant order to complete for him but it gave me more reflected happiness from him than something far more elaborate and "edgy" because he knew how much of a strugle it was  each time he ordered me to do it.

these things in themselves are not always innately pleasurable ... but that we still submit to them ... creates an abstract pleasure for us


That was very beautifully written. It really is that reflective dynamic that feeds me emotionally and sexually for my Master.

For him to use me knowing I might struggle and/or take no pleasure in the thing is not only the power fetish I mentioned. It is also that tremendously freeing feeling of love and devotion of knowing if he has no problem doing this to me, let alone takes pleasure in it, then I know he accepts my love and devotion to him on face value. That he is not worrying about doing something because he thinks I want him to do something or worrying about doing something he wants that I will use as emotional blackmail somehow.

Him feeling the freedom to use me how he wants allows me to be free.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 9:30:01 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		smiles .. thankyou ... i dont always make much sense ... am glad it struck a chord with you

there is a purity and honesty in the pleasure we can get from the process of struggling ... not the mechanics of that process .. the individual orders ... but from the soul of it ... the striving to please

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 9:48:27 AM   
charlotte12


Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

smiles .. thankyou ... i dont always make much sense ... am glad it struck a chord with you

there is a purity and honesty in the pleasure we can get from the process of struggling ... not the mechanics of that process .. the individual orders ... but from the soul of it ... the striving to please



Mmm yes that is a wonderful way of putting it and exactly the kind of disctinction I was trying to make.  Thank you for both your responses very much. :)

Toservez I also love what you said about his freedom to use you allows you to be free.  That is the feeling I experience sometimes and it certainly is wonderful.

Thank you everyone for your comments.  I really appreciate everyone's responses.  I don't have time to respond to everyone right now but it has been most insightful to read others feelings on this.  I often can't express myself well and find that reading other people's thoughts gives me a perspective to try to understand myself.

charlotte


_____________________________

Stephan's slaveling

"I'm not superior, I'm just more important." Master (Stephann)

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 9:55:18 AM   
Skully7000


Posts: 377
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline 		similar wavelengths:
when my friends and I go on trips nights out on the town sometimes adventures don't go as planned. sometimes they turn pretty disasterous. and while its not always the case quite often I'm the most upbeat and smiling and giddy one out of the group during some of the worst times. my friends getting mad at me for trying to keep moral Raised while all this is happening...

All I can think about is: "DAMN this is going to make a great story later on!"
I know that I'm not always going to have a good time when I go out. but its the size of the adventure not the overall amount of Fun that makes or breaks a night for me!

****************************************
on the other hand sometimes I just an experience junkie who wants to try something new(something I give Johny Knoxville alot of credit for)

(in reply to softness)
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RE: Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't... - 2/5/2008 9:59:59 AM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		"Power is my fetish not the individual acts and how I relate to them."
I can say I agree with this too. I still consider my leaning more towards a masochism of sorts because it is the intensity of turmoil and conflict that really gets me going. If it was an intensity of happiness I wouldn't feel the same at all. It's the conflict, the agony of breaking through inhibitions that is exciting and results in the end in a sort of freedom feeling. The ending is a relief, but in all honesty it's the turmoil that does it for me, if that could last, I'd probably hang on that cusp as long as humanly possible.
Breaking it down now (I've never given it this much thought indepth) it is a power or lack-there-of fetish I guess. The absolute lack of control, yielding to the Dom's will instead of the inhibitions programmed into me.  It's all very confusing! But very wonderful.
I do need to note however I do focus on the act to a degree, only to heighten the realization and agony of what I'm doing, playing up the discomfort I guess.

Ahh so hard to be clear in words.

(in reply to charlotte12)
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