quote:

I find it inaccurate to say that men cannot understand as deeply or as emotionally as women do when they are together - because they do - they just choose to express it in a different way. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

A bitch is woman who won't fuck me.

Jeff

quote:

 The sweetest woman in the world
Could be the meanest woman in the world
If you make her that way
You keep hurting her
She'll keep being quiet
She might be holding something inside
That'll really, really hurt you one day

quote:

Cool - though it's a shame you couldn't come in earlier.

quote:


It might have prevented otherwise less scholarly opinions from being voiced.

quote:


If females fight out their frustrations in a highly regulated fighting game... why not?

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

quote:

Cool - though it's a shame you couldn't come in earlier.

Agreed. Unfortunately, while having witnessed the behaviors mentioned in the OP, my life has caused a lack of experience on either end of the spectrum, making it difficult to surmise a decent response.

quote:


It might have prevented otherwise less scholarly opinions from being voiced.

 
Possibly, but I doubt it; based strictly on the personality type the behavior in question is most often exhibited by. I should add; I believe all personality types have an upside and a downside. I think this behavior, in general, is an over zealousness of exhibiting particular personality traits.
 
Perhaps that is what all difficult to resolve conflict is really about.
 
My point of view comes from having read, minimally and not limited too, though, on the thoughts of both Fraud and Jung. I find Fraud’s ideas to be useful in finding at what point I started having a particular perspective, but Jung’s ideas on perspective work best in overcoming a faulty one.

quote:


If females fight out their frustrations in a highly regulated fighting game... why not?

 

While the comment was made to lighten the air a bit, I think the idea holds some validity. (More then I realized when I said it). My thoughts were running more towards having common experiences. I thought of wrestling not only because of the physical exertion, but because it is a contact sport and mud (actual substance optional, including pudding of any flavor) because a wonderful thing happens when you cover a bunch of people in mud; the physical differences aren’t nearly as noticeable, plus everybody looks just a little silly because of it; helps people to lower their guard. The main objective however is to create experiences.
 
All in all though, if you want people to bond/work together; the people in question must find a common ground, allowing each to use their individual abilities, while working toward the same goal.
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

I find it inaccurate to say that men cannot understand as deeply or as emotionally as women do when they are together - because they do - they just choose to express it in a different way. 

I never said that. What I said was :"Men and a few women dont understand the strange bonds women can have with each other ".

I would never suggest that men dont feel. What I suggested is they may not understand our ways with each other or our strange bounds.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
And it is this kind of attitude causes people to be bitchs or bastards or *insertanotherlabelherecozthatsallitis* because myths are perpetuated that 'no one understands' or'men are so different' or 'all women unite' because they just aren't true.  Feminism sucks, racism sucks, hate sucks, fundemental christianity sucks.  And why?  Because they all practise one true wayisms that try and prove that someone, somewhere doesn't understand them because that way it makes it somehow, more 'special'.
 
the.dark.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan
<snip> the moment I start focusing on the rights of one gender as opposed to the other, I am losing my bargaining position and ostracising myself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

I find it inaccurate to say that men cannot understand as deeply or as emotionally as women do when they are together - because they do - they just choose to express it in a different way. 

I never said that. What I said was :"Men and a few women dont understand the strange bonds women can have with each other ".

I would never suggest that men dont feel. What I suggested is they may not understand our ways with each other or our strange bounds.

Ok, then -
I believe it is inaccurate to state that all men cannot understand the bonds women can have with each other.  Thats dismissing the abilities an awful lot of men have.  No - one can understand the personal bond anyone has with anyone else, regardless of their sex or orientation, save the people themselves, because they are such a personal thing.  But men and women can have bonds that go way beyond anything two or more females may have, or visa versa depending on the individuals involved.
 
There is nothing particularly more 'special' about bonds in sexes, in the same breath there is nothing more special about BDSM relationships, or that in any other relationship where people feel a need for one upmanship and to single themselves out from others.  It's the result of inferiority complex issues that result in such claims.  I don't need a relationship, or certain behaviour to define me as being special.  I am special on my own, or with others - I don't suddenly change and become 'more' anything and people cannot understand me more or less just because I have a bond with a certain sex or 'community'.
 
And it is this kind of attitude causes people to be bitchs or bastards or *insertanotherlabelherecozthatsallitis* because myths are perpetuated that 'no one understands' or'men are so different' or 'all women unite' because they just aren't true.  Feminism sucks, racism sucks, hate sucks, fundemental christianity sucks.  And why?  Because they all practise one true wayisms that try and prove that someone, somewhere doesn't understand them because that way it makes it somehow, more 'special'.
 
[size=
4]the.dark.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I disagreed with your sweeping statement.
You clearly stated men and some women.  Pedantic?  Yeah, but that's the bitch I am.
Am I disagreeing that bonds between females are different to bonds between others? In the way you put it - yes.
I believe that any bond, regardless of whether being male or female are all different.  Take two groups of females and both groups will share different bonds, not because they are female but because each person is different.
 
I was answering the OP - are women born bitches?  Or is it a case of they are made?  I have found that it is mostly both to one extent or another, and as this thread has clearly shown, people are perpetuating myths that get kicked around by mostly minority groups that do not hold up to the reality that I have known and that only goes to 'nurture' the next generation and encourage them to do the same instead of educating.
 
Look at the evidence.  Divorce is on the increase.  Many people cannot hold down, let alone form long term relationships.  All it constantly comes down to is second guessing each other and claiming the other sex or race or whatever 'doesn't understand' as well because they are 'men' or 'gay' or 'black' or 'christian'.  Instead of realising that when it comes down to it, everyone is human, everyone is unique and no one can possibly 'get' anyone else 100% of the time, even if they were identical conjoined twins.
 
I don't 'get' you and these close and loving bonds you have with your female friends, not because I am one of these women that don't 'get' it, but because I'm different to you and frankly, not interested in you at all.  And you couldn't possibly claim to 'get' say for example, my relationship and friendship with Red, even if you are her friend, because you don't know or understand me - and making it look like you might, just because you are female, would be one hell of a miconception that you are thrusting on everyone else.  By making the sweeping statement that -

quote:

Men and a few women dont understand these strong bonds that women can have whith each other. Women Feel so deeply and emotionally. Their love for each other is strong and so are all the feelings that are brought forth in us through others words and opinions.

- implies that - unconciously maybe - but you did.  And I haven't taking it out of context.  You did say that men don't understand, that women feel deeply and emotionally.  So do men and again, your paragraph implies that possibly men don't.  Maybe that isn't what you were trying to vocalise, I get that.  But that is how it reads to some people.  I know for a fact that Darcy loves the women in his life, those friends he has that came before me, the old school pals - and who will come after me, the ones that share his passion for all things Numan, that have a beer down the pub - that he has empathy for them because they are human, not because they are women.  I also know he loves the men in his life, the ones he went to school with - who go to gigs with him still and have a beer down the pub because they are human, not because they are men.
 
Because above all things they are friends.  Sex, religon, race or orientation doesn't even factor in why bonds between individuals exist, or why they are special.
 
the.dark.

quote:

Wow! Thanks for disliking me in such a polite manner.
Really this discussion was based on the thread between you and kittensol. You said the thread made you wonder if you subconsciously stayed away from women because they are bitches. Again, I am paraphrasing. Because of course, you are so above that frey..of being a bitch. I'm sure saying you are not interested in me in the least was'nt being bitchy, just polite and honest.

Kittensol evoked a thought in you about maybe staying away from women friendship because of what you percieve as I guess their failings. What you had said about staying away from women consciously or subconsciously evoked quite alot of negative memory in me. it evoked the memory a some mean women. It evoked the memory of a woman bartender at a restaurant I worked at for a short period of time telling me to my face that she thought all women were bithces(except her). She thought women waitstaff were "sloppy". Yes, Its hard to look neat in a tuxedo shirt with those pesky breasts and the fact that women iron their own uniform.

Some women seem to think they have to seperate themselves from other women in an elitist attitude. The QueenBee syndrome of "I am better than all of you ",attitude. frankly, I think that stinks. So whether you intended it that way or not, the fact that you could even hint at the fact that you may seperate yourself from other women, it evoked a bad feeling in me and perhaps in others too.

i never said that men and women dont love having each other in their lives. We adore each other and I NEVER implied otherwise.