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RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:33:01 PM

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This has been a non issue since the beginning of our relationship. Something that rarely ever came up. When it did, He was supportive and never indicated that it was something that bothered him or that he wanted to change. .

Out of the blue, about a month ago, he began a discussion that involves his desire for me " to get over it" and wants me to cease wearing make up publically. His reason is: it is a vanity issue and will be a good lesson in humility for me. He says that I should be comfortable with who I am , not what I look like.

OK, fair is fair I took more thought to paragraph one and you to two, or perhaps you see it so far differently that we are not on the same planet.

Anyone on the net would be foolish to give themselves away totally, of course the subject is not as simplistic as made out in a couple paragraphs.

Perhaps. I am out of line here, but I hardly think so.........

Yet, I may not understand but I will listen.

Really,
Ron

P.S. This shit: wow mnottertail, such sincerity and thoughtfulness in every post i've ever read. i'm not often sarcastic to strangers, but that definitely warrants a rolling of the eyes.
Hurts some, but not much.....I suspect you have never read many of my posts and it didn't hurt enough for me to go find some.

LMAO.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:36:24 PM

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frankly i don't spend all my time on here looking up particular posts, i've just noticed your responses on a few different topics and found a decidedly "not so nice" air to them.

my apologies if i haven't run into the thoughtful, supportive responses by you. i will have to look harder.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:45:47 PM

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Joined: 6/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I am not wont to do this but I will talk about the horse in the room.

Some of you women may know flushing, men actually find that attractive (if a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortinight, it concentrates his mind wonerfully (johnson, i think)) I am sure you want to look your best and you have issues. Well, I am gonna start from fuck and say the man has prolly slept with you and you don't look that bad.

I always talk about age in this.

You are who you are and you look like what you look like and if you cannot live like that in this world then ask your Master to call me and I will beat you if he can't.

He finds you pretty without the mask. You are pretty I warrant, and fat too. So what are you doing about your weight? Obcess on that if you need something to obcess on. Be real with the one you love.

I ain't even fucking joking,
Ron

She is being "real" with the one she loves. She is choosing to look her best when she goes out to face others. I am not sure how that is being "unreal". No one else in the world needs to know that she has a skin condition if she chooses to cover it up and feels comfortable doing so.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:46:37 PM

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Well, who is to say there is not a difference intrarsexual as opposed to intersexual, perhaps you have misconcieved me sir, but we are communicating, is that not so? Perhaps not in a fashion that will meet our respective ends but bantering (if you will permit) nonetheless...........

And now sir, who is to say a convocation in and amongst us is not worthy, what say you sir?
Communication is so difficult at its root and here we are beginning communication...........perhaps others in this thread will take heart.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to petwolf22)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:05:04 PM

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Not my intent to minimize that. On the other hand I will not say that life should revolve around the submissive's comfort. Again this is only the net and neither position here espoused is correct, no?

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:10:44 PM

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i, also, like to wear make-up and try to look my best. i feel His request is completely unreasonable. i wouldn't do it. i'd safety word, set it as a hard limit and there would not be a compromise. i am a girl, also a women. i also happen to be feminine and enjoy it. i think a lot of subs are....i like wearing make-up and looking my best. He should think he is lucky to have someone who takes pride in her appearance. i also, do not go shopping in track-suit pants, as a matter of fact i dont own any, horrible things. i dont go 'barefoot' i think it's feral (except at the beach or other appropriate circumstances of course). My point being, that make-up is only one way amoung others that i use to enhance my looks. Make-up is a tool. Thats all. He doesn't sound very understanding. He should let you be, You have coped with what must have been a difficult enough condition and done so with grace and style. Why does he suddenly feel the need to revamp a dealt with situation that was there before you met him. How come he gets to change the rules? Yes yes, we all know Doms get to do that *yawn* at their whim, but some things are foundations set in concrete. And sometimes, it's just plain rude too.

You sound well-balanced with it. He, on the other hand, sounds like his got issues.

If i seem 'stuck-up' or something then that is someone else's problem, i dont wear make-up riding my horses unless i want too. i, also, don't feel the need to run for cover if i am 'caught' without it. i dont wear make-up every day or when i garden. i always clean my face at night and have a skin care regime.

Perhpas you should stop shaving your legs and under your arms as well. Makes as much sense.

You're feminine. Lucky him, so many these days aren't. It's a dying art. His problem, i think he should deal with it and learn to compliment and appreciate you on your grace and composure.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:14:50 PM

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well so often questions that are posted here get no response from the person on the other side of it....both dominants and submissives don't seem to respond to their partner's issues, at least in this environment.

maybe the dominants whose submissives post on here (and they are aware of it) should either a. give their side to the story, or b. keep the involvement of the submissives on the site to a minimum so that there isn't so much speculation on the part of strangers.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:20:35 PM

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@ mnottertail.
i hope your young. It is the only excuse you could have for being so rude.

Also for being such a jerk.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:22:36 PM

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Thank You all for your words of advice, even mnottertail.

Just to be absolutely clear on this subject. I made it well known, discussed in depth my "public " make up issues and reasons for them. While it was not a stated hard limit it was definately understood to be something that I felt would always be part of my " public" life.

I have absolutely no problem not wearing make up at home, when we attend family functions, when I am with friends who I or he have and know. I own and run a corporate travel agency, I work with the public and some high level corporate officials. IMHO presentation means alot in a competitive business and that goes beyond a nice suit.

As for me having any hidden issues or insecurities about my medical condition, I honestly do not have any. We discussed and talked about this in the early part of the relationship, I explained all I went thru, where I am now and how it changed my life in a positive way. I believe illness is a big ol yellow light, warning you that your present lifestyle isn;t working and you need to correct it to get your body back in sync. I also have a much deeper appreciation for the old saying.. you don't have anything if you don't have your health.

With all due respect mnottertail: you wrote the following:

"Will it kill you or do you have to face an alternative reality? One not of your making and accept other incidence? "

No, it will not kill me. I am curious if you would be so harsh if a Dom<me> were to ask his or her amputee sub to toss out their prostheis. After all, they may as well " face reality". They have no leg. Everyones reality is relative to their experience.
And you are suggesting that in order for ME to accept a reality not of MY making and accept the incidence, I need to expose a physical disfigurement < i use term loosely, out of lack of a better word> to the entire world so they can see it and look oddly at me and ask questions?? I accept my reality very well every time I take my makeup off at the end of a work day.. or on weekends when we are home or out with family and friends and I go au natural. I am not ashamed or embarassed by my blotching with people I know, but to the rest of the world I like to present myself as best I can. Most Dominants I know want their sub to look good when out and about in the world. It is a sense of pride for them. < Just my experience>

In the end, I am not backing down from my position, perhaps he will not either, altho I truely hope so. It is not a lack of respect for him or a desire to be fiesty. I see his insistance on this as an attempt to use a well known, well stated vulnerability as an opportunity to make me feel insecure. I have to question any Dominant who would want to take a relatively emotionally secure sub, and chip at pieces of her emotional wellness.

So again, Thank you all. As I write this post I am seeing and feeling that the damage has already been done. Not in his asking, but in his insistance despite my well stated reasons it would be something that would make me feel uncomfortable and self conscious every moment of my " public/professional" life. And just for the record, he has asked other things of me < publically> that I considered uncomfortable, but did them because he wanted it for me. Some of them are still uncomfortable, but he enjoys it, so I do them to please him.
maybemaybenot

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:29:47 PM

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MNotter is just a misunderstood smartass, much like myself

So, stop picking on him, or I too will have to resort to name calling.

However, for the record, I have disagreed with every post he has made tonight.

Smiles, smartass Kevin

_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:31:12 PM

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Well if I am pleasing to no one else I am at least given attention by you, I hope you can work this out. I have not lived your experience, but it seems to me from what I read so far that your man would like you to get comfortable with yourself in this thing. He finds you pretty. You certainly speak pretty.

I am abjectly sorrowful if I have offended you. If others only think me a jerk than I am treated lightly by people of wafting substance. But to you dear lady, you have my most sincere apology if you have been basely, meanly or rudely treated by me.

Sincerely,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:36:34 PM

perverseangelic

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From: Davis, Ca
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I still don't understand vilifying this individual.

He expects to have control over this area of her life. I don't find this unreasonable. OPERATING SOLELY FROM WITHIN MY PERSPECTIVE it is the perogative of the dominant person to change his/her mind at whim, to expect things of his/her property that aren't expected of the owner, to make the property change something just because he/she wants to.

To be angry at someone for taking on the "total" part of the much touted "TPE" phrase seems like we're jumping on him/her for doing what is -expected-. That is, when individuals search, they often say they want someone who will take compelete control. Why are we criticzing someone for doing that?

That said, it obviously isn't a good fit for the OP. This is not a bad thing! But to say that the man in question is a bad person, or is being unreasonable doesn't jive with me. He's doing what pleases him. In my book, that's the perogative of the dominant person, and it is the job of the submissive person to cater to that pleasure. WITHIN the limits set up in that relationship.

Because this wasn't set as a limit at the outset doesn't mean she should give in. Rather, it means that he isn't evil for believing it was something he could control.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:45:52 PM

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If your Master wants you to walk around without a single drop of makeup on your face, my advice to you would be to simply say Yes Master and obey. He has His reasons, and your only concern should be to obey him and please him in every way you can. We all have our own insecurities, but we need to find ways to get over them and in the long run this will be beneficial to you, don't hesitate or contemplate what to do, just do as you are told. You will be much happier for it in the long run, and most importantly, you will make your Master happy and proud of you.

~Best of luck

Babygirl

(in reply to petwolf22)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:51:57 PM

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You speak challenging words, and I feel in my secret ganglion that they are heartfelt-- so be it. I am a jerk. But not young. That was another day...........it is apparent to me that you have read this thread and not just the last two or three posts. I stand in awe.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to frillsnthrills)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:52:00 PM

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just because they are a Dom does not mean they know everything, and that he is right about this. i won't knock him because i don't know the entire situation, but i see that as kind of a trend, where just because they are a dom makes them right.

(in reply to RandBcouple)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 6:56:55 PM

FelinePersuasion

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quote:

Perhpas you should stop shaving your legs and under your arms as well. Makes as much sense

I know some masters that don't permit their girls to shave any parts be it legs armpits or pussies,frillsnthrills.

(in reply to frillsnthrills)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 7:30:34 PM

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He is absolutely positively not a bad person, a monster, a bad Dom or anything else negative !!!
If I inferred or implied that I apologize. He is a wonderful, caring, loving person, whom I have the utmost respect for.

As for those who have written suggesting he is trying to help me accept or come to terms with my condition..
I have no condition. I am in remission. I have moved on, I have come to terms with it, I have developed a coping mechansism to deal with the few physical scars it has left with me. < make up and a thorough skin regime> Other than that, the only time I even give it a thought is during my weekly home testing to make sure my levels are normal.
Believe me we have had many discussions about this of late. It is not an attempt on my part to "top from the bottom". It is something that has come out of nowhere. AS I said in my OP, when we discussed this early on, he was supportive and understanding. I have asked him if I had a mastectomy with reconstruction, would he make me remove the implants, in order to come to terms with myself or as some lesson in humility. I have asked if I had a glass eye, would he request I flush it down the toilet as an act of humility or to come to terms with it. He has stated no, that is very different from what I am asking. Perhaps it is, but not in my reality. And I see no difference. If I tell someone about my experience, how it affected me and what I have dome to come to terms with it, and they support you in how you did it, why would you want to upset the apple cart ?

You are all correct when you say I should have made it a hard limit. That was a mistake on my part. I would never, ever have thought to make " public exposure of my blotched skin" a hard limit. I don't drink or like coffee either and did not make that a hard limit. I think if I were to make a list of hard limits that encompassed every possible scenario, I would be old and grey before it was done. I, incorrectly, considered it a covered base or an accepted reality of who I was during our early conversations, getting to know what each other was about and what we considered important areas of our lives.

special note to mnottertail... you did not offend me, just a tad harsh. But I am pretty thick skinned * wink*
and thank you for your apology.

maybemaybenot

(in reply to petwolf22)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 8:38:36 PM

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quote:

I refer to myself as somewhat " vain "

quote:

I am very self conscious about this publically

quote:

being self conscious about my skin and the fact that I will not go out pubilically without evening out the irregularities

quote:

As shallow as I may seem to some, this issue is a huge one for me

It's my observation that the statements that you made above are in direct contrast to the statements you made below. Now please do not misunderstand, I am NOT slamming you here. Most all of us have our own particular issues and it really is ok for you to have yours too. Heck, it sounds like you well earned the right to have them.

quote:

I have explained until I am blue in the face that I am comfortable with who I am

quote:

issues or insecurities about my medical condition, I honestly do not have any

quote:

I have no condition

quote:

I have moved on, I have come to terms with it

What I am trying to suggest here is that maybe you don't even realize that the issues you have regarding this are huge (and rightfully so). You do have a condition...a condition of self conciousness.

In your conversations with your Dominant, it may be more beneficial for you to tell him just exactly how huge this is for you, rather than spending all of your energy trying to convince him just how "OK" you are about it. He may have a much different take on the situation if you explain to him just how emotionally painful (and possibly emotionally harmful) this exercise may be for you.

I suspect that his motivations are not born of a desire to be cruel or hurtful to you, but rather a desire to help you to feel more comfortable and less self concious. With that in mind, do you think that an approach that more honestly relates your innermost feelings and fears may get him to better understand and possibly make a different decision in regards to this matter?

As for strangers who may ask you about your "disfigurement", I think this is extremely rude. You owe them no explanations. As a matter of fact, I would politely point that out to them.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 9:21:23 PM

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mistoferin:

I understand your confusion when you break it down that way. So I will attempt to clarify it for you or any one else whom I miscommunicated to.

I am comfortable with my health. I am in remission at the moment so there is no active illness. I have no irrational fears or quirks about my illness. Since I am in a remission, there is no condition to deal with. I have already done that work and now work on maintaining my health.

I am comfortable with WHO I am. I like me.

I said " somewhat" vain. I also said I have no problem, issue or self consciousness being around my Dominat, my friends, his friends or families without make up. We are talking about my professional face and going out socially, where I may run into clients, contacts etc.

I do not like my blotches. I am self conscious about them in public.

My blotches are not my illness. They are a side effect of medication.

My Dominant is not cruel. We have a disagreement.

I have communicated to him my feelings from early on. Of late, I am communicating it regularly. It isn't that he isn't hearing me, or I him.

Yes, it is rude for people to ask such a question, but they do. So the answer is to invite more of this type of rude behavior by showing it off more often, to more people so that the odds of more questions are increased? And my comfort level is decreased?

I am not defending my self consciousness as a " good" thing. But neither is it a "bad" thing. It simpy is what is is, and I am unwilling to go thru the emotional pain/discomfort of tearing down what I have built up, in order to spend alot of stressful and unhappy times to try and figure out a way to build myself back up.

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 9:40:19 PM

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I think the only thing i have to say to all of this, is don't close yourself off to new ideas. Maybe your Dom is trying to tell you, hey i think you are great the way you are. Embrace yourself and see yourself as I see you. I think if you start hardlimiting every thing you feel uncomftorable about, you aren't leaving yourself alot of room to grow. For example, if your Dom said i want you to undress and crawl naked before me, and you said...naww i really don't feel comfy with that, isn't that similar? We all have issues about our bodies, faces, looks, whatever. If you try it, you may find it to be very liberating. You never know until you try. Anyway i will you luck on this, i know its a diffucult thing to go through. I know from my own experience. Peace.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

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