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RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 3:25:02 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Ok, I heard the voice of a man today. Not the voice of a politician, the voice of a man that does not view friends as political assets or libilities. A man that just might believe we are all part of the equation that adds up to America. He has done what I believe shows the world one of America's greatest assets; taking a castatrophy and building something greater. They said he wrote this speech himself, I hope so, I sincerely hope so.

I've waited a long time for a man that is about more than politics. Is that man you Senator Obama? Do you and I share a Home Stone?

Ok Senator, now you have my attention, now I'm listening......

But remember, those claiming a higher standard are held to it. I'm watching you. We all are.

Another man,

Bull
   Just know that one is known by the company he keeps. I've yet to hear him address the preacher who refereed to his mother as "white trash". 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LA8z39Z8PJY&feature=related

(edited to correct the link)

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 3/18/2008 3:35:42 PM >

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RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 3:28:27 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Celticlord I'm not quite sure it's fair to paint the whole church as racist or to set a litmus test of cutting all ties with not just the pastor but now you want him to cut ties with the church


Show me where the church booted out the pastor for his reckless racism and I'll change my stance.  The public commentary I have heard is that the congregation agrees with Wright.  If you agree with racist rhetoric, you're a racist.

So yes, Obama needs to throw out Wright completely.  Wright uttered racist rhetoric on more than one occasion.  Thus, he is a racist.  Based on the extant commentary, the church is racist.  If Obama sits in a racist church, he's a racist.

As much as people want to argue Obama's speech being essential, eventually one has to realize that Obama got it wrong.  Words matter only when supported by action.  I would not give a tinker's damn about Wright's racist rhetoric were it not for the fact that he happens to be a Presidential candidate's pastor.  Obama's words are that he rejected that rhetoric--but continued to accept Wright as his pastor.  That's a contradiction at the most elemental level.

Wright stepped down as a pastor of his own volition.  Nobody forced him to resign, he was not driven in disgrace from the pulpit.  As a consequence, Obama's refusal to reject the man means that Wright would continue as Obama's pastor had he not elected to retire.  Therein lies my problem with Obama's speech.  As nice as it was, as eloquent as he is, he still would sit and receive spiritual teaching from a racist.  Obama's own words confirm this.

Words matter--when acted upon.  Obama speaks--and does nothing.  How is that impressive?


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RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 3:31:17 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		That "preacher" doesn't sound like a preacher.
He sounds like a political hack.

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RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 3:34:58 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		......*sighs*....well if you wont do it then i will........

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


Words matter--when acted upon.  Obama speaks--and does nothing.  How is that impressive?



McCain doesn't speak and also does nothing about his own bigot. That's even less impressive.

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 4:08:28 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		What more could the man have done he repudiated the statements the Reverend made, he affirmed his love and belief in the country while pointing out we still have a ways to go as far as race is concerned he to be held up to a higher standard than the other candidates.After 8 years of a President more concerned with enriching Haliburton cronies and protecting the complicity of Saudi prince's one of this country's worst days, i could vote for this man with a clear conscience(still undecided)

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 4:12:21 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
......*sighs*....well if you wont do it then i will........
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Words matter--when acted upon.  Obama speaks--and does nothing.  How is that impressive?


McCain doesn't speak and also does nothing about his own bigot. That's even less impressive.

philo,
Can't let it be ignored as much as many would like to.

"He's been like family to me" Senator Obama regarding Reverend Wright. He lived in the community, married him to his wife, baptized his children. The Reverend, until recently has been prominent on Senator Obama's website. He was listed as an 'adviser'. Now Reverend Wright has become an 'Orwellian un-person'.

Compare that with, your words, "McCain;s Bigot". His church is in a different state. He's never attended regular service. He has no direct link to the campaign and never did. I tried to find out the equivalent personal pastor in Senator McCain's life, but couldn't find any. An equal comparison would be to find out what's the sermon topic at Senator McCain's Arizona church; where he lives, attends service and donates his $20k/year. If anyone can point me to that information, I'd be appreciative.

However, the question is, you see an endorsement by an out of state pastor and a life long affiliation as equal?

Were I recommending strategy to Senator McCain I'd make sure he doesn't address it. Why? Addressing it legitimizes it. The facts don't lend to a equal comparison for anyone taking the time to look into the details. If the tactic worked, someone could pay the grand dragon of the KKK $10 to support McCain, and use that for propaganda. You can't erase 20 years of history by trying to distract with references to unsolicited endorsements. At least you can't do that with people who actually try to stay informed. Granted that number of 'informed voters' may be shrinking.

PS - STILL won't vote for Senator McCain, but if Senator Obama wants to get this off the campaign as an issue he, his campaign staff, and his supporters, have to address the reality of this VERY close affiliation.  

PPS - Are there still troops and a war going on in Iraq?

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 4:27:16 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

However, the question is, you see an endorsement by an out of state pastor and a life long affiliation as equal?



...no i don't. But we have been talking about responses to such endorsements. Hagee has said that the NOLA tragedy was God punishing gay people. If we're going to hold Obama and McCain to the same standard we ought to compare their responses to their supporters. Obama tried to address the issue. Some are convinced, some are not. McCain just dropped some asinine line about enjoying Hagees support. There's no comparison really.....Obama stood and took it on the chin, McCain ran away.
For me, it's not about how religious or not the candidates are......it's what principles drive them. McCain needs the religious right to stand a chance, so he wont take a principled stand against a bigot who endorses him. Obama at least tried.

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 4:28:41 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

What more could the man have done he repudiated the statements the Reverend made, he affirmed his love and belief in the country while pointing out we still have a ways to go as far as race is concerned he to be held up to a higher standard than the other candidates.After 8 years of a President more concerned with enriching Haliburton cronies and protecting the complicity of Saudi prince's one of this country's worst days, i could vote for this man with a clear conscience(still undecided)


.....i tend to agree, i was just doing the contrast and compare that celticlord keeps refusing to do. Even if we concede that Obama could have done more, he still did more than McCain.

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 4:35:19 PM   
subtee


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quote:

Can't let it be ignored as much as many would like to.


~tries to take off her invisibility cloak~

Is it 'cause I'm a girl?


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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 4:36:29 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Just know that one is known by the company he keeps. I've yet to hear him address the preacher who refereed to his mother as "white trash". 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LA8z39Z8PJY&feature=related

(edited to correct the link)

Why should he respond to this racist preacher from New York? It has nothing to do with his church and is certainly not someone whose company he keeps.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 3/18/2008 4:37:16 PM >

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RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 4:46:17 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

...no i don't.


Thanks! A direct answer!

Now lets look at the rest.

Obviously Senator McCain didn't think it necessary, or didn't want to distance himself form Hagee. Exactly what he has said "We've had a dignified campaign, and I repudiate any comments that are made, including Pastor Hagee's, if they are anti-Catholic or offensive to Catholics." Let that be a campaign issue.

Obviously Senator Obama was embarrassed and saw his continuing affiliation with Reverend Wright as detrimental to his campaign so he is doing his best to distance himself. As much as you say Senator McCain needs the "religious right", Senator Obama needs to be careful in distancing himself. Wouldn't you agree that he needs the Trinity congregation, and those of similar opinion? Let that be a campaign issue.

Looking at the score-book:

Obama - Farrakhan, Wright
McCain - Hagee, Falwell(?)

Let it be a campaign issue.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 4:53:02 PM   
subtee


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Joined: 7/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Obama - Farrakhan, Wright
McCain - Hagee, Falwell(?)

Let it be a campaign issue.

quote:

"I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan," Obama said in the statement. "I assume that Trumpet Magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decision with which I agree."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/15/obama_decries_farrakhan_statem_1.html






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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 5:01:25 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Looking at the score-book:

Obama - Farrakhan, Wright
McCain - Hagee, Falwell(?)

Let it be a campaign issue.

McCain - add Rod Parsley, Pat Robertson (he sought both endorsements and appeared on stage with both)
Obama - remove Farrakhan (Obama never sought the endorsement and never has appeared in public with Farrakhan during his campaign)

So that is 1 to 3 or 4. I'll side with Obama especially with those three men's track records.

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 5:06:19 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Obama - Farrakhan, Wright
McCain - Hagee, Falwell(?)

Let it be a campaign issue.

quote:

"I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan," Obama said in the statement. "I assume that Trumpet Magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decision with which I agree."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/15/obama_decries_farrakhan_statem_1.html


Agreed subtee, the 'card' was a tally of endorsements from "bigots". Note there is also a quote from McCain concerning Hagee.

Maybe its better to post the endorsements and distancing replies from the candidates closer together in the future.

ummmm, wondering who's Senator Clinton's pastor?

PS - Since the Iraq war is apparently over and the troops are on their way home; has any candidate now speaking about the economy? I can't wait for the debate concerning how all the entitlement programs will be financed. McCain's Industry or Obama's wealth redistribution; either way - I hope they hand out some more of that government butter - we taxpayers will need it for lube.

(subtee, that 'PS' was a general random thought, not directed to anything you said.)

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 5:07:10 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Just know that one is known by the company he keeps. I've yet to hear him address the preacher who refereed to his mother as "white trash". 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LA8z39Z8PJY&feature=related

(edited to correct the link)

Why should he respond to this racist preacher from New York? It has nothing to do with his church and is certainly not someone whose company he keeps.


Obama shouldn't, except to demand an apology. 


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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 7:01:35 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Just know that one is known by the company he keeps. I've yet to hear him address the preacher who refereed to his mother as "white trash". 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LA8z39Z8PJY&feature=related

(edited to correct the link)

Why should he respond to this racist preacher from New York? It has nothing to do with his church and is certainly not someone whose company he keeps.


He insulted his MOTHER.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 7:09:23 PM   
MontrealPhoenix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

all i hear is a bunch of wall street babble talk. 

hint- when i get to a cashier- ill tell him that "we" have a liquidity problem. and that an injection of funds is needed. that todays investment waters are uncertain. 

i then  will gather my purchases and leave the store.

*giggles* let me know how that works out. If you don't get arrested i may try that myself.
 
Phoenix

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RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 7:29:10 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

He insulted his MOTHER.


Yes, he did.  And Obama would be well within his rights to pound that pusillanimous preacher into a grease spot on the ground.

But that jackass is not Obama's pastor, and isn't even affiliated with Obama's campaign.  He does not speak for or to Obama, nor has Obama received even the tiniest of teachings from him.  He's just another moron waving a bible in front of a TV camera and calling it religion.

Wright's an issue because he was Obama's pastor up until his celebrated retirement, and for no other reason. 


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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 7:56:35 PM   
Griswold


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Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Ok, I heard the voice of a man today. Not the voice of a politician, the voice of a man that does not view friends as political assets or libilities. A man that just might believe we are all part of the equation that adds up to America. He has done what I believe shows the world one of America's greatest assets; taking a castatrophy and building something greater. They said he wrote this speech himself, I hope so, I sincerely hope so.

I've waited a long time for a man that is about more than politics. Is that man you Senator Obama? Do you and I share a Home Stone?

Ok Senator, now you have my attention, now I'm listening......

But remember, those claiming a higher standard are held to it. I'm watching you. We all are.

Another man,

Bull


("Home Stone"?)

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: A man's voice should be his own. - 3/18/2008 7:59:11 PM   
SinergyNstrumpet


Posts: 305
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Ok, I heard the voice of a man today. Not the voice of a politician, the voice of a man that does not view friends as political assets or libilities. A man that just might believe we are all part of the equation that adds up to America. He has done what I believe shows the world one of America's greatest assets; taking a castatrophy and building something greater. They said he wrote this speech himself, I hope so, I sincerely hope so.

I've waited a long time for a man that is about more than politics. Is that man you Senator Obama? Do you and I share a Home Stone?

Ok Senator, now you have my attention, now I'm listening......

But remember, those claiming a higher standard are held to it. I'm watching you. We all are.

Another man,

Bull


He won my mom's vote through this, and she was pointing toward Nader


julia

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Profile   Post #: 120
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