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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 8:58:57 AM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

The original old guard was exclusively gay. 


Will people ever get this?  Will they ever take it upon themselves to be educated about what they proclaim to be before proclaiming it?  Please don't say you are an Old Guard Master if you are in the 40's and hetero.  As I said before, anyone with any knowledge will just laugh at you.

btw, nice to see John Warren back here posting.


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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 10:03:51 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		As long as the real history is unknown by the majority of the people doing this, there will be msytery and with mystery comes power to decieve and control.
So likely as not there will continue to be people who can use the false lable and get what they want. A way to bolster their image. This will continue unless and until a much larger part of the people know the history. Unfortunately there are far too many web based false histories compared to true histories. And far too many people who believe once they hear that it is a history of Gay Leathermen, figure they don't need or want to know it, and obviously it can't have any bearing on them.

To the second question by the OP.
Are there people who live by the Old Guard rules?
Well that causes a real problem, there was not a single set of rules. There were several local sets of rules usually set by the club itself and then set further by the individual masters. So there is no way you can live by "The Old Guard Rules" because they don't exist as a single set. What can be done is research of some of the most common rules that crossed regional lines. The things is even the most tradition based oldest gay leathermen have often told me that there were many of the rules that they worked under that today they see as just having been abussive and serving no purpose.

Much of the mystery and myth that we get of the "Old Guard" is based on the dream of what they wanted rather than the reality of what was created. (Not so different than what we have ourselves today.)

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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 10:20:29 AM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

As I said before, anyone with any knowledge will just laugh at you.




well laughing at people knowing not everything is as weird as the one saying weird things. I think we do that all once in a while.
We can't know everything.


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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 10:39:49 AM   
happypervert


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From: Scranton, PA
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quote:

Please don't say you are an Old Guard Master if you are in the 40's and hetero.

Yes, instead take a lesson from MissSix and claim you are Old Style; that implies you are somehow associated with a mysterious group of traditionalists (ooh, maybe one of them European Houses!) without actually making the gaffe to paint yourself as a fool. Of course, Old Style is still bs, but at least it is savvy bs.


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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 11:02:13 AM   
lauren0221


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

As I said before, anyone with any knowledge will just laugh at you.




well laughing at people knowing not everything is as weird as the one saying weird things. I think we do that all once in a while.
We can't know everything.



Yes, but if say you ARE something, and have no clue what it is - that's not lack of knowledge. That's trying to pretend be something you are not, and doing it badly. That goes deeper than lack of knowledge. It's more like the South Park episode where Cartman told everyone he was a lesbian:)

eta - Cartman had an excuse he's a cartoon character in 3rd grade.

< Message edited by lauren0221 -- 4/5/2008 11:04:45 AM >

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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 12:11:45 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		it is unfair to name Cartman, he can't defend himself
we lesbians defend eachother

and besides that there is no one telling exactly what the old guards are now (although I saw some at the bank) or what they exactly stand for right now.  The past seems more clear then the present.


< Message edited by Justme696 -- 4/5/2008 12:13:55 PM >

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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 3:09:47 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

I definitely disagree in reference to a dying-breed. Many adaptations have taken place over the past 25 or so years, but root and core families cast a veryt long shadow even today.


AS11,

Ahmen!

CP

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 3:16:18 PM   
KatyLied


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Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:



well laughing at people knowing not everything is as weird as the one saying weird things.


Well regardless of how you feel about how weird it is, if someone proclaims to be something they are not and they didn't even bother to do the minimum research into what they proclaim to be (such as a hetero male in his 40's proclaiming to be a gay man in his 80's), I see no problem sending a laugh or two their way.  Perhaps next time they'll pick up a book or visit a museum.




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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 4:05:12 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		don't think the old guard were 80 in the war..but also around 40 perhaps

but hé I don't know... I am lesbian..like Cartman

http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/dictionary/Old_Guard_leather/
could have saved us the discussion...well partly

and some more
http://domsubfriends.com/cgi-local/wwwdir/db.cgi?db=res&uid=default&category=OLD+GUARD&view_records=View+Records
(soem essays on the subject)

this one is funny and makes good points
http://www.leatherviews.com/kinkyinfo/9930.htm

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 4/5/2008 4:14:03 PM >

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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 4:22:37 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		They were not in their 80's when they served (I'm not sure where you got that impression), they are in that age group now or they have died.

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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 4:40:36 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Katy failed to do your math for you JustMe, that's all.

End of war begining of Old Guard 1945 or so age of the men comming home 18 to get the youngest of them.
2008 minus 1945 = 63 years + 18 years= 81

So the point being made is that unless you are about 80 the idea that you could have been Old Guard fails to add up.

Now I will disagree with the idea slightly, because the entire period of Old Guard lasted into the 50's at least.
One or two of the oldest LLC/MC in the nation are holding 50 year anniversaries.
The Larry Townsend citation certainly seems to say that the term was utilized to seperate the outlooks on Leather in about 1970.
(This squares with  my understanding of the history, although it' would be tough for it not to since Larry Townsend is one of the better sources available.)

If we assume that the change had started before it was recorded by Townsend in The Leatherman's Handbook then we could make the educated guess that the date of demarkation would be sometime about 1965.  So with this reasoning the age of the youngest possible member of the "Old Guard" assuming they found Leather at 18 would be about 60 years old, rather than 80. But the point remains claims that ignore the facts of Math and History that are documented tend to show the level of mind someone is working with.





< Message edited by Archer -- 4/5/2008 4:41:54 PM >

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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/5/2008 5:19:12 PM   
JohnWarren


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Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

btw, nice to see John Warren back here posting.



Thank you.  I've had some serious health issues, but things have changed enough to I can get online a bit more now than I have been.

Oh, FYI, the THIRD edition of The Loving Dominant just came out



< Message edited by JohnWarren -- 4/5/2008 5:43:24 PM >

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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/7/2008 9:10:38 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		I started becoming sexually active at 15 (I'd had some adolescent stuff prior; I remember my first orgasm was in a neighbor kid's mouth at 13), 1969. Next year, I got picked up by this older queen when I was hitching through Ohio. He and his "housemate" were kinda "Leather". Through the 70s I played around with all sorts of stuff, and got into the bathhouse thing around, oh, 76. (the bathhouse scene, well, that's a whole other story)They were fairly underground then, and lots of the guys also went to a leather bar on Ponce de Leon called "Marys", close to where the Eagle is now.  Some heavy shit went on in the back rooms there. I never heard the phrase "Old Guard" until waaaaay later, around the mid 90s. Seems it became some kind of fixation for some people, making up all this "protocol" shit. I don't remember any of that.

That's just what I remember about my time and place, though.

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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/7/2008 9:28:24 PM   
domahpet


Posts: 1505
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Santa Rosa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChemistryMaster1
Now I have another question, Are the people who live by the rules of Old Guard all gays? I like the Rules  in the Old Gaurd lifestyle but I am NOT gay!!


when i was a kid everybody rode, i never knew who was doing what to whom till i was muchhhhh older.
some were gay and some were DL and some werent.
all i know for sure was that my dad and all my uncles (6) were ex military. and that the women and kids
got to fly colors when we were with them ;)
Honor and Respect and Trust is what us kids were taught, to ourselves and others.
from my perspective, being gay didnt have much to do with it. they took care of each other with the highest honor and
trust. this is the way i treat my closest too.
i had a couple of uncles that had boyfriends, and a whole lot of aunties. no big whoop.

but i could be totaly wrong, after all, i was looking at my family thru a childs eyes.

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RE: Old Guard Lifestyle. - 4/7/2008 9:33:17 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		Old Style , Old School .. both just say to me that like myself the people like things a bit more formally done than some ....Both of these are probably bases on Old Guard protocol but who knows .. for me it is based on what I was taught when I entered the lifestyle ..... long before I found it online .... it works for me .. no matter what anyone calls it

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