French Muslim war graves defaced. (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 1:32:53 PM)

 
 
Sunday, 6 April 2008 14:38 UK
 
Vandals have desecrated 148 Muslim graves in France's biggest WWI cemetery, officials have said.

A pig's head was hung from one headstone and slogans insulting Islam and France's Muslim justice minister were daubed on other graves.

President Nicolas Sarkozy condemned the attack as a "hateful act" and the "most inadmissible kind of racism".

BBC News Europe



Politesub53 -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 1:39:15 PM)

People who damage graves, be they war graves, Jewish graves, Muslim graves or Christian graves, are just scum.



Level -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 1:39:29 PM)

Now, if these were famous people, it would have been okay to mock them......[:D] Oh, just being contrary here.
 
I'm glad that right-wing nut Sarkozy stood up against this. Honestly, it's sad that some jackasses would do this sort of thing.



NorthernGent -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 1:41:01 PM)

Haven't the French got form for this sort of carry on? Wasn't there a problem with Jewish graves not so long back?



kittinSol -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 1:42:43 PM)

I agree with you. France is quite special in that it has a long history of intolerance, racism, and antisemitism - the National Front's thugs and other bastards used to dig out Jewish corpses and deface Jewish graves. In the current climate of anti-Muslim sentiment (which is spreading fast throughout the Western world, incidentally), Muslims are just the latest in a list of people to act as scapegoats and recipients of public hatred and violence.



kittinSol -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 1:44:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Now, if these were famous people, it would have been okay to mock them......[:D] Oh, just being contrary here.
 


Completely disagreeing with you here: to make a few jokes about a famous dead actor is quite different from spraying Swastikas on dead soldiers' graves. Perhaps moral values can't be argued over.



Level -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 1:46:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Now, if these were famous people, it would have been okay to mock them......[:D] Oh, just being contrary here.
 


Completely disagreeing with you here: to make a few jokes about a famous dead actor is quite different from spraying Swastikas on dead soldiers' graves. Perhaps moral values can't be argued over.


Except to the deceased's family, perhaps.
 
Having said that, I generally agree with you, kittin.



kittinSol -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 1:51:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Except to the deceased's family, perhaps.
 
Having said that, I generally agree with you, kittin.



Do you agree that famous people and their families have to accept and expect that they will be the subjects of a certain amount of public scrutiny and, sometimes, mockery? I can't quite see how satire about a fortunate few equals rabid and violent hatred of the many. Dead, or alive, incidentally.

Hijacking my own thread here, so... hijack over.



Level -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:00:26 PM)

I'm saying that to the family of the dead person, there is no consensus of "oh, he/she was famous, so the mocking and ridicule is okay". Family is family, and pain is pain. Fame and money don't make those things go away.
 
Cracking a joke about a dead actor may not be the same as defacing the grave of a soldier, except to their family. One may be worse than the other, but neither is truly okay.
 
And yes, I've joked about the dead, too. I'm not being holier than thou.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:05:23 PM)

I've given up joking all together it's just not healthy at all. In the time I've been here I think I've upset more people with jokes than made laugh.

I'm going to talk about the weather instead now: sooo snow in London in spring, Global warming I tells ya.[8|]



Level -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:08:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

I've given up joking all together it's just not healthy at all. In the time I've been here I think I've upset more people with jokes than made laugh.

I'm going to talk about the weather instead now: sooo snow in London in spring, Global warming I tells ya.[8|]



Weather offends me.
 
A corpse, a Muslim, and a weatherman walk in to a bar.....



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:10:44 PM)

Why would a Muslim walk into a bar? He should look where he is going perhaps.[8|]



Level -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:11:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I agree with you. France is quite special in that it has a long history of intolerance, racism, and antisemitism - the National Front's thugs and other bastards used to dig out Jewish corpses and deface Jewish graves. In the current climate of anti-Muslim sentiment (which is spreading fast throughout the Western world, incidentally), Muslims are just the latest in a list of people to act as scapegoats and recipients of public hatred and violence.


*emphasis added*

In an effort to unhijack:
 
Saw a mention of this on C-Span a moment ago, so I Googled it up:

quote:

Americans' personal discomfort with Muslims is reflected in survey questions dealing with their reaction to being near Muslims in different situations. Nearly one quarter of Americans, 22%, say they would not like to have a Muslim as a neighbor. Slightly fewer, 18%, say they would feel nervous if they noticed a Muslim woman flying on the same airplane as themselves, while significantly more -- 31% -- say they would feel nervous if they noticed a Muslim man on their flight.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/24073/AntiMuslim-Sentiments-Fairly-Commonplace.aspx

This corresponds a fair bit with the highlighted part of your post, kittin. It's from 2006, but still pertinent, I'd think.



kittinSol -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:13:48 PM)

France's National Front established itself as the third largest party at the last presidential election, but it's been gathering momentum for decades.

Yesterday somebody on the boards said that the general political climate was slowly tilting towards the centre. I believe it's turning dangerously towards the right, and not just in France. These kinds of incidents are telling.

Freedom and liberty are great pretexes for hate crimes.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:14:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Sunday, 6 April 2008 14:38 UK
 Vandals have desecrated 148 Muslim graves in France's biggest WWI cemetery, officials have said.
A pig's head was hung from one headstone and slogans insulting Islam and France's Muslim justice minister were daubed on other graves.
President Nicolas Sarkozy condemned the attack as a "hateful act" and the "most inadmissible kind of racism".
BBC News Europe

Going back to topic, it is terrible and ironic the ignorant fools that did this can’t recognise the role Muslims played in their current liberty.



JohnWarren -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:14:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

President Nicolas Sarkozy condemned the attack as a "hateful act" and the "most inadmissible kind of racism".


What does he see as an admissible kind?



kittinSol -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:15:52 PM)

Do you think government and news media propaganda could have anything to do with the public's paranoia about Islam in the USA?



kittinSol -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:17:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

President Nicolas Sarkozy condemned the attack as a "hateful act" and the "most inadmissible kind of racism".


What does he see as an admissible kind?


I'm glad you picked this up. It's a BBC article, so something could have been lost in translation. I'll investigate what he said exactly, and will report back.



Level -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:19:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

France's National Front established itself as the third largest party at the last presidential election, but it's been gathering momentum for decades.

Yesterday somebody on the boards said that the general political climate was slowly tilting towards the centre. I believe it's turning dangerously towards the right, and not just in France. These kinds of incidents are telling.

Freedom and liberty are great pretexes for hate crimes.


I'm not educated enough to know if these sort of acts are increasing; of course, we've had hate and hateful acts since the dawn of time.
 
If pressed, I would tend to think that even though the far right is gaining steam, the center is gaining faster.



Level -> RE: French Muslim war graves defaced. (4/6/2008 2:23:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

President Nicolas Sarkozy condemned the attack as a "hateful act" and the "most inadmissible kind of racism".


What does he see as an admissible kind?


I'm glad you picked this up. It's a BBC article, so something could have been lost in translation. I'll investigate what he said exactly, and will report back.


I think he lists it right above that whole "freedom fries" thing from a few years back.



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