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RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 11:52:53 AM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelesslyInvo

for me it is simple, in submission i hold someone else in higher esteem and devote myself to them. i don't have to degrade myself to celebrate someone else.

i do not have to lower myself, i can raise them on my shoulders, but i am comfortable in kneeling.

Gems are so rare and that makes them so very precious.

Celeste

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Post #: 41

RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 12:08:32 PM

MasterDoc1

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Thank you domah..I was beginning to feel awfully lonely. THe point is NOT that the sub should feel the need to lower herself or that the act of submission makes her lesser. However why in the world would she want a dom that she couldn't "look up to"? (Please ignore gender specific pronouns; the same appies to dommes too of course). To me a submissive MUST truly BELIEVE that the dom is smarter, more experienced, more stable, more decisive, more SOMETHING (that she views as important) than she is or why in the world would she be serving him? Otherwise, it seems to me, it's all role-playing rather than reality. Now role-playing can be hot but is that really all there is?

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Post #: 42

RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 12:14:36 PM

colouredin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1
However why in the world would she want a dom that she couldn't "look up to"?

Is that the same as respect? I like to be in awe of the person that I am submissive to to an extent. I rarely see them as 'more' in the way that you have expressed just that they have differant strengths than mine and they compliment each other.

< Message edited by colouredin -- 4/9/2008 12:15:16 PM >

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Post #: 43

RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 12:25:51 PM

CenosSlave

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hmmm ive never understood why i get off on being a submissive before. i dont see myself as lesser or anything-in fact i find it incredibly difficult to submit to others who arent my Master, i just get off on the fact that ive given myself over to him. i supose for me it's about feeling secure on some subconcious level, though i hate to admit it lol...im not a very stable person in general and i have like, zero self control most times...so i feel most secure and grounded when im submitting to Ceno, and i guess this gets me off...also i see submission as a challenge, like, the dom will give me an order and it's kinda my own challenge to follow that and see it through...thus proving im not weak...i know this is only the case for me though, and how i choose to percieve it.

i think submission in general is down to how you percieve it, as to what gets you off. if pretending she is lesser gets her off then hey each to their own.

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Post #: 44

RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 12:44:50 PM

metalmiss

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To my mind, feminism & submission are completely seperate topics entirely.. Never the twain shall meet for me.
Nor do i consider my submission to be about "pretending to be lesser".. i have given over my choices and decisions to my Master, i get my pleasure from having relinquished my control entirely.. But in my opinion that does not make me any less of a person, even in His eyes. And there is certainly no "pretending" involved thats for sure.

With all this in mind it seems appropriate to point out that i do not so much consider Him to be "more" than me so much as "above" me. Perhaps its just semantics.

< Message edited by metalmiss -- 4/9/2008 12:48:32 PM >

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Post #: 45

RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 12:48:41 PM

colouredin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: metalmiss

To my mind, feminism & submission are completely seperate topics entirely.. Never the twain shall meet for me.
Nor do i consider my submission to be about "pretending to be lesser".. i have given over my choices and decisions to my Master, i get my pleasure from having relinquished my control entirely.. But in my opinion that does not make me any less of a person, even in His eyes. And there is certainly no "pretending" involved thats for sure.

Well said, I think the two are seperate, being submissive isnt about female equality, in a power exchange its CHOICE not enforced due to the fact you are lacking dangly bits. To be submissive is a personal individual thing, its not a loss of power. Also as I have said before, im special :P. For people who identify as submissive it takes a lot of personal strength to do so I think (I know that even I had issues with the feminism thing, now I see them seperate) I dont think its about a specific relationship, the fact that I feel as though for me being submissive works best doesnt devalue me as a human being.

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Post #: 46

RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 12:53:31 PM

metalmiss

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i never understood feminists anyway.. sure.. they all did so much once upon a time for my right as a female to choose.. in making my lifestyle choice i exercised that right.. whats their problem? lol

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Post #: 47

RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 12:56:33 PM

colouredin

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I agree, im not a radical feminist some issues I agree with others i think yeah you just want to have your cake and eat it to. As you say its a choice and isnt that the whole point? freedom to be what we want? When for example people point at housewives and say ah ah see still unequal, what if that person WANTS to be a housewife?

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Post #: 48

RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 1:00:20 PM

Lordandmaster

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I think if you're PRETENDING to be lesser, there's something weird going on, and I'd have to suspect that you have unresolved internal conflicts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

Being a submissive doesn't mean I'm a lesser human being. It just means I get wet pretending I'm lesser and giving over control to another person. Getting horny from being submissive doesn't mean I can't be a feminist.

I have a comment of my own but first...what do YOU think?

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Post #: 49

RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 1:17:12 PM

mzbehavin

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MasterDoc~
For me personally its a true desire to serve, not a pretension. I'd not judge someone else's self expression of D/s though. If someone else gets off on pretending *shrugs* it is what it is.
As long as it works for all parties involved...

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RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 1:29:20 PM

slavejale

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Greetings to All and all
First i would like to say that i did not read the whole thread, just the first page. the reason i did not finish reading the thread is because i kind of got a nerved picked with the "pretending" and submissive" or the "pretending to be submissive". Maybe she should have written roleplaying.

okay im going to finish the thread now *chuckles*

well wishes All and all

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RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 1:34:17 PM

mzbehavin

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It appears i missed part of the question, my apologies. What you say about better, for me is not viewed quite through that lens.
For me, its Inspiration~
And yes of course, as a submissive i love to be inspired by my Dominant. When He is successful at things its exciting for us both and inspires me to do better etc. The whole dynamic becomes more positively charged.
Yet there is the dichotomy... i don't want someone "better" than me it would give me a complex. I want someone who can complement me, as i would hope to inspire them as well.

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RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 1:38:29 PM

MladyHathor

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I'm wondering why we are debating something publically that someone wrote in private? Seems a breach to Me...

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Post #: 53

RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 1:40:45 PM

colouredin

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I just took it to mean like live journal, thats not private, i have a blog in a public domain therefore its open for discussion

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RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 1:48:19 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

I agree, im not a radical feminist some issues I agree with others i think yeah you just want to have your cake and eat it to. As you say its a choice and isnt that the whole point? freedom to be what we want? When for example people point at housewives and say ah ah see still unequal, what if that person WANTS to be a housewife?

Amen to that. I find that most radical/fundemental feminists are fighting against my choices and decisions, and that sucks. I personally am a humanist. Feminism is just another degree of seperation IMO.

Brit gals rock!.ohyes.

the.dark.

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RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 1:54:18 PM

Poetryinpain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

I'm wondering why we are debating something publically that someone wrote in private? Seems a breach to Me...

It appears to me that we are not debating the original quote anymore - the context has changed.

I don't want a Dom who is 'better' than I - there is no one better than I. If I feel 'lesser' than someone, I know I need to check my self-perception.

I will submit to someone who grabs my heart, whose power dynamic complements mine. I exercise power in that dynamic - the power to submit. To submit, I cede power. I only cede power to someone I trust to use that power for my good. That doesn't make the person 'better' - it just makes him trustworthy.

pip - I was just gonna sit back and watch

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Post #: 56

RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 2:18:16 PM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

Being a submissive doesn't mean I'm a lesser human being. It just means I get wet pretending I'm lesser and giving over control to another person. Getting horny from being submissive doesn't mean I can't be a feminist.

I can relate to this actually, as I too like to feel inferior to the man I'm in submission to. I don't really believe that I am a lesser human being, I just like to find at least one aspect where he is superior to me; it could be that he's smarter, more powerful, more confident, more educated, more experienced at something etc. It doesn't much matter what it is, I can tap into it and get myself into a very humiliating and submissive mindset that can, at times, be quite a turn on. I'm not sure I would call this pretending, but if that's her take on it and that's what she does, I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as she clearly recognizes what she is doing and why she is doing it. It may be relevant to note how many people in this "lifestyle" enjoy role play or "pretending" to be a pony, or a barking puppy, or a naughty girl/boy, a sissymaid or whathaveyou.

She sounds like she has her shit together and chooses to separate her fantasy from her reality; her 'submission' from her 'feminism'. Whatever it is, it's hers.

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RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 3:05:18 PM

sblady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

THe point is NOT that the sub should feel the need to lower herself or that the act of submission makes her lesser. However why in the world would she want a dom that she couldn't "look up to"? (Please ignore gender specific pronouns; the same appies to dommes too of course). To me a submissive MUST truly BELIEVE that the dom is smarter, more experienced, more stable, more decisive, more SOMETHING (that she views as important) than she is or why in the world would she be serving him? Otherwise, it seems to me, it's all role-playing rather than reality. Now role-playing can be hot but is that really all there is?

MD1, I understand what you mean and my Dom is exactly as you describe; more experienced, stable, decisive, smarter in his line of work and I definitely look up to Him. I don't feel "lesser" but chose to be submissive to Him because He is all of the above, plus. But, here's the rub: What happens if something changed overnight? I don't mean to be the voice of doom, but for instance, what if said Dom/me went through a personal crisis where all the reasons I chose Him disappear? The TPE would definitely be a bit skewed. Would I, as a submissive toss Him to the side because He can no longer function and I can no longer look up to Him? I'm just trying to gain a better understanding of your post and I sincerely apologize if I've asked questions that are not relative to the original post. But there are always what ifs.

< Message edited by sblady -- 4/9/2008 3:07:53 PM >

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RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 3:15:16 PM

Lashra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: metalmiss

i never understood feminists anyway.. sure.. they all did so much once upon a time for my right as a female to choose.. in making my lifestyle choice i exercised that right.. whats their problem? lol

I'm a feminist and I'm glad we all have our rights to choose, women had to fight long and hard for that right. I don't know many of us who have a "problem" except the militant ones which are a rarity, but then again you have some "militants" in other groups who want to take right of choice away from ALL women even in this day and age. To me they have the problem

~Lashra

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RE: "Pretending I'm lesser" - 4/9/2008 3:20:51 PM

sublibrarian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I can relate to this actually, as I too like to feel inferior to the man I'm in submission to. I don't really believe that I am a lesser human being, I just like to find at least one aspect where he is superior to me; it could be that he's smarter, more powerful, more confident, more educated, more experienced at something etc. It doesn't much matter what it is, I can tap into it and get myself into a very humiliating and submissive mindset that can, at times, be quite a turn on. I'm not sure I would call this pretending, but if that's her take on it and that's what she does, I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as she clearly recognizes what she is doing and why she is doing it. It may be relevant to note how many people in this "lifestyle" enjoy role play or "pretending" to be a pony, or a barking puppy, or a naughty girl/boy, a sissymaid or whathaveyou.

She sounds like she has her shit together and chooses to separate her fantasy from her reality; her 'submission' from her 'feminism'. Whatever it is, it's hers.

Thanks Marie.

I've really enjoyed reading the posts here as I'm the sub in question who blogged the original line.

As it was a blog, which is publicly on the internet, I don't feel like there was any breach of personal privacy.... and I could have chosen to remain anonymous here if I wanted. (As I did when another blog post of mine was used to stir up discussion. *grin* I only wish that one hadn't been taken out of context.)

Had this discussion gone on before I posted, I probably would have chosen different words to say what I was trying to say. That's the down side to a blog - not having an editor to suggest changes or ask questions. Do I consider myself a lesser human being than anyone (MasterDoc included)? No. I have value and skills and am a bascially good, worthwhile person. Shouldn't a submissive be worth the Dominant's time by being worthwhile themselves?

Do I look up to MasterDoc and respect him a great deal? Yes. I really appreciate having his guidance and I wouldn't take it so much to heart if I didn't respect his level of intelligence and life experience. I wouldn't want to submit to someone I didn't hold in high esteem.

As for my use of the word pretending... mmm that maybe wasn't the best word choice to convey my meaning. I don't ever pretend to respect and defer to MasterDoc. I genuinely do. But if I'm ever feeling lesser or humiliated it's a temporary place I've put myself into because I get something out of the dynamic and perhaps it's a bit like pretending.

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