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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:28:50 AM   
MontrealPhoenix


Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline 		Nooooooooooooooooo!!!! I won't give up my true submissive card, i WON'T and you can't make me. I'm not giving back the secret decoder ring and you can't make me!

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"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267



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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:29:53 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Now this could be a fun question I need to think on in but see this removes the idea of right and wrong and asks What Drives a Submissive. This is a Question I like. Now you only have to deal with the people who will give you the Stock Answers of "Because I enjoy it" but we will see where it goes.

*I'll Return on this after I give it a good thought and talk to my girls about it.**

Steel

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:30:54 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Therein lays the flaw in your question.  All you will likely get from the majority here are personal perspectives, personal opinions, etc... subjective answers.  If you want to boil submission down to its objective realities, refer to a good text on behavioral psychology and work from there.  The answer you seek simply isn't to be found within the "BDSM community", which ironically enough probably does more to obsfucate definitions of dominance and submission than anyone else.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:34:08 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Padriag,

That was very well said and I agree whole heartedly.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:47:29 AM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Therein lays the flaw in your question.  All you will likely get from the majority here are personal perspectives, personal opinions, etc... subjective answers.  If you want to boil submission down to its objective realities, refer to a good text on behavioral psychology and work from there.  The answer you seek simply isn't to be found within the "BDSM community", which ironically enough probably does more to obsfucate definitions of dominance and submission than anyone else.


check out the sociological theories of deviance as well (and my normal disclaimer that deviance does not equal bad). there's some interesting work by a guy named weinberg (he teaches at buff state and one of teh girls in my cohort actually studied underneath him...i'm jealous).


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the first rule of fluff club is that you don't talk about fluff club!

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 10:49:01 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

My intention of the question was not to learn what an individual's own idea of what the true nature is, but what submission boils down to, what is the need someone feels that they would submit themself to another human being.

There are naturally leaders and naturally followers, that is humanity, by that I understand there are natural Dominants and natural submissives, but what defines a human's need to submit, is it the nature of them or is there another reason.



I believe you can not honestly boil it down into something so simple.  Because of the many reasons.  Combination of things;  Biological, Conditioning; Personal Belief systems; Social Conditioning; Personality; blah blah blah....

There are different motivations and driving forces behind submission.  There is no single answer, but multiple answers.  you can't boil it down to one truth.   Save the fact that they submit. 

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 10:59:01 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

A simple question;

What is the true nature of submission ?

What is a true submissive ?





If life is like a box of chocolates, then the true nature of submission is like a bowl of cherries - you never know how sweet one is, until you try it.

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 11:13:43 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

A simple question;

What is the true nature of submission ?

What is a true submissive ?


Someone that has an almost overwhelming desire to please me, and obey me. That, in my world, is "true".

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 12:01:48 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		I am a true submissive because I was trained in Europe .. in one of the Great Old Houses. Many years of intensive schooling , of mind body and soul went into my training as one of the few true submissives left on earth. My True Masters were themselves trained in the dark arts and had lived as slaves under previously trained Masters, this cycle running back generation upon generation to the foundation of the House under the Pagan Fathers. You may have heard of the Illuminati, they were a splinter group of our House cast out because of their forward thinking ways. Many famous Masters and slaves have passed through our Hallowed Halls, all trained in the True Arts. We walk the Earth looking for all the world like mortals, but really we have been blessed with the knowledge of Ages,

I am one of the last truly trained submissives and without me, true submission will die out. Thus I must be allowed to live the rest of my days in true submission, laying on a silk cushion, being fed chocolate and rubbed with jelly.


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proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 12:10:09 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

A simple question;

What is the true nature of submission ?

What is a true submissive ?




I don't think the first question can be answered. It's just way to subjective.

My answer to the second question:

A true ________ (fill in the blank with choice of orientation) is someone who figures out what being a ________  is to them and then makes their best effort to live as they have defined.

As time goes on and my definitions adjust, so does my behavior and the way I live.  


Celeste


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"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 12:12:53 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

I am a true submissive because I was trained in Europe .. in one of the Great Old Houses. Many years of intensive schooling , of mind body and soul went into my training as one of the few true submissives left on earth. My True Masters were themselves trained in the dark arts and had lived as slaves under previously trained Masters, this cycle running back generation upon generation to the foundation of the House under the Pagan Fathers. You may have heard of the Illuminati, they were a splinter group of our House cast out because of their forward thinking ways. Many famous Masters and slaves have passed through our Hallowed Halls, all trained in the True Arts. We walk the Earth looking for all the world like mortals, but really we have been blessed with the knowledge of Ages,

I am one of the last truly trained submissives and without me, true submission will die out. Thus I must be allowed to live the rest of my days in true submission, laying on a silk cushion, being fed chocolate and rubbed with jelly.



I think this post qualifies you as one of the "illumi-naughty".....

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 12:26:15 PM   
clevername2


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/8/2008
Status: offline 		In the spirit of looking at things from many perspectives, here is mine. The will of the dominant is like the rolling ocean wave, and submission is like riding the wave. The dominant provides the force that acts on the sbmissive; to which he submits. I look for domination to be something that happens to me and to which I respond. Within limits, the idea is for the dominant to do what they like. Just do it. Be your dominant self, make use of me knowing I want to be used. Do not think of what I want. It doesn't exist. There is only your desire. Use me according to your desire. That is the nature of submission. You use me for your purpose. I like being used, so it works out.

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 12:30:14 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: clevername2
Do not think of what I want. It doesn't exist. There is only your desire.


Well, that's certainly not in my true nature of submission.....

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to clevername2)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 1:03:15 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What is a true submissive ?



Easy enough to answer...

To understand what a true™ submissive is, you need only to look to the definition of "true":

true (trōō) adjective
  1. conforming to reality or fact; not false
  2. real; genuine; authentic
  3. sincere; not deceitful
  4. firm in allegiance; loyal; faithful; steadfast
  5. being or reflecting the essential or genuine character of something
  6. conforming to or consistent with a standard, pattern, or the like
  7. exact; precise; accurate; correct
  8. of the right kind; such as it should be; proper
  9. legitimate or rightful
  10. reliable, unfailing, or sure
  11. honest; honorable; upright
So... a  true™ submissive is one that...
  1. submits in a realistic way
  2. submits genuinely
  3. submits truthfully
  4. submits loyally
  5. submits naturally
  6. submits consistently
  7. submits accurately
  8. submits in the right way
  9. submits when appropriate
  10. submits reliably
  11. submits honestly
Now... if you have a submissive who conforms to one or more of the above in your opinion, you can be assured he or she is true™. 

Failing that, you can always look for the true™ symbol tattooed, stamped, or branded on the lower right buttock. 

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 5/17/2008 1:04:00 PM >

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 1:27:53 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

I believe you can not honestly boil it down into something so simple.  Because of the many reasons.  Combination of things;  Biological, Conditioning; Personal Belief systems; Social Conditioning; Personality; blah blah blah....

There are different motivations and driving forces behind submission.  There is no single answer, but multiple answers.  you can't boil it down to one truth.   Save the fact that they submit. 



Yet isn't it the effects of all these reasons which makes the nature of submission or domination a truth for the individual? Granted there is no one absolute answer, just an answer that each one of us unique humans accepts as being true for us individually. I mean, what I believe is the true nature of me being submissive is solely based upon the experiences I had throughout my life. Thus, what I learned from these experiences is true for me and me alone. In the same manner that how you were raised and all you experienced up to this moment determines what is true for you and you alone. What we define as true has no definitive right or wrong answer as there are too many variables involved.




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Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 2:40:24 PM   
Aiden


Posts: 39
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline 		A simple question;
What is the true nature of submission ?
What is a true submissive ?

Simple is it?  Simple as defining the true nature of god/s or daemons imho; that is to say subjective, manifesting in multiple layers of the mind and body, non-linear, sweet as sin nectar, bitter as tear wine....aery flights aside, I agree with the premiss submission can only be defined in personal terms and that those terms are subject to shifting with time and circumstance. 
I identify as submissive.  When and who invokes my submission is very selective but that doesn't mean the reaction is always voluntary on my part.  Most people who encounter me day to day would not think to associate me with submissiveness,  if anything, the opposite.  Likewise caricature dom/mes one encounters on the net or in 3space strike me mainly as being silly.  Yet I'm drawn.  Something in me seeks out  those individuals who have that voodoo,  a look, a gesture, a command and I'll  find myself on my knees.  Ready to give all.  Yearning to.  The next day I might get up and go take care of business taking for granted the submission of others to me in that venue.  The question if that make me less 'pure' a submissive in my opinion is un-resolvable since in the end it boils down to semantics.




(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 2:48:35 PM   
MontrealPhoenix


Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline 		Hey softness, i knew you looked familiar, i think we may have been roommates. You forgot to mention that we never get old as we have been taught to master the aging process...or did i just give away one of our secrets? If so, my bad.
 
phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267



(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 3:16:05 PM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah



Thank you  for another TRUE thread.

In the future save everyone from having to type the exact same CRAP and just use your search function and see all the CRAP people have ALREADY said on the topic. Cause so far in the 11 years I have been at this lifestyle I have yet to hear anything NEW on the subject.

Steel


Best post in the whole thread


_____________________________

HBIC



(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 3:18:02 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		a true sub is the sub serving you....else you picked the wrong one (if you are a Dom/Domme)

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 3:36:36 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

A simple question;
What is the true nature of submission ?
What is a true submissive ?

You call these "simple" questions? 
 
Well, here is my "simple" answer:  What is true for me today, will not be true for you or anyone else, ever.  My truth is based on my own unique experiences and perspective.
 
What is true?
 
true  (adjective)
from Old English treowe faithful; akin to Old High German gitriuwi faithful, Old Irish derb sure,
Date: before 12th century

1 a: steadfast, loyal
  b: honest, just
2 a (1): being in accordance with the actual state of affairs <true description>
  (2): conformable to an essential reality
  (3): fully realized or fulfilled <dreams come true>
b: ideal, essential
c: being that which is the case rather than what is manifest or assumed <the true dimension of the problem>
d: consistent <true to character>
3 a: properly so called <true love> <the true faith>
b (1): possessing the basic characters of and belonging to the same natural group as <a whale is a true but not a typical mammal>
(2): typical <the true cats>
4: legitimate, rightful <our true and lawful king>
5 a: that is fitted or formed or that functions accurately
b: conformable to a standard or pattern : accurate
6: determined with reference to the earth's axis rather than the magnetic poles <true north>
7: logically necessary
8: narrow, strict <in the truest sense>
9: corrected for error
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/true

joy
Owned servant of Master David

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 40
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