RE: Immigration law: something's got to give.

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RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 11:54:50 AM

CreativeDominant

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Free speech zones or no, you are still allowed to protest.

As for China, no one here...including me...has stated that they are not repressive. What was stated was that their communistic ideals of a society in which the poor were to be uplifted by the communal work of their fellow man has been set aside.

Corporate greed...a term often used to indict those who achieve wealth through capitalistic means, including their own hard work in the beginning. These same greedy people are the ones who create jobs enabling people to begin living off their own labor and not those of others. Do examples of wrongdoing exist on the corporate side? Of course...just as examples of the failures of socialism do.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 11:54:56 AM

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The man who made the subject of this thread is from the other side of the world - the ex USSR is hardly Mexico.

But as you seem to have a fixation on south of your border, here's my take on it. I would like to see people who take advantage of the illegal immigration situation dealt with appropriately by the authorities. It's a bit much that they get away with employing people without the right paperwork. Businesses and private employers who hire and pay illegal immigrants under the table, bypassing the IRS and creating an unfair wage competition for legitimate workers, are worse criminals than the people they employ.

Heavy fines and jail sentences spring to mine: if it's a shared crime, why is it only side that gets to pay?

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 6/4/2008 11:55:44 AM >

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RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 11:57:19 AM

MstrObjectmaker

Posts: 480
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First off all.......I know how racist France is as a country........The french in general hate foreigners........in fact they hate us brits probably more than most.......

Secondly......I may live here but I have no rights to vote as I am not a French citizen.......the only reason I don't need a visa is because the Uk and France are part of the EU.......

quote:

As far as you're concerned, anyone who has the guts to leave their country and move here should be allowed in?

Yes! America is a country of immigrants......your ancestors were immigrants.....

quote:

But then, you are not paying for the social programs that many who have done just that and have been allowed in or are here illegally enjoy, are you?

No....but then I am in France and in UK.....and believe it or not the US is not the only country that has an immigration problem...

quote:

As for them doing work that "Americans" won't do, that is their choice, is it not?

Probably not....if their illegals its probably the only work they can get.....

Would you be willing to work for $5 an hour if you had a choice?

quote:

If they do not wish to do it, then they can always stay where they are. And since you brought it up...why don't you come forth with referenced articles about real people who have been deported for attempting to better themselves through education?

Because I am answering the op's initial point.

And I do believe the op did provide a suitable example.

quote:

Or are you referring only to those who were here illegally to begin with and their application for financial aid to attend an institution of higher learning alerted authorities to the fact that they were dealing with an ILLEGAL immigrant...not "undocumented" alien...who wanted American taxpayers to foot his bill?

No!

One of the ways to allow people from other countries to improve their own countries prosperity is through education.......if you spent a little less tax payers money on things like weapons and wars.....you might be able to help those less fortunate than yourselves.....

< Message edited by MstrObjectmaker -- 6/4/2008 12:02:57 PM >

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 11:58:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrObjectmaker

First off all.......I know how racist France is as a country........The french in general hate foreigners........in fact they hate us brits probably more than most.......

The British dislike the French far more. The French find the British charming and exotic.

~ mixedmutt

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RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:04:19 PM

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argh

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 6/4/2008 12:09:16 PM >

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RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:04:36 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

Article in NY Times RE this topic. Well done, imo

The Great Immigration Panic:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/opinion/03tue1.html?em&ex=1212724800&en=7c6e9e46b8924b64&ei=5070

Great article, CJ, TY.

Rightwingers just luuuurve to be freaked out about shit, don't they? Commies, pot, illegals, women's reproductive rights, tewwowism, gay marriage, poor people, affirmative action, Cuba, Iran, Chavez, the UN, guns, yada yada.

And the Gomers get all wound up because they are told by Hannity, Rash, that scrawny mouthy bitch with the Adam's Apple, et cetera ad infinitum that somewhere, somehow, an undocumented worker might be getting a band-aid at an ER or a Negro (horror of horrors!) might be getting a scholarship, or two lezbeens want to have a certain document.

Glad I'm not rabidly insane.

And its funny how some left wingers can make excuses for everything under the sun. The proper term is "illegal immigrant", not undocumented worker. Undocumented worker implies that somehow, somewhere his paperwork was lost in the bureaucratic shuffle. B.S., he came here illegally.

And by the way, conservative does not mean right wing anymore than liberal means being a left wing radical interested only in welfare and taking this country down the road to socialism and confiscating private property and socializing the factories.
I don't believe in abortion on demand but I do believe in responsible reproductive rights for women. But then, I think the guys that produce those babies ought to be made to pay for them. I don't care what gender you want to have sex with...your choice. If John wants to fuck Joe, go for it. If Jane wants to be fisted by Sheila, go for it. I have cousins that are gay and lesbian and I can see the love they have for each other. But if you want the force of law behind you, then work the LEGISLATURE to do it for you, not some activist judge who thinks the Constitution is a document to interpret as HE sees fit. It is what it is...you want the law changed, go to the branch of the government that does so.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:06:12 PM

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~FR~

I just wish the Brit/EU immigration laws weren't such a bitch//// *sigh*

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(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:08:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I don't believe in abortion on demand but I do believe in responsible reproductive rights for women.

Sorry, but that one always makes me laugh. "Abortion on demand"... ridiculous.

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RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:17:45 PM

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Kittin, people like your boy from Armenia need to stop looking at it as "deportation" and start looking at it as a new "learning experience."
They'll be learning about a whole new culture and country and with their "American schooling" they'll go far in their home countries!

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RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:17:56 PM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrObjectmaker

One of the ways to allow people from other countries to improve their own countries prosperity is through education.......if you spent a little less tax payers money on things like weapons and wars.....you might be able to help those less fortunate than yourselves.....

Soooooooooooooo...instead of spending the part of the money that we pay on national defense...weapons of war and the soldiers that carry them, NOT going into the whole war thing...we should pay for all those less fortunate? Does that include those unwilling to work? Those who wish to scorn our country and its ways while still holding their hand out for economic development? Those who wish to tell us how bad and greedy Wal-Mart and IBM and Microsoft are while insisting that they pay even more than they do in taxes and be regulated even more strictly while those who live off the dole want minimal if any supervision of how they spend their taxpayer-provided check?

(in reply to MstrObjectmaker)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:19:03 PM

MstrObjectmaker

Posts: 480
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrObjectmaker

First off all.......I know how racist France is as a country........The french in general hate foreigners........in fact they hate us brits probably more than most.......

The British dislike the French far more. The French find the British charming and exotic.

~ mixedmutt

I don't think the French around where I live in France find the brits at all charming and exotic.......but then I live in a very rural area......which is far more concervative with a small c........they still haven't forgotten that we took Aquitaine as a part of marriage dowry, during the 100 years war.......nor have they forgotten about our sinking of the french naval fleet during the 2nd world war.......very long memories......

They hate the fact that so many brits have come here to live, bought old farms and converted them into gites........

The village that is about a 10 minuite walk from me is almost entirely populated by brits now.......

As a result house prices are going through the roof........so much so that the average young french man and woman has been priced out of the market.......

They fail to see that without the influx of well off brits the local economy would have stagnated.......

But then there are upsides and down sides here......

I am sure that in the larger much more cosmopolitan cities peoples view of the brits is much better, but down here not so much........

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:22:40 PM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I don't believe in abortion on demand but I do believe in responsible reproductive rights for women.

Sorry, but that one always makes me laugh. "Abortion on demand"... ridiculous.

Really? What would you call the ability of a single woman to go to an abortion clinic, after having had two or three or four abortions, and insisting that she receive the next one? And the clinic does so. And if they won't, some doctor that provides abortions will. At what point does someone say to her, "you know...it may be time for you to think about being just a bit more responsible".

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:27:36 PM

MstrObjectmaker

Posts: 480
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrObjectmaker

One of the ways to allow people from other countries to improve their own countries prosperity is through education.......if you spent a little less tax payers money on things like weapons and wars.....you might be able to help those less fortunate than yourselves.....

Soooooooooooooo...instead of spending the part of the money that we pay on national defense...weapons of war and the soldiers that carry them, NOT going into the whole war thing...we should pay for all those less fortunate? Does that include those unwilling to work? Those who wish to scorn our country and its ways while still holding their hand out for economic development? Those who wish to tell us how bad and greedy Wal-Mart and IBM and Microsoft are while insisting that they pay even more than they do in taxes and be regulated even more strictly while those who live off the dole want minimal if any supervision of how they spend their taxpayer-provided check?

I always find that concervatives in general insist on this "US" and "THEM" argument.

There is no "US" and "THEM", theres just people......

You seem to be intent on painting every immigrant with the same tar brush......

Sure there are bad un's and good un's.......thats true of everybody........

Who ever they are.....rich and poor.......immigrant or citizen.....

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:30:14 PM

MstrObjectmaker

Posts: 480
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I don't believe in abortion on demand but I do believe in responsible reproductive rights for women.

Sorry, but that one always makes me laugh. "Abortion on demand"... ridiculous.

Really? What would you call the ability of a single woman to go to an abortion clinic, after having had two or three or four abortions, and insisting that she receive the next one? And the clinic does so. And if they won't, some doctor that provides abortions will. At what point does someone say to her, "you know...it may be time for you to think about being just a bit more responsible".

Hey in my experience its the guys doing the impregnating that are the ones who lack responcibility......not every woman is able to use the pill......

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:32:21 PM

MstrObjectmaker

Posts: 480
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

~FR~

I just wish the Brit/EU immigration laws weren't such a bitch//// *sigh*

Andrea.....the same could be said about the US immigration.....and any other western none EU country for that matter......lol

(in reply to GreedyTop)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:33:19 PM

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quote:

Hey in my experience its the guys doing the impregnating that are the ones who lack responcibility......not every woman is able to use the pill......

Every woman can use the pill. If she holds it tightly between her knees, it's 100% effective.

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RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:36:27 PM

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Yeah, women really like having their uterus prodded and the pregnancy sucked out, they do it for fun, didn't you know? Okay, not wanting to hijack my own thread but seriously, it's unbearable to let that kind of unfortunate falsehood go unchecked. 'Single women' indeed

.

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RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 12:38:02 PM

MstrObjectmaker

Posts: 480
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrObjectmaker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrObjectmaker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

And this is why we should just invade Mexico.

According to the plot of "The Day after tomorrow" your gonna want to move there anyway when mother nature bites back........so you might as well get a head start.......

That way you would have a much smaller border to patrol.......

Excellent!!! Now just ask your government to look the other way.

I think you'll find that "my" government will always follow your lead where ever you wish to go........something about historical ties or some other BS......

MstrObject, so you guys have debris collectors there too?
Sorry, I meant "degree collectors."

Doesn't everybody???

Its become quite a status symbol don't you know.......lol

(in reply to popeye1250)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 2:28:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Free speech zones or no, you are still allowed to protest.

As for China, no one here...including me...has stated that they are not repressive. What was stated was that their communistic ideals of a society in which the poor were to be uplifted by the communal work of their fellow man has been set aside.

Corporate greed...a term often used to indict those who achieve wealth through capitalistic means, including their own hard work in the beginning. These same greedy people are the ones who create jobs enabling people to begin living off their own labor and not those of others. Do examples of wrongdoing exist on the corporate side? Of course...just as examples of the failures of socialism do.

I'm not advocating socialism or attacking capitalism. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of being told for years of the evils of communism and of sacrificing so many American lives to defend against that "evil". That is until someone figured out how much money can be made there and in Vietnam. Now we turn a blind eye to the human rights violations and abuses that go on in those countries. If that's not greed I don't know what is.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. - 6/4/2008 2:38:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

That's the way the cookie crumbles.

In '92 when his mother applied for assylum, the Soviet Union still existed. Now it doesn't - it has reverted to the various individual countries that started out as. She fled from something that - truthfully - no longer exists, and has not returned to find out whether she is still in some sort of political danger there. If he wants to go to college here in the US that badly, let him go back home with his mom - find out the truth for himself of what things are like there now instead of the bad memories of something from 16 years ago - and then apply for a student Visa to return. If he's as smart as the article indicates, then there will likely be colleges and universities falling all over themselves to offer him scholarships and such to pay for it - not to mention the fact that if he's that smart, he should already be thinking along those lines.

In 92 Soviet Union did not exist.

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)

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