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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/28/2005 12:45:29 PM

MsIce

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Hmm how do you show the quote as a quote???

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/28/2005 12:50:52 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIce

Hmm how do you show the quote as a quote???

You either click the "quote" button which is next to the "reply" button, or you place [*quote*] in front of the text and [/*quote*] after the text (without the *'s).

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/28/2005 2:27:46 PM

felineone

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I have a theory about the amount of people abused as children now in the lifestyle.
I think that submissive women/men are also submissive children.
Perhaps they are more vulnerable to abusers, and make easier prey.
The same qualities that make a good submissive also make one vulnerable.

jmo

~feline~

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/28/2005 5:03:55 PM

FTopinMichigan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: skittles47
I recently joined a local BDSM group and have been talking to friends. I have discoveded a fairly large number of submissives that suffer from depression, myself included. I wonder if this is just a coincident or a trend in the lifestyle. I also wanted to comment on the fact that most counselors consider the Lifestyle as being risk taking, destructive behavior. Many of them feel that our attraction to the Lifestyle is due to abuse as a child. I am interested in hearing what others think

I agree with the previous poster that offered that they feel that depression is just more prevalent overall. I think that people in the BDSM community just talk more about personal issues with one another, and are more open to divulge things about themselves to others.

While I'm a Top, I too have recently pulled out of a depression that I denied for a long time. A doctor diagnosed me years ago, and my response was only anger and never returning to his care. I took his diagnoses to be the standard answer to a middle aged woman. I didn't know how depressed I was until I emerged out of it.

I found the a correlation between tons of stressful situations (from death of a parent, to loss of a job, finishing a Masters Degree, turning 40 etc.), but more importantly noticed that it correlated to the time I entered into the BDSM community.

I found that I was internalizing the way I was being treated by men. Even though I'm quite dominate in personality, and strictly a Top, I was being used by men that were only seeking self fulfillment in their own fantasies.

Over time I enjoyed tons of casual play partners, and so many parties and clubs, that I can't count. The men I encountered were selfish with only concern for what I could do for them, and had little to no concern for me, as a person. I then found I developed the same feelings...toward myself. (Again, not realizing it until AFTER the fact though.)

Through years of just living, without a hint of happiness in my life (although smiling outwardly, so no one would notice), I finally came out it. I found my happiness, and myself again. And to be honest, I didn't find the "old" me...I found me, as I am today. I'm a noticeably different person, once I began to understand that I wouldn't allow others actions toward me, to dictate how I felt about myself.

I wonder if there aren't many women, whether Domme or sub that may be going through exactly what I did.

K

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/29/2005 2:46:18 PM

pinkpleasures

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Depresssion comes in two forms: regular and clinical. The regular kind makes you feel lonely on a Saturday night alone. The clinical kind can rob you of any pleasure and happiness and is a serious condition.

Whether through counseling, meds, or a combination of both, clinical depression can be treated successfully. The tragedy is so many people (including MD's) feel competent to treat this mood disorder when they are not. Even fewer are willing to suspend belief and listen before telling a client that their BDSM activities are destructive.

As i have said before there is federally funded mental health care in every county, charged on a sliding scale, and to find yours call your county commissioner's office and ask for the name & phone number.

Just because you are depressed, do not suspend your judgment to the point of accepting an unfit therapist or taking meds without fully understanding their desired -- side --adverse effects.

i found a site i think is good; www.depressionhurts.com. Although it is maintained by a pharmacutical company, i found the information and checklists very helpful.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/29/2005 3:12:08 PM >

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/29/2005 2:54:41 PM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures

Depresssion comes in two forms: regular and clinical. The regular kind makes you feel lonely on a Saturday night alone. The clinical kind can rob you of any pleasure and happiness and is a serious condition.

Whether through counseling, meds, or a combination of both, clinical depression can be treated successfully. The tragedy is so many people (including MD's) feel competent to treat this mood disorder when they are not. Even fewer are willing to suspend belief and listen before telling a client that their BDSM activities are destructive.

As i have said before there is federally funded mental health care in every county, charged on a sliding scale, and to find yours call your county commissioner's office and ask for the name & phone number.

Just because you are depressed, do not suspend your judgment to the point of accepting an unfit therapist or taking meds without fully understanding their desired -- side --adverse effects.

pinkpleasures

quote:

The law, in all its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor......

Those of you who are aware of Anatole France and this quote should now be whole. Do not confuse the law and equitabilities with what is right (or even worse) with what is sound and actually helpful in life.

Selah.

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/29/2005 7:59:28 PM

pinkpleasures

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quote:

Those of you who are aware of Anatole France and this quote should now be whole. Do not confuse the law and equitabilities with what is right (or even worse) with what is sound and actually helpful in life.

Selah.

Hey Ron..can the rest of us get a translation?

pinkpleasures

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/29/2005 9:00:42 PM

mnottertail

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The Law, in it's majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread......

Written just before the turn of the century as I am able to remember.

And this may not be exact but you get the flavor.

You could say this in french, and it would sound prolific, in fact given a little time I could come up with the quote to ponder in Latin......... that any stupid shit said in latin seems profound ......but I await anyone other than one who has translated my tagline (save frenchpet) to give reason.

I have said more than enough.

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/29/2005 10:00:29 PM

pinkpleasures

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quote:

The Law, in it's majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread......

Written just before the turn of the century as I am able to remember.

And this may not be exact but you get the flavor.

You could say this in french, and it would sound prolific, in fact given a little time I could come up with the quote to ponder in Latin......... that any stupid shit said in latin seems profound ......but I await anyone other than one who has translated my tagline (save frenchpet) to give reason.

I have said more than enough.

mnottertail

Sorry to be a pest Ron...but i still don't get it...what's this to do with depression?

pinkpleasures

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/29/2005 10:07:06 PM

mnottertail

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quote:

As i have said before there is federally funded mental health care in every county, charged on a sliding scale, and to find yours call your county commissioner's office and ask for the name & phone number.

it has to do with this...........

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/30/2005 1:13:23 AM

IronBear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You could say this in french, and it would sound prolific, in fact given a little time I could come up with the quote to ponder in Latin......... that any stupid shit said in latin seems profound ......but I await anyone other than one who has translated my tagline (save frenchpet) to give reason.

I have said more than enough.

G'day Ron,

That tickled my fancy and had me chuckling. The infamous Aleister Crowley wrote in the preface of one of his books on Magick, that he wrote for the man in the street; the bank clerk, the tradesman and the labourer, and then continued to write the introduction of the book in Ancient Greek with comments in Latin. Got to love that sadonic and machevailian humour.

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/30/2005 4:10:04 AM

pinkpleasures

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quote:

quote:

As i have said before there is federally funded mental health care in every county, charged on a sliding scale, and to find yours call your county commissioner's office and ask for the name & phone number.

it has to do with this...........

mnottertail

OOOOOOO, i see. Well, sorry, but few people can pay cash for therapy and meds; and only a select few have adequate insurance. For these uninsured/underinsured people, the county mental health board is a place to go to seek help. It's one of the few federally funded programs i approve of. However, whether seeing your therapist on good insurance or at the clinic, you can never suspend judgment as to whether they are suited to your needs, and you should not accept meds without knowing the desired -- side -- adverse effects.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/30/2005 1:42:12 PM >

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/30/2005 6:08:55 AM

mnottertail

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No, I am quite sure you have miscieved me. I am thinking along the lines of its limited value in most cases. As I have seen it in implementation, it would be like giving a glass of sand to someone thirsty.

Ron

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/30/2005 10:16:48 AM

LacieDoll

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I have read all the replies here. For me personally being a submissive I have often found myself in a mild depression because my deep seeded internal need is to serve someone, be wanted and taken care of. When a submissive does not have these things for a long period of time it begins to take its toll. It is who we are and yet we cannot fulfill the basic things of being submissive. When I am not with someone I don't feel myself. Not that I am unequipped to handle myself, I am very independent when I have to be doesn't mean I have to like it. Some of us need boundaries and rules and when we don't have them we feel a chaos in our life. We try to meet new people and that isn't always easy and as time wears on it gets a lil deperessing.

Just a view from someone on the other end. I don't think its a bad thing because during those times there is alot of self reflection that goes on and growth that can only add when the right person is found. The path to getting there sometimes is just long.

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/30/2005 10:37:43 AM

LadyHibiscus

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From my perspective, I don't see more people suffering from depression in the scene than in the vanilla world, but I do work with the public, so I think I see and speak to more people than many.

I have been clinically depressed my entire life, and looking back at my family history, there is a large genetic component. I am drugged to the gills these days, and it does help with the bad brain chemistry. There are some side effects that I am less than enchanted with, but that's the breaks. Some folks need help with insulin, I need it with serotonin. It was a long hard path getting to the point where I could admit that I had an actual illness, not some weakness that I couldn't overcome by will alone. (what can I say, I adore Gordon Liddy....)

As a pro domme, I have had many contacts with people who want to recreate some kind of abuse situation. (I am speaking of sexual abuse, not age regressing spanko play) I provide them with resources for mental health care, since they really need counselling more than bdsm. BDSM is not therapy, no matter how cathartic or reassuring a scene can be. Endorphins don't fix life, when there is a serious issue that needs to be resolved.

Ms F

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/30/2005 1:45:50 PM

pinkpleasures

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quote:

No, I am quite sure you have miscieved me. I am thinking along the lines of its limited value in most cases. As I have seen it in implementation, it would be like giving a glass of sand to someone thirsty.

Ron/mnottertail

Ron, dear, i'm not old enough to have mis-conceived or conceived You, LOL. As for county mental health boards, i can only say i find them a tremendous boon and if one is not operating properly, activists (like You, for example?) should excersize their rights as citizens or as clients and "throw the bastards out" and get a new director with his/her head screwed on.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/30/2005 1:46:29 PM >

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/30/2005 2:09:10 PM

KittenWithaTwist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: skittles47

I recently joined a local BDSM group and have been talking to friends. I have discoveded a fairly large number of submissives that suffer from depression, myself included. I wonder if this is just a coincident or a trend in the lifestyle. I also wanted to comment on the fact that most counselors consider the Lifestyle as being risk taking, destructive behavior. Many of them feel that our attraction to the Lifestyle is due to abuse as a child. I am interested in hearing what others think
skittles47

Depression effects people of all walks of life-of all races, all sexes and non-sexes, all eye colors, all sexual orientations, all heights, weights, and shoe sizes...I don't think that people who are kinky are any more pre-disposed to depression than any other person. BDSM people are just people, like all other people. There are fat BDSM people, tall BDSM people, BDSM'ers with facial hair, BDSM'ers with freckles...there are asian ones and black ones and white ones, perhaps more to be found in some areas rather than others. There are BDSM'ers in all different types of economic or geographical situations.

Do I consider BDSM risk taking? No. But there are some types of play that are risky. Blood play is risky. Promiscuous sex is risky. But then, so is sky diving.

And identifying as one who engages in BDSM does not mean you were abused as a child. Good grief.

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/30/2005 11:09:26 PM

frillsnfings

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Sessions affect serotonin levels. For someone with depression this can be a positive influence on their mood and general state of mind...assuming it's not abusive. That's not healthy for anyone.

When you 'play', you use up serotonin. Most lifestylers know that depleted serotonin levels is what sub-drop is caused by. During (heavier)sessions huge amounts of serotonin and dopamine is used, causing sub-drop until sources are built up again. A drop in mood..... sub-drop... can be experienced. This also has the effect of re-wiring(put simply) for a depressive state and with a good Dom/me that does after-care and looks after whats Theirs, the affect can be one of feeling more 'grounded' or stable and in touch with oneself.

i read an article on the net somewhere, i'll post it if i find it. Of course, it's not the only reason we session and i doubt it would actually make someone submissive, can't be something your not (no matter how hard some try to be). It might explain why there seems to be a higher pro-portion of people prone to depression in the lifestyle.

Kinesiology is worth a look at. For anyone with depression.

Take Care,

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/31/2005 6:58:18 AM

desirable11

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Frills,
You are correct in that serotonin is launched in play, but it is also launched in sexual activity and in excersize (anther reason it is so damning to be unfit.)
So someone not in any relationship, sitting home in front of the boob tube with a bag of chips, will tend not to be a very happy person!
I have had a sub side of me since puberty, and I was a very happy and unabused child. Grew up in a wonderful and loving home with no disfunction - go figure!
My last D helped motivate me to finish and MBA and run a marathon - now that is the good D/s can do, just wish more Ds could understand it is not just about the kink, but it can serve to elevate both parties to greater depths.
I think as in many areas of life, such as alchohol and drugs, the desperate person who is already depressed, and comes into those things and can become more addicted to the negatives because they have needs to fill that they can't fill from within.

So there is my 2cents sorry to break in, but psych is a keen interest of mine.

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/31/2005 8:11:36 AM

WayHome

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To address the original message:

quote:

ORIGINAL: skittles47

I recently joined a local BDSM group and have been talking to friends. I have discoveded a fairly large number of submissives that suffer from depression, myself included. I wonder if this is just a coincident or a trend in the lifestyle. I also wanted to comment on the fact that most counselors consider the Lifestyle as being risk taking, destructive behavior. Many of them feel that our attraction to the Lifestyle is due to abuse as a child. I am interested in hearing what others think
skittles47

Strictly speaking BDSM does constitute "risk taking" behavior, though not necessarily destructive. Folks that are Bipolar or clinically depressed often crave intense experiences (while also avoiding intensity at times), whether it be skydiving, BDSM, general permiscuity, or horror flicks. This is sometimes called a high arousal threshhold. Those that do have this trait and end up in mental health settings tend to do things like drive too fast, get in abusive relationships, or abuse drugs and alcohol. Since those are destructive behaviors and healthcare workers tend to see these same behaviors over and over again, it's very easy to lump a high arousal threshold together with destructive behavior. Then there are plenty of high threshhold folks out there that don't do anything destructive--Lance Armstorng and just about every successful pro athelete falls into the category of high threshhold. Of course mental health professionals rarely run into them at work.

A sepparate but related issue is the need for chaos. What I mean is that those who grew up with abuse or alcoholic parents or mentally ill parents grew up with intense interactions (positive and negative) and tend to seek out that kind of intensity. This might mean a co-dependant relationship, "Sure he verbally abuses me and sometimes hits me when he's drunk but he also loves and needs me so much and the sex is great"--Go to some AlAnon meetings and you are guaranteed to hear something like that.

This same drive can be fullfilled through BDSM. Hopefully it is then channeled in a less destructive way. Hopefully we in the scene recognize these needs and trendancies and channel them into positive experiences where both partners grow and benefit rather than damage themselves by repeating the same destructive patterns. We all know this is not always true. I recently did clinicals in an inpatient mental health unit. I was amazed at the prevailence of BDSM experience there. It's good to remember that although we espouse a healthy lifestyle and practice, elements of what we do are prevailent in unhealthy lifestyles.

Leto

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