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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/31/2005 1:34:51 PM

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You are right desirable, but there is a huge difference(not importance) between the depressed mood one may feel from loneliness or some other factor, and the crippling effects of chronic depression. Depression has nothing to do with reasons. Many people who 'have no reason to be depressed' are.(though it can be circumstance related as well) It is seperate from everything else in your life. Problems, big or small are not so much a factor because when your depressed you simply cannot deal with them. It manifests itself into feeling physically sick, yet it stems from the mind. And i do not mean that in a 'it's all in the head' way. That is why people die from depression. It may not reveal itself outwardly. Most people with depression get the message loud and clear that they are not meant to feel the way they do and it is unacceptable, which just adds to the problem.

Depression is little understood by most, and probably a good 20 years off from the understanding society shows to something like epilepsy or autism. At least they are recognised as real. There is next to no help available unless you have money... and lots of it. Medications do not work on everyone, and most the time only for a while. Meds often can make a bad situation worse.

Exercise, etc also releases 'happy' chemicals and definitely should be implemented into the lifestyle. The sun can also level out serotonin. So does gardening for that matter. Diet's important too. i was not trying to imply that sessioning was the 'answer' only that it may have a fact based reason why it had a positive effect. Huge amounts of serotonin can be used in relatively short periods of time. Most submissives who suffer from depression do not stop being submissive because the depression is temporarily(which can last for months or even years) or permanently (which is more uncommon) departs . People are what they are. Actually, i believe that submissives who overcome depression embrace the truth of who they are more fully, with more confidence and belief in who they are. i don't think people are submissive because they suffer from depression. Or that their depressed because they are submissive, it is all about being in touch with your inner self. i do think submissives with depression may not be so unusual, mainly because they tend to be more extremists on the whole then mainstream society overall, combined with the general overall personnality traits submissives tend to possess.

:-)

(in reply to desirable11)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/31/2005 2:18:34 PM

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I just want to add my two cents to this discussion. As EmeraldSlave, er, I mean, Lucky Albatross said, people who share a common subculture tend to be more open with each other than with the world in general. So, it's normal that you'll hear more stories of depression because people are just being more open about it.

Also, depression is VERY common. A lot more so than most people think. I have heard estimates that as many as 50% of adults have suffered from some type of depression or anxiety at some time. Many times, this goes untreated and undiagnosed, because people are not comfortable seeking help for their problems. Now, I also understand this number may be high. Deciding who is depressed and who is just "feeling down" is a subjective thing, even for mental health professionals. You can imagine who widely opinions may vary on this subject.

If you consider these factors, you might conclude that depression isn't really linke to BDSM at all. Again, this is a subjective thing, just as determining who is depressed and who isn't. And yes, I know I've just muddied up the waters significantly. But sometimes the "clear picture" just isn't accurate.

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Master Hyde
A self-righteous, poly, dominant, possessive control freak with strong paternal tendencies and a sadistic inner child

(in reply to skittles47)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 10/31/2005 11:21:36 PM

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what a bold first post for me...

I actually found the lifestyle through a councelor for a group for survivors of childhood sexual abuse. I was talking to her about the fact that I felt broken because I had the desire to be dominated and she told me that it wasn't so uncommon abused or unabused. sure enough being brave enough to admit my interests has lifted the depression I was feeling before. no longer broken.

just my wee addition to the thread

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 11/1/2005 12:19:41 AM

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Depression, epidemiologically speaking is as common as the common cold.

Ethically, being a sub should be pleasurable and a source of empowerment. If being in a subordinate position was liked to exacerbate someone's depression I would not go there. I would hope all others would do similarly.

Anything else is destructive, abusive and repugnant.

(in reply to MsIce)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 11/1/2005 2:49:55 PM

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Submissives and slaves do run a higher risk for depression because many go into this lifestyle looking for a cinderella story with a whip added.Do not get me wrong this lifestyle can be very beautiful but its not easy for all.......example..when i first met SirSix72,the Master i currently serve,i was scared to death...scared of me loosing him....i am a proactive slave so i tend to do alot on my own....i wonder what he's doing....i do support poly/swingers lifestyle but from my past i was so scared to do it again since the last Man i served lied to me...all i asked was if he wished to sleep with anouther tell me ....and use protection....need i say he didnt do either which made me fearful of me catching something...so i beged to leave after a night of fighting(physical) and left never looking back.....so given when Master mentioned poly i was scared......submissives/slaves are normaly depressed because of...hate to sound like a B*tch...but because their Masters have issues with the going slow part.Yes Masters are ment to push limits...but slowly...not at the seat of the pants cause then those of us who have been through bad experiences ...freak out and cry like a two yr old...thank goodness for tranxenes....lol sedatives/depression drugs work wonders lol...Well good luck

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Blessed be!

(in reply to MsIce)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/22/2005 3:50:41 PM

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As a dominant who is clinically depressed myself and has asked my (NUMEROUS) doctors about this same issue I can answer (according to the DSM IV as of 2005) that it is NOT considered an aberration

quote:

ORIGINAL: skittles47

I recently joined a local BDSM group and have been talking to friends. I have discoveded a fairly large number of submissives that suffer from depression, myself included. I wonder if this is just a coincident or a trend in the lifestyle. I also wanted to comment on the fact that most counselors consider the Lifestyle as being risk taking, destructive behavior. Many of them feel that our attraction to the Lifestyle is due to abuse as a child. I am interested in hearing what others think
skittles47

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If you can LAUGH at it you can live WITH it!

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/22/2005 4:22:04 PM

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I am a switch. I have been diagnosed with severe anxiety and depression. I have meds and take them every single day without exception. Most of my problems stem from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder or PTSD for short. And that started only a few years ago after I was involved in a work related shootout.

As pertaining to BDSM, since I still consider myself new to public play and association I can offer little opinion. However if one must ask, I would say that yes, I have been in an emotionally abusive relationship with one particular woman before.

I do not look at bdsm as a destructive behavior. In fact I look at it very positively. It allows one to learn not only about others, but themselves. People who are open to new experiences seem to be the best people on the planet.

(in reply to skittles47)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/22/2005 4:36:19 PM

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little1 here: i believe that public awareness of depression, has made it more acceptable to disclose these days.
I work in psychiatry, and its no more prevelant today, than it was 23 yrs ago at the beginning of my career.
What i have noticed is the trend to call a lowered mood, ie. mild depression, clinical depression. The prozac nation indeed.
I dont believe that depression is any more prevalent in the lifestyle than elsewhere.
I do believe that if a true and accurate study were done, you would find it more prevalent in the population that spends time on the internet, rather than livinng life. Less social life, less friends/supports.
And at sites such as these, the emphasis is on meeting someone, ergo, the majority of its members are unfulfilled in a crucial part of their life goals and have come to a bdsm site to address what they have identified as a 'need' that is lacking currently for them.

fulfillment of our needs (not wants), is what keeps us mentally healthy. If your need is for a bdsm relationship, and your single, that's a huge deficit surely?
Well it was for me.
And statistically, couples live longer than singles.

Too many variables in the mix, for me to agree that this lifestyle contains above average per capita depressed people.

little1

(in reply to MsIce)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/22/2005 5:04:09 PM

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i have refrained from making a post here since it started solely because, when i am in a depressed mood and attempt to "reach out" as they say, to express myself, i am met with the term "pity party" and that just closes me up more than i was when i first started.

i have been on every med currently on the market (as i'm sure i have said in some other forum) and have had to deal with therapy...none of which has bneen of any use to me. i am alergic to both Prozac and Zoloft. other pills only work for about 3 months and then my depression is back with a vengence and i tend to avoid people for about 3-6 months unless there's no other way to avoid them.

as far as i know, there is no cure for it. it is something i have to live with and suffer from for the rest of my life.

(climbs down from soapbox and moves back into the shadows)

(in reply to Sirandlittle1)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/22/2005 11:15:27 PM

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if you dont like your life, change it.

there is no mediation whatsoever, that can do that.

(in reply to michaelGA)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/22/2005 11:19:40 PM

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that takes money and that is something that i do not currently have, or being reborn or reincarnated into someone better, either choice would take quite a long time to accomplish

(in reply to pandoravampire)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/23/2005 3:50:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pandoravampire

if you dont like your life, change it.

there is no mediation whatsoever, that can do that.

If "that" was the simple solution, don't you think that most people would follow that advice...if able?

I think that's a case of "easier said than done."

Depression can be due to sooooooo many things (mental, physiological, etc.), and "getting over it," or simply saying to "change" your life, if you don't like it....is not an easy order to follow.

I also don't believe it's realistic to expect a "pill" to change everything either.

For many, it's a hard thing, in the first place to even accept that depression is the issue. Getting professional help may be the first step toward recovery. But, finding the correct mode of treatment can be difficult.

IMO, making drastic life changes, when in crisis, can sometimes exacerbate the problem/depression. One, because many life changes cause stress of some kind (and not always the "good" kind), and two, the changes will not always be the panacea to being happy. Change isn't always good...it's just different.

K

(in reply to pandoravampire)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/23/2005 5:25:08 AM

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Many do use the lifestyle as an outlet for otherwise unhealthy emotions. Many use it as a means to gain a relationship they might otherwise feel they can't have. There are those who have emotional problems and seek a quick fix through the lifestyle. And there are just as many more who use the lifestyle as a healthy natural outlet for their needs in a relationship with no ill effects. We are all a result of our cumulative experiences in this life. Some good, some bad.

Why do so many submissive suffer from depression? Think outside the box for a minute. If you are not happy in the life you live, would you tend to be somewhat depressed? If you don't like the person you are, would you tend to become somewhat depressed? Are millions of people who are not submissive also prone to depression? Who are the submissives who fall in this catagory under that generalization of a fairly large number? Do those submissives suffer from other problems in their lives, broken relationships? (Were they in a vanilla relationship and depressed cause they needed more???) ....do they have weight or self esteme issues above and beyond the lifestyle considerations? How long has it been since they were in any kind of a healthy relationship? Is the lifestyle a quick fix for their failed relationships cause this way they just have to let go and cease to take responsibility for their life and emotions? How many subs are not suffering from depression? What is different about them than the ones who do? Depression is a very individual thing that is based on predisposition, your life experiences, current experiences, job, family, expectations, etc, etc. Do not ever generalize unless its being looked at as an excuse. Then it just don't matter, does it?

As far as councilors opinions on the lifestyle..... Remember that BDSM has only just recently been taken out of the psychology text as a mental illness. If your not talking to a lifestyle friendly councilor, don't expect them to think of us as anything but sick and in need of their help. (This is how they make a living by the way.) If you are talking to a councilor who is telling you that a D/s relationship is risk taking or unhealthy, ask them if a typical Christian or biblical dynamic is risk taking or unhealthy. Unless they tell you that such is also unhealthy, ask them why then since the description of a D/s relationship is almost identical to how the bible says a relationship between a man and woman should be, that it is unhealthy or risk taking???

You are talking about social acceptance of our lifestyle, not clinical right or wrong. If someone has mental or emotional issues, the lifestyle can be just as unhealthy for you as any other lifestyle can....maybe more so if done recklessly. First know yourself and find balance in your own life before you dive in with anyone else in this or any lifestyle choice.

As for depression, treat it as it is.....something that needs to be dealt with yourself, not fixed by another. Got to love yourself and find your own happiness before you can expect to find it with another.

Now once you have dealt with those two issues on their own ground for what they are individually, the lifestyle is simply a choice on how you want to live your happy and healthy life for your individual needs and desires, based on your life experiences, not anyone elses. Why in the world would you listen to someone who has no understanding of it to tell you if you are living your life the right way under those conditions?

Just don't use it as an excuse for other problems. Live it because it is the natural dynamic you thrive in....for the right reasons, not the wrong ones. Those who do live it for the wrong reasons, usually do fall in the depressed catagory because they can't seem to find what they seek in it. This is because most they try to engage in it with see them for who they are and tend to not engage with them for long, seeing something unhealthy rather than good. ...or they simply can't find anyone to engage with them who isn't doing it for exactly the same 'wrong' reasons. Thus the self-fulfilling prophesy (spelling?) and depression problems.

What's my point? You can't generalize something like this. If you do, your just using it as an excuse for one agenda or another.

(in reply to skittles47)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/23/2005 5:37:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pandoravampire

if you dont like your life, change it.

there is no mediation whatsoever, that can do that.

I totally agree with that! Life is what you make it. If you ALWAYS talk about how much your life sucks, that your health is poor, that you are lonely, etc..., your life IS going to suck! But if you speak what you want, ex. great health, good finances, you will receive it. I am all about speaking what you want into existence (sp). I know depression is really tough to battle, but if a person continues to wallow in self-pity, they will always be depressed.

AS

(in reply to pandoravampire)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/23/2005 6:49:10 AM

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this falls under the category of "walk a mile in my shoes" as many people who suffer from depression cannot help feeling the way feel. self-pity is not something that we "want" to feel...and there is no miracle cure for this.

just try living from day to day wishing you wouldn't wake up the next day and that, in all honest, you would not be missed and life would be better without you.

i deal with this every single day of my life. it doesn't matter if i'm working or not, if i have money or not. it is not something that can be controlled and it's the misguided people in the world with the belief that "everything will be alright" that keeps these feeling going.

(in reply to AuroraSilk)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/23/2005 8:50:17 AM

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One of my friends is a nurse/manager and works in the office of a big inner city hospital. The other day she was talking about all the people who work in that office who are on anti-depressive or similar drugs of one kind or another, and basically it seemed like it was pretty much the whole office. I'm not sure what is normal anymore. I know that some would consider me depressed on a regular basis. I know some would consider me to be a victim of abuse at more than one occasion. I know that the woman who awakened me had huge mood swings, and most people would also consider her a victim of abuse, although she doesn;t consider herself one. Who is to say what is normal anymore. Counselors want everyone to consider themselves a victim, and somehow sick, that's their career and job security. The best people in my like always believed I'm OK and you're OK.

(in reply to skittles47)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/30/2005 5:25:14 AM

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As a clinically depressed submissive, how do I better explain depression to my Master? It's not a sad mood that can be shaken off. I can not control the run away emotions and the tears. Oh if it were only that easy to rid myself of this hell.... depressed people do not choose to suffer this agony. Give me physical pain over this mental and emotional torment. Depressed folks more than anyone else want it to go away. As a submissive, my emotions are effected because I do feel much more vulnerable, but how can I not when you surrender your all and lay your heart and soul bare, naked, and unprotected.

(in reply to frillsnfings)

RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/30/2005 5:33:06 AM

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quote:

Give me physical pain over this mental and emotional torment.

I used to say that until I experienced the joy of asthma.

_____________________________

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- Albert Einstein

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/30/2005 5:34:52 AM

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ever notice though how some people try to down-play our emotional state by telling us it'll be alright and tomorrow will be a brighter day? sometimes that is true (to a point) but the feelings still remain with us. people who do not suffer from depression will ever truly understand...hell, WE don't understand it ourselves.

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RE: Depression in the Lifestyle - 12/30/2005 8:10:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

ever notice though how some people try to down-play our emotional state by telling us it'll be alright and tomorrow will be a brighter day? sometimes that is true (to a point) but the feelings still remain with us. people who do not suffer from depression will ever truly understand...hell, WE don't understand it ourselves.

To preface, I know from where I speak.

And, for "most" people, it actually "will" be alright, and tomorrow "will" be a brighter day.

Sometimes, "time" does heal...and sometimes it doesn't! From what I've seen, what "is" true, is that many people that are depressed, wallow in it. It is all they know and they like it there, because it's familiar and doesn't force them to change. There is comfort in remaining "the same," or alone, because it is just that...comforting. It's what they know most.

Too many people, that I know, allow the feelings to remain, out of the fear of changing, or challenging themselves. The feelings remain because they won't let them go, or they don't even try to understand them. Too often they live in self pity and continual self doubt. If they didn't, we wouldn't have so many drama queens (and kings).

Some depression is due to physical issues....some really IS in the head, and much is also due to being too stuck too deep in the past, and to the "poor little me" syndrome to move on to living again. (Again...knowing where I speak from, and one of those people that wouldn't accept "depression" as something "I" would suffer from ever. Also, "never" accepted, until I was "out" of it. Sometimes realization comes retrospectively.)

Most people that I know, that suffer depression, aren't able to let go of the things that brought about the despair. They'd rather remain where they are...because that's what they know, more than anything. Living their life, and being happy, is too foreign, and actually takes work. They can't invest new energy into living, because all their energy is being used to keep themselves down.

This is not a rant, as much as realizing that much of those depressed ARE really there by choice, in spite of not being fully aware of the reason they are there. For me, the realization didn't coming "during" the depression, but rather well "after" I submerged from a horrible place. (Not really THAT "horrible"...but I was just "existing" for a period of time.)

Some internalize their feelings, and shelter themselves from others, and yet others talk incessantly about it. There's no difference, but each remains where they are, without ever moving on. Sad, but true.

Things CAN get better, but there has to be some effort to get there.

K

(in reply to michaelGA)

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